T-Rex bone discovery supports a young earth

[three-sixteen]

Phil, as long as were both still up i guess we can chat a little more…

Yes Phil i am a Kent Hovind fan. But i should say, Phil, that God led me to his ministry. I kept seeing these “Creation Science Updates” on the way walking out of a church i was going to at the time, and i remember thinking, “Creation Science—isn’t that an oxymoron?”

But finally the guy at the table convinced me to check out a few videos and they happened to be part of Kent Hovind’s Seminar series. Phil, i must admit, i was shocked to hear real scientific evidence that OPPOSED evolution. Phil, i remember in St. Bernards Elementary School the ONE day we covered the idea of Creationism. We ALL LAUGHED at the idea and that was it. Kent’s information is fascinating, every bit of it. And he is very smart and funny and not dull as hell like Ken Ham (sorry Ken). i love him and his ministry. But Phil i have been giving my own thoughts and own words. I haven’t been on his site in months, nor watched his videos lately. The only problem with Kent is that…he’s not Catholic

anyhow if this is our last exchange, its been memorable. bye for now Phil

 

[PhilVaz]

Well the truth comes out. You are getting all your arguments from Kent Hovind. I will grant you that he can be entertaining. I have watched and heard many of his talks and debates with various folks over the years.

316 << Phil, as long as were both still up i guess we can chat a little more… Yes Phil i am a Kent Hovind fan. But i should say, Phil, that God led me to his ministry. >>

OK, thank you. If that is your source, you need to find others. A couple of things about Hovind:

(1) He doesn’t have a legitimate science degree. He bought his degree for $100 from a diploma mill called "Patriot Bible University".

(2) Here is information on Hovind’s joke "dissertation".

(3) Many of his arguments aren’t accepted by even “mainstream” creationists. See maintaining creationist integrity by AnswersInGenesis in reply to Hovind.

(4) And his “arguments” for a “young earth” range from poor to ludicrous.

Compare Hovind’s material with the books I mentioned earlier by Kenneth Miller, Keith Miller, and Darrel Falk. There is no question which of these Christian folks is telling the truth and has the facts on their side. Hovind is a fraud. There isn’t a polite way to say that. Do not listen to him. Good night, have a nice vacation.

Phil P

 

[three-sixteen]

dearest Phil,

one last thing, i just realized, i feel like we are friends. You have grown on me somehow, even know we disagree about evolution and whatnot. So i really will pray 4 you when i say my Rosary. God Bless my friend,

love
3:16

 

[CindyGia]

steveandersen:

it has nothing to do with “belief”
it is simply what we know

In having to simply look at the email sent to my in-box with this response, and without the desire to come back to this site to take up this argument, all I have to say to this comment from steveandersen is this:

Simply what you KNOW?

Buddy, YOU DONT’ KNOW JACK!!
Who do you people think you are!!!
You think you’ve got it all figured out!!!
You think you’ve got it nailed down!!!
All God’s mysteries!!!
(Edited ad hominem)

First off, it clearly says in Genesis “God CREATED man and woman” - it does not say God EVOLVED man, and then woman from tadpoles!! God CREATED man and woman!

I also will not allow you “know it alls” to try shoving down my throat that the earth is billions of years old and that dinosaurs existed 100 million years ago before the dawn of man. It clearly states in the book of Job, Psalms, and Wisdom, that dinosaurs were sent by God to destroy the wicked in Noahs’ time. Of course now your argument will be that these “dinosaurs” were Rhinos and alligators, but not so - “Mr. Bubbles” - not so. And I call you all Mr. Bubbles since you are “all” so eager to proclaim being descendents of chimps!

In the Book of Wisdom it says this:

For not without means was your almighty hand, that had fashioned the universe from formless matter, to send upon them a drove of bears or fierce lions,
18
Or new-created, wrathful, unknown beasts to breathe forth fiery breath, Or pour out roaring smoke, or flash terrible sparks from their eyes.
19
Not only could these attack and completely destroy them; even their frightful appearance itself could slay.

Book of Wisdom 9:12 Not that you were without power to have the wicked vanquished in battle by the just, or wiped out at once by terrible beasts or by one decisive word;

Wisdom Chapter 13:3
Now if out of joy in their beauty they thought them gods, let them know how far more excellent is the Lord than these; for the original source of beauty fashioned them.
4
Or if they were struck by their might and energy, let them from these things realize how much more powerful is he who made them.
5
For from the greatness and the beauty of created things their original author, by analogy, is seen.
6
Book of Wisdom Chapter 14:6
For of old, when the proud giants were being destroyed, the hope of the universe, who took refuge on a raft, left to the world a future for his race, under the guidance of your hand.

Wisdom Book 16:18
For against all expectation, in water which quenches anything, the fire grew more active; For the universe fights on behalf of the just.
18
For now the flame was tempered so that the beasts might not be burnt up that were sent upon the wicked, but that these might see and know they were struck by the judgment of God;
16:27 For what was not destroyed by fire, when merely warmed by a momentary sunbeam, melted; So that men might know that one must give you thanks before the sunrise, and turn to you at daybreak.
28
So that men might know that one must give you thanks before the sunrise, and turn to you at daybreak.
29
For the hope of the ingrate melts like a wintry frost and runs off like useless water.

Funny - these giant fierce monsters who breathed fire and devoured the wicked with armor unable to be penetrated, doesn’t sound like some rhinos or alligators to me!! I really don’t think anyways that a herd of rhinos or even the fiercest alligators could destroy an entire population of humans. Neither do they breath fire!

It also says in the Book of Job this:
SEE NEXT POST!!!1

 

[CindyGia]

In the book of Job it clearly mentions dinosaurs, or let’s call them for arguments sake - dragons!!!

Job 41: I need hardly mention his limbs, his strength, and the fitness of his armor.
5
Who can strip off his outer garment, or penetrate his double corselet?
6
Who can force open the doors of his mouth, close to his terrible teeth?
7
Rows of scales are on his back, tightly sealed together;
8
They are fitted each so close to the next that no space intervenes;
9
So joined one to another that they hold fast and cannot be parted.
10
When he sneezes, light flashes forth; his eyes are like those of the dawn.
11
Out of his mouth go forth firebrands; sparks of fire leap forth.
12
From his nostrils issues steam, as from a seething pot or bowl.
13
His breath sets coals afire; a flame pours from his mouth.
14
Strength abides in his neck, and terror leaps before him.
16
His heart is hard as stone; his flesh, as the lower millstone.
17
2 When he rises up, the mighty are afraid; the waves of the sea fall back.
18
Should the sword reach him, it will not avail; nor will the spear, nor the dart, nor the javelin.
19
He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood.
20
The arrow will not put him to flight; slingstones used against him are but straws.
21
Clubs he esteems as splinters; he laughs at the crash of the spear.
22
His belly is sharp as pottery fragments; he spreads like a threshing sledge upon the mire.
23
He makes the depths boil like a pot; the sea he churns like perfume in a kettle.
24
Behind him he leaves a shining path; you would think the deep had the hoary head of age.
25
Upon the earth there is not his like, intrepid he was made.
26
All, however lofty, fear him; he is king over all proud beasts.

Psalm 104:25Look at the sea, great and wide! It teems with countless beings, living things both large and small.
26
5 Here ships ply their course; here Leviathan, your creature, plays.

SEE NEXT POST!!!

 

[Orogeny]

CindyGia:

I also will not allow you “know it alls” to try shoving down my throat that the earth is billions of years old and that dinosaurs existed 100 million years ago before the dawn of man. It clearly states in the book of Job, Psalms, and Wisdom, that dinosaurs were sent by God to destroy the wicked in Noahs’ time. Of course now your argument will be that these “dinosaurs” were Rhinos and alligators, but not so - “Mr. Bubbles” - not so. And I call you all Mr. Bubbles since you are “all” so eager to proclaim being descendents of chimps!

It’s not nice to call the Pope names! From bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm

1. According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the “Big Bang” and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5-4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens. With the development of the human brain, the nature and rate of evolution were permanently altered: with the introduction of the uniquely human factors of consciousness, intentionality, freedom and creativity, biological evolution was recast as social and cultural evolution.

Peace

Tim

 

[CindyGia]

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST - AND THANK GOD THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST HERE!!

The Book of Job also tells us this:

JOB 40:15
15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

The description of the scales is interesting. Several verses describe these great scales. Compared to Leviathan’s armor, iron is like straw and arrows cannot make it flee. Let’s face it, an arrow can do a lot of damage to a crocodile or alligator. This is not a description of either of them—or any living animal we are aware of.
And now for the key ingredient: fire. It is hard to read Job 41:18-21 without realizing the Bible is telling us that Leviathan breathes fire. That alone will eliminate almost every living animal. Yes, there is one animal like that in today’s world. It is called a bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection. Now, if a Central American beetle can do it, so could Leviathan. By the way, crocodiles and alligators are out of the picture on this one, don’t you agree?
Before we leave the topic of fire, there are two more notes you may find interesting:
• The history of every culture is filled with stories of fire-breathing dragons. If you think about it, in all the past ages wouldn’t someone have made up a story of a fire-breathing lion or something? Nobody did because the dragon stories are based on truth, and only “dragons” breathed fire. It is easy to imagine Leviathan as a member of the dragon (tanniyn) family. (Plus, Isaiah 27:1 strongly implies this connection.)
• Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as “gas tanks” for the combustible mixture used to “breathe fire?” Maybe.
Comparing all this information to the description in dinosaur books, you may come up with the conclusion that Leviathan is a kronosaurus. We have heard (and read) other suggestions, but the kronosaurus is the best match of any known creature to the description of Leviathan. - “Taken from Dinosaurs and the Bible”

More dinosaurs are found in Psalms 104:24:25

Look at the sea, great and wide! It teems with countless beings, living things both large and small.
26
5 Here ships ply their course; here Leviathan, your creature, plays.

AND ISAIAH 27:1

On that day, The LORD will punish with his sword that is cruel, great, and strong, Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the coiled serpent; and he will slay the dragon that is in the sea.

So then Mr. Bubbles, dinosaurs are relatively young since they walked the earth in NOAH’S TIME!! They WERE SENT BY GOD to destroy the wicked. You can try all you want sending me link after link of what you deem “proof” that we as humans evolved from one single organism - but I won’t believe it! I will stand by my KNOWLEDGE and belief as a Christian that man and woman are an image of God, - not a zygote somehow evolved to where God said "Hey look! This thing here somehow resembles US!!

In speaking with three nuns this morning after mass, I asked them if they taught evolution in school, since they are school teachers. They looked at me like I was crazy and said “NO!” I then told them of this argument on this site. They told me with great concern that God can choose whatever means He wants to create the world - and maybe the world itself came out of one organism, but that HE DID CREATE MAN AND WOMAN and that as Catholics we should not believe we came from apes, fish, or any other animal organism, simply because God created us in HIS IMAGE!
GOODBYE AND GOODNIGHT!
HAPPY NEW YEAR AS WELL

 

[CindyGia]

Orogeny:

It’s not nice to call the Pope names! From bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm
Peace

Tim

Yes I’ve read it! And over and over again the Pope says - WE ARE THE IMAGE OF GOD!!
He may “believe” that the earth is 3.4 billions years old, but nowhere in that statement does the Pope say humans are evolved from apes!!!

So get over it!

 

[Orogeny]

CindyGia:

He may “believe” that the earth is 3.4 billions years old, but nowhere in that statement does the Pope say humans are evolved from apes!!!

So get over it!

Any idea what this sentence might mean?

However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens.

How does something culminate unless there were precursers? How does that jive with your understanding of man being specially created?

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

CindyGia:

First off, it clearly says in Genesis “God CREATED man and woman” - it does not say God EVOLVED man, and then woman from tadpoles!! God CREATED man and woman!

Again from bringyou.to/apologetics/p80.htm

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution.

You are free to believe what you want. When you jump on those of us who understand at least some of the science, remember that that group includes the Pope.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

CindyGia:

Yes I’ve read it! And over and over again the Pope says - WE ARE THE IMAGE OF GOD!!

One last thing before I have to leave. I agree with everything in that paper (I find the entire document to be incredible!), especially that we are created in the image of God. There is no problem accepting that and evolution unless one insists on a literal reading of Genesis. I don’t. I believe the point of Genesis is to explain why God created everything, not how He created everything.

Peace

Tim

 

[steveandersen]

CindyGia:

In having to simply look at the email sent to my in-box with this response, and without the desire to come back to this site to take up this argument,

If you really don’t want to participate then click the “do not subscribe” option

CindyGia:

all I have to say to this comment from steveandersen is this:

Simply what you KNOW?

Buddy, YOU DONT’ KNOW JACK!!

Thank you for your charitable and illuminating words, buddy.
I’m well aware of the limits of my knowledge but I do** know** that isolated populations will genetically diverge and I know that phylogeny is a fact as much as I know that if I push my cup off the desk it will hit the ground. You may not care for it but that is the way the world works.

The beauty of Creation is that God has given us a well ordered and predictable universe.

I was responding to the often-repeated statement the evolution is somehow a mater of belief; In my opinion that is not so.

CindyGia:

Who do you people think you are!!!

Who’s “you people” I’m just a guy

CindyGia:

You think you’ve got it all figured out!!!
You think you’ve got it nailed down!!!
All God’s mysteries!!!

Did I say that?

CindyGia:

How pompous!! How arrogant!!! How ATHEISTIC!

Yes, in your previous post you mentioned how you think evolution is somehow atheistic. I simply don’t agree. (and I’ve heard of this guy in Rome who also doesn’t agree)

CindyGia:

First off, it clearly says in Genesis “God CREATED man and woman” - it does not say God EVOLVED man, and then woman from tadpoles!! God CREATED man and woman!

Sure and how did He create them? To me evolution is the clear answer.
For a transcendent, omnipotent God a billion years is nothing
Why would you try to force God onto a human timescale? And who is accusing whom of arrogance?
The merest flicker of His little finger is all that would be needed for Him to be completely involved and Creation.

BTW you may want to reconsider your tadpole remark in light of ontogeny

CindyGia:

I also will not allow you “know it alls” to try shoving down my throat that the earth is billions of years old and that dinosaurs existed 100 million years ago before the dawn of man.

Please, you obviously feel strongly about this and understand that I in no way wish to offend you but there are things in the world that have been demonstratively proven 3 ways to Sunday. If I suggested that you wash your hands because of what I know from the germ theory or that it is safe to fly because of the theories of fluid dynamics would that be shoving something down your throat?

CindyGia:

It clearly states in the book of Job, Psalms, and Wisdom, that dinosaurs were sent by God to destroy the wicked in Noahs’ time.

Those are not science texts.

CindyGia:

Of course now your argument will be that these “dinosaurs” were Rhinos and alligators,

Why would I say such a thing?
Couldn’t I just state that they’re literary devices? Allegorical figures?
We’re not literalists you know.

CindyGia:

but not so - “Mr. Bubbles” - not so.

Mr Bubbles?

CindyGia:

And I call you all Mr. Bubbles since you are “all” so eager to proclaim being descendents of chimps!

Oh I see. But you’re wrong. I’m not a descendant of a chimp. Chimps and I have common ancestry.

CindyGia:

…SEE NEXT POST!!!1

Not if you’re going to yell again

 

[hecd2]

wildleafblower:

Alec said, “Sorry about the headache but it’s probably a symptom of unaccustomed THINKING which we all know is really tough. But it’s worth it. Happy the man or woman who can reconcile his faith with science, but no-one said it was easy.”

Your comment isn’t meant to be condescending is it? I’m more than capable of THINKING about faith and science and ‘faith with science’ even if I don’t profess to have a pointed head!

Not meant to be condescending and sorry if it came over that way. Unaccustomed THINKING makes my head hurt too - most of the time I just regurgitate stuff that I’ve thought through in the past, but thinking about new stuff is hard and it hurts just behind the eyes.

Alec
evolutionpages.com

 

[wildleafblower]

Sir Alec, you’re quote mining me! This isn’t the ARN Board. Answer those questions of mine in message #110 Don’t slip slide away. Do you want me to present them to you again? I’ll return later to see if you mastered the art of retrieval.

 

[three-sixteen]

CindyGia you dont have to believe what these guys say or their quotes from certain Cardinals or Popes, because these Popes and Cardinals are not speaking on matters of faith or morals, so it is merely their OPINION–and not binding to our faith. What we MUST believe as Catholics is that Adam were two REAL people and the FIRST two people and that God specially created their soul. We must believe that the universe was created BY GOD from nothing. This is different from the Big Bang theory, which says that the universe started as a very small amount of mass that blew up and started expanded until it formed PhilVaz and Orogeny (sorry guys!).

 To try to nicely fit the theory of evolution around what we must believe as Catholics is not easy, but these guys make their living trying to do it.  It is their little game to feel good about themselves and feel smart.  99% of all Catholic Saints have believed in Creationism and NOT EVOLUTION, especially the two i keep mentioning:  Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich (who wrote the Life of JESUS CHRIST and Biblical Revelations) and Blessed Mary of Agreda (who wrote Mystical City of God).  In these two books, God gives them each visions and understanding of the Creation of the Universe.  It does not happen the way Orogeny and hecd2 and steveanderson say.  I assure you that in their books God CREATED everything in six days and it happened about 7000 years ago according to these 2 great Saints.  Darwin = a deceived loser trying to disprove the Bible and make a name for himself.  Darwin is no Saint!

im off for a week Happy New Year guys (even to PhilVaz and all the rest) GOD AND VIRGIN MARY AND SAINT JOSEPH RULE!!!

 

[petra]

three-sixteen:

dearest petra,

Let me fine tune my position here: not that animals didn’t die before the Flood, but that man did not eat animals before the Flood, nor did animals attack man before the Flood. Things were peaceful between the two. Yes, it was GOD who covered Adam and Eve with animal skins after their sin—the first Sacrifice for sin. We see that death happened IMMEDIATELY upon Adam and Eve’s sin, “in Adam all die.”

Abel clearly killed a lamb during this “harmonious” period. That doesn’t seem very peaceful.

Also this: there is not really a big question about whether or not animals or man ate from the Tree of Life yet, at the time of the Fall. Because, petra, the Fall happened VERY SOON after the Creation of the Universe. Man and animals were both created on the Sixth Day. The Fall happened very soon after, perhaps within a few days. This is verified by the Writings of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich, in “The Life of JESUS CHRIST and Biblical Revelations.” I HIGHLY recommend this book, as well as “The Mystical City of God,” by Blessed Mary of Agreda. Both of these books are excellent and unique (must-reads in my opinion) and fill in the details of MANY events that occur in the Bible.

The issue of the Tree of Life is extremely significant. How do you know when the Fall happened in relationship to the creation of man? The Sacred Scriptures and Tradition are silent about the duration of time between these events. Verified by Anne Catherine Emmerich? What authority does she have to verify anything? With all due respect, her writings are not inspired, and it is unwise to base doctrine upon them as if they were.

What was the purpose of the Tree of Life? I am very interested in your response to this question.

 

[zian]

three-sixteen:

zian,

im wondering, do u guys not have a brain of your own? cant you put this into your own words, or do you always have to give a million links that speak in well-thought-out stylized jargon. When i brought up polystrate fossils you gave me two links that both said (after sifting through the fluff) the cause of polystrate fossils was “rapid sedimentation.”
do you not have your own brain? oh, you want to know about such and such well try here or here or there or how about try this.

just use your own mind and thoughts please. if you had you would have realized that you dont have a good answer to my question. To say that polystrate fossils are caused by “rapid sedimentation” is to imply the possibility of a world-wide flood, and it absolutely goes against the teaching of Uniformitarianism (slow gradual processes.)

so please reply in your own words, your own thoughts and summaries. This is a forum, not a linkathon. thanks, 3-16

Sorry to hear that you don’t appreciate direct and detailed reporting and evidence, direct from those who are best able to explain it. And here I thought I was doing you a favor. Silly me; it seemed to me you had asked for some explanations. Would you really rather have me spoon feed it to you? I think I’d rather have you learn to feed yourself (Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.)

Stylized jargon? More like precise scientific language. Precise language allows for the clear discussion of facts and ideas. Cuts down on the confusion. Try it, you’ll like it.

A little silly to expect that a world-wide flood would be required to explain any given instance of “rapid sedimentation”. Seems to me like a localized flood would do the same thing.

Odd, most people find the links helpful, as they can refer to other sources with additional detail. One of the great values of doing things on the Internet.

btw - it would be pleasant if we coud dispense will the accusatory and mocking 'tude that runs through a number of your posts. In a thoughtful discussion on the board, if we both approach the subject earnestly, we both may be able to learn something.

 

[zian]

CindyGia:

Buddy, YOU DONT’ KNOW JACK!!

Actually, I do indeed know Jack - a good friend of mine.

You think you’ve got it all figured out!!!

Don’t know too many scientists who would make this claim. There’s always something new to discover. However, some scientists do have bigger egos than others…

I also will not allow you “know it alls” to try shoving down my throat

Not me!!!

Funny - these giant fierce monsters who breathed fire

hmm, yet to run across descriptions of actual dinosaurs that were able to breath fire

 

[zian]

And how about a round of eggnog for Mr. Bubbles!

 

[PhilVaz]

Cindy << Buddy, YOU DONT’ KNOW JACK!! Who do you people think you are!!! You think you’ve got it all figured out!!! You think you’ve got it nailed down!!! All God’s mysteries!!! >>

This is extremely sad. We don’t know Jack, but Cindy does know Jack. Jack Chick, the source it seems of her science. At least she wouldn’t have a problem with much of the science you find in Jack Chick comic books. Surprise, Jack Chick promotes Kent Hovind.

PLEASE!!! You people are CATHOLICS, not Protestant fundamentalists. And you are not AFRAID of SCIENCE, yes I am telling you the Catholic Church says it is OKAY to READ SCIENCE. God, the Creator of this world and universe, is the God of truth (Isaiah 65:16; Rom 1:19-20). Pius XII accepted the age of the earth and universe, and said it was OK to study evolution. John Paul II and Benedict XVI both accept evolution as a fact of science. There is no need nor reason to deny it.

Mainstream science tells us the earth is 4.5 billion years old, we’ve known this since the 1950s, and we’ve known the earth is very old well before Darwin. It was Christian creationist geologists that dug up the facts on this for us in the 18th and 19th centuries. We also know the universe is 13.7 billion years old, at least that is the latest approximation. I’ve given the links to this information billions of times in millions of threads.

I’ve listed these books before, I will list them again. By men and women of science, who are Catholic or Christian (evangelicals). They do a good job presenting the science in a non-technical way, and they reconcile mainstream science with their Christian faith. There is no excuse to be a young-earther or evolution denier in the 21st century. The information is out there, find it and study it.

As poster three-sixteen notes, you do not have to be deceived anymore.

Finding Darwin’s God by Kenneth Miller
Perspectives on an Evolving Creation by Keith Miller
Coming to Peace with Science: Bridging the Worlds of Faith and Biology by Darrel Falk

Phil P