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Eric_Olsen
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read what specifically in context?
I see people bow towards the altar in protestant churches.
I see people bow towards the altar in protestant churches.
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Kevirish01
Guest
Eilish,
Please understand, what I was trying to convey:
Christ’s Real Presence in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar is a presence which the Church calls “unique” and “substantial.”
Your posts on this thread seem to imply that when Christ manisfests His Presence to us in other ways (ie: His omnipresence, the priest, the Bible, where two or three are gathered in His name, etc.) they are just as “real” as the Blessed Sacrament.
The Church does not call these forms of Christ’s Presence “unique” and “substantial.” Yes, the Church says that these ways of His Presence “is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too” (CCC 1374). But Mother Church does say of the Blessed Sacrament: “…it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present.” (CCC 1374)
If I misunderstood what you were saying – then I apologize.
Please understand, what I was trying to convey:
Christ’s Real Presence in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar is a presence which the Church calls “unique” and “substantial.”
Your posts on this thread seem to imply that when Christ manisfests His Presence to us in other ways (ie: His omnipresence, the priest, the Bible, where two or three are gathered in His name, etc.) they are just as “real” as the Blessed Sacrament.
The Church does not call these forms of Christ’s Presence “unique” and “substantial.” Yes, the Church says that these ways of His Presence “is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too” (CCC 1374). But Mother Church does say of the Blessed Sacrament: “…it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present.” (CCC 1374)
If I misunderstood what you were saying – then I apologize.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
Just a point…I don’t think most Protestant churches have an alter… maybe Anglican, perhaps Lutheran ??? I’m not sure, but I do know “alters” are for the sacrafice of the mass… (ex. the Catholic mass)
SD
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Eilish_Maura
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The comment was one from a series discussing a statement that the tabernacle is ‘one of the main focuses’ of the Mass and giving it great ‘honor and and respect’ DURING Mass.
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Eric_Olsen
Guest
I understand what was written. I was pointing out that we should genuflect not bow towards the tabernacle. That is one of the things that makes us Catholic.
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Eric_Olsen
Guest
Lutherans and Anglicans do at least and they bow before it which anoys me when I see Catholics do it in a Catholic church.
It’s one of the things that really makes me think lately “why did I bother comming back to the Catholic church if the leaders in this country feel we are all the same when we are not?”.
It’s one of the things that really makes me think lately “why did I bother comming back to the Catholic church if the leaders in this country feel we are all the same when we are not?”.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
It seems to me that by this point in the thread you are against everyone even when they aren’t debating you. I think maybe take a deep breath and forget all the hurtful things you think have been directed towards you.
OK… where do you honestly think the tabernacle should be placed within the Church if it could be any place, a Church that has no space restrictions? Please be honest…
SD
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SD_Catholic
Guest
Earlier in the thread different types of bows were described and there reasons during the mass, as far as the people doing it… I don’t think there should be any reason for you to wonder about the Catholic faith because of what “some” of the people are doing. Perhaps some are doing it without knowing why… maybe ask them… or maybe that tabernacle is in the closet so they feel lost.
I doubt the Church leaders feel we are the same as the other religions, atleast none that I’ve ever seen. You know we’re not and other Catholics know we’re not… so AMEN to that brother!!!
SD
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AliciaCL
Guest
I’m with the folks who think the tabernacle should be in the center of the churh. Over recent years I have seen a number of churches with a distinct Protestant architectual influence. Tabernacles are set aside, church in the round is a popular concept, clear windows to the outside, trees indoors, sky lights, wind mobiles, etc. At the very least it is distracting and I think irreverant. In one case, during a summer children’s bible course, the teachers had a sing-in rally daily in the chucrch in front of the altar whooping and with cowboy theme songs. In another case, a traveling Christian rock singing group set up their stage inside a church and performed during mass and then asked for the hat to be passed. To say the least I find these developments astoudningly irreverant. I just stay away from these churches but others seem to think it brings in a fun element. I just can’t see how it would help anyone actually become more spiritual. The fellowship idea seems to be the thing. Very Protestant. The RCC could definitely take a lesson from the Protestants on fellowship but not inside the church sanctuary. I can’t believe Bishops let some of these things go.
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Eilish_Maura
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You may have missed the point made to down under about the reasons for reserving the Blessed Sacrament and the very specific response made (and referenced in my quote above).
SINCE the reasons for reserving the Blessed Sacrament are for bringing to the ill/homebound/dying and to be available for private prayer/adoration I think all churches should have a separate chapel for the tabernacle and NOT in the sanctuary.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Then I do not understand why you addressed me and not the person who initiated this aspect.
BTW - because of health limitations I make a profound bow before the tabernacle - it is a reasonable accommodation.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
Well if that is your honest opinion then I will also disagree with you… are you saying for private prayer you should go to a seperate chapel? Or build one if one is not available?
I would like you to show us where that is the prescribed method by the Catholic Church…
SD
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Eilish_Maura
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Feel free to review the posts in the thread where this material has already been presented.
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tessi
Guest
I think that if the tabernacle it is in a different chapel, at least, you should be able to find it easily.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
I have and for your benefit I’ve posted them again… I can’t seem to find any place in there where it says the best place for the tabernacle is in a “seperate chapel”… especially if it is not highly visible to the faithful…
Can you honestly say that your suggested placement of the tabernacle would fit these criteria better than anywhere close to the front of the Church where the faithful are focused for the entire mass… c’mon
On another note… I really don’t think the placement of the tabernacle close to the alter takes away from the mass… In the few cases it may happen I’m sure the over riding value it brings to most people makes it beneficial to be in a highly visible place during mass.
SD
***• Readily Visible
General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
- In accordance with the structure of each church and legitimate local customs, the Most Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is truly noble, prominent, readily visible, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer.
Code of Canon Law:
Canon 938
º1. The Most Holy Eucharist is to be reserved regularly in only one tabernacle of a church or oratory.
º2. The tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved should be placed in a part of the church that is prominent, conspicuous, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer.
• In a most worthy place with the greatest honor
Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
1183 The tabernacle is to be situated “in churches in a most worthy place with the greatest honor.” The dignity, placing, and security of the Eucharistic tabernacle should foster adoration before the Lord really present in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar.
• In a spot in the church which is very prominent, truly noble…….
Inaestimabile donum
- The tabernacle in which the Eucharist is kept can be located on an altar, or away from it, in a spot in the church which is very prominent, truly noble, and duly decorated, or in a chapel suitable for private prayer and for adoration by the faithful.(34)
This Sacrament of love resides in the tabernacle! Why hide the true Light of this world (John 8:12)? After all, “No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.” (Luke 8:16)***
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Eilish_Maura
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An separate chapel can be (and has been) done successfully in churches meeting all these requirements AND still not be in the sanctuary or in the ‘middle of things’.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
What value can it add to the Mass?
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down_under
Guest
you just keep ignoring what facts don’t fit the mold don’t you. you were shown where church documents state in so many words that the tabernacle is no longer for simply reserving the blessed sacrament for the homebound and sick. get it through your head. You keep saying this it is clearly wrong. It has been demonstrated to you that it is wrong with references you did not protest. STOP SAYING IT.
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Eilish_Maura
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Your insistence that I am wrong does not make it so.
I will continue to repeat what is truthful on this topic.
Leaving out part of what I have posted also does not make it so.
On the other hand you have produced nothing to support your position that the reserved Blessed Sacrament is one of the focuses of the mass or the requirement that the tabernacle should be within view of the altar.
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down_under
Guest
the fact that no laymen has to touch the sacraed vessels. The fact that the priest himself can put the sacraed vessels with whatever remaining blessed host in the tabernacle himself with no extra handling as is the norm (which has been demonstrated to you already) can only help the people understand the value there in. perhaps even return some of the lost reverence.
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