Take up our cross DAILY?

[SD_Catholic]

It’s probably been used before, but I missed it… Wouldn’t Luke 9:23 be a great vs to show that being a Christian involves more than just a one time proclamation?

Luke 9:23
Then he said to all, "If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

SD

 

[Trishie]

It does indeed!

 

[tobinatorstark]

Great point. I had that verse underlined in my Bible. That is something I have been emphasizing with friends that are part of my church group

 

[notsmart]

The spreading of the salvation message and the gospel depend on it. Christ’s Cross was for propriation. Our daily crosses are to be offered up for the propagation of faith. That’s how I see it.

 

[Christy_Beth]

God has never promised anyone an easy life. The only people who had it made was Adam and Eve. And they screwed up. Since then, “toil and trouble.”

 

[nsper7]

It’s probably been used before, but I missed it… Wouldn’t Luke 9:23 be a great vs to show that being a Christian involves more than just a one time proclamation?

SD

Well, it depends on what happens if one does not ‘take up their cross daily’ and ‘deny themselves’. After all, ‘eternal life’ (the words Jesus uses to describe Salvation) are not mentioned in this passage, only following after Him. He is talking to his core disciples, not the general population.

It would be theologically easy perhaps to claim that this whole passage is discussing Salvation, expecially the next verse, but there are problems with using these verses in such a way.

 

[notsmart]

God has never promised anyone an easy life. The only people who had it made was Adam and Eve. And they screwed up. Since then, “toil and trouble.”

They did, have it “made” yes. But, let’s not forget they too had a cross to bear. They were told they could have everything, except one thing. So, they had to trust God knew what was best in forbidding them of that thing right in front of them. I’d say that was a temptation they had to deal with from the start. They chose not to bear that cross paitently, and they failed to trust God.

 

[SD_Catholic]

Well, it depends on what happens if one does not ‘take up their cross daily’ and ‘deny themselves’. After all, ‘eternal life’ (the words Jesus uses to describe Salvation) are not mentioned in this passage, only following after Him. He is talking to his core disciples, not the general population.

It would be theologically easy perhaps to claim that this whole passage is discussing Salvation, expecially the next verse, but there are problems with using these verses in such a way.

I’m curious to what problems you are referring to?.. because like you mentioned the following verse (which begins with “For” signifying it’s connection to the previous verse) says that losing your life for Jesus’ sake will save your life… I assume that life he is referring to is eternal life…so to me this means that in order to save my “life” I must follow Jesus and take up my cross daily… plus the references he makes to judgement and the kingdom of God a few verses later.

Yes he is talking to his disciples but he refers to “anyone” who wishes to come after him… to me this seems to be the message he wants his disciples to spread to the people.

SD

 

[mammallama]

Most certainly it means that our faith must constantly be renewed.That’s why I never understood those who believe in the “once saved” Christianity.My faith is not a stagnant thing,it must grow.Upon baptism I wasn’t a fully formed complete Catholic,nor was I at Confirmation.Each day each hour,minute,second is an opportunity to conform myself more toward God and less toward worldliness.I confess,there have been days when I chose NOT to pick up my cross and if that became a habit well…then where would I be??

 

[SD_Catholic]

Most certainly it means that our faith must constantly be renewed.That’s why I never understood those who believe in the “once saved” Christianity.My faith is not a stagnant thing,it must grow.Upon baptism I wasn’t a fully formed complete Catholic,nor was I at Confirmation.Each day each hour,minute,second is an opportunity to conform myself more toward God and less toward worldliness.I confess,there have been days when I chose NOT to pick up my cross and if that became a habit well…then where would I be??

Amen:thumbsup: … humbleness is living the truth.

SD

 

[runandsew]

In Romans Paul states:
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

I wonder what is talking about when he writes “provided we suffer with him”?

Is this the same as taking up our cross, or in persevering?

 

[SD_Catholic]

In Romans Paul states:
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

I wonder what is talking about when he writes “provided we suffer with him”?

Is this the same as taking up our cross, or in persevering?

It would seem so … throughout our lives we are faced with crosses that we must deal with… if we fail to take up those crosses and deal with them in the Christian ways that God wants us to, than I would say we are failing to “follow” Christ… we would be straying from the path he is paving for us.

SD

 

[Mintaka]

Of course, He will forgive us if we ask, and so the times we flinch from carrying our crosses can be forgiven.

But the more we take up our crosses, and the more we suffer with Him and in Him to do what He’s told us to do, the more we live in Him and have His life in us. We don’t have to be perfect at it, but we do have to try. Many saints have offered all their small daily problems to Him, and have become more and more holy through dealing with them patiently.

Carrying our crosses is one of the best ways to spend time close to Jesus.

 

[Mark77]

nsper7,

God Bless you.

While I am no biblical scholar, I am sure that the Inspired Scriptures are God speaking directly to each one of us.

Do not over analyze, or read more into the Truth. There is no doubt that each of us is called by Jesus.

“Let any man who would come after me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS DAILY AND FOLLOW ME”.(LK 9:23)

Please don’t make the error that so many before you have and take single verses of the Scriptures out of context.

I once heard a prominent protestant preacher, J. Vernon McGee, say that the prayer Jesus taught us, the 'Our Father", was too simple and that we should not say it? HUH? We still use the prayer today in the Holy Mass.

I am so happy to see that you are asking questions. You are surely on the journey that God intended for you, which will lead you to the fullness of the Truth, which is the Church Jesus founded, the Catholic Church.

God Bless You!

Mark

 

[nsper7]

While I am no biblical scholar, I am sure that the Inspired Scriptures are God speaking directly to each one of us.

While I agree that the Scriptures are Divinely Inspired and authoritative, I think one must be weary of over-spiritualizing in the sense of taking Scripture outside its context (in terms of original audience and culture) and trying to directly apply it to themselves as though the Scriptures are, as some Protestants (I am Anglican, not Protestant) like to phrase it, a personal love letter from God to them. Of course, by the same token, under-spiritualizing, or reducing the Scripture to a bit of historical knowledge with no bearing on one’s own life, is equally dangerous as well. As with many things, a balance is required.

Do not over analyze, or read more into the Truth. There is no doubt that each of us is called by Jesus.

“Let any man who would come after me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS DAILY AND FOLLOW ME”.(LK 9:23)

Please don’t make the error that so many before you have and take single verses of the Scriptures out of context.

Over-analysis is a matter of opinion obviously.

But certain individuals will use verses like Luke 9:23 or Matthew 19:21 as a general counsel to all as being necessary requirement for Salvation.

I should add that the official Roman Catholic position would agree with my view:

EVANGELICAL COUNSELS (or COUNSELS OF PERFECTION) (from the Catholic Encyclopedia).

One must be careful of not improperly drawing a connection between ‘perfection’ and ‘Salvation’.

EDIT:

I am so happy to see that you are asking questions. You are surely on the journey that God intended for you, which will lead you to the fullness of the Truth, which is the Church Jesus founded, the Catholic Church.

Well, I am definitely becoming more and more Anglo-Catholic every day. I accept the Pope’s role as Bishop of Rome and Successor to St. Peter as being truly Catholic (Universal) roles and I recognize the validity of Roman Catholic Holy Orders, Sacraments and Apostolic Succession (although that is a fairly mainstream Anglican view since our Succession traces back to Roman Catholicism).

I am giving consideration to joining the Traditional Anglican Communion (which has left the Anglican Communion and is strongly Anglo-Catholic and should possess, even by Roman Catholic standards, valid Holy Orders through infusion by the Old Catholic Church and elements of Eastern Orthodoxy).

I was meeting with a Roman Catholic Priest and I was discussing my descent into Anglo-Catholicism and I mentioned that the inherent risk for Anglo-Catholics is that “if you get too close to the banks of the Tiber, you might fall in.” He cracked up, but it is a serious issue: many great Anglo-Catholics (including the proponents of the Oxford Movement, such as John Henry Newman) end up “falling into the Tiber”.

 

[SD_Catholic]

I was meeting with a Roman Catholic Priest and I was discussing my descent into Anglo-Catholicism and I mentioned that the inherent risk for Anglo-Catholics is that “if you get too close to the banks of the Tiber, you might fall in.” He cracked up, but it is a serious issue: many great Anglo-Catholics (including the proponents of the Oxford Movement, such as John Henry Newman) end up “falling into the Tiber”.

Then just jump in and swim my friend

SD

 

[Nino]

Yes,Life is rather short…eternity kinda long…forever I guess is kinda long. My favorite President organized the Boy Scouts…he did it because when he left his post as Asst.Sec.of the Navy and went to Cuba to free them from tyranny the US military was in terrible condition…as was many of the recruits…so the primary precepts of the scouts is one: Being prepared…learn to use and not abuse your body,learn how to cook,sew,be independent etc…and the second…help thy neighbor…do a good turn…a good deed everyday…dont tell anyone but your scout troop leader for his records …but do it…go boy go…imagine what a great nation this would be if this plan of action were followed by more,many more…cept so many on the couch being transfixed by the boob tube or by the backyard fence complaining to a nieghbor who is doing the same to you and niether of you taking it to the marketplace…carry your cross means to not NOT be PC…the hour is late…will public displays and devotion to Christianity be outlawed as a 'hate’crime…depends…depends…

 

[nduati]

Actully you have hit the nail on the head. Most people find it difficult to separate themselves(I included) with the world. I mean the act of denying the self and reaching out. For me this is very important.

 

[Crumpy]

My spiritual development has a slow path of progression. I have recently read Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Cost of Discipleship (which gives the Lutheran response to the question in this thread). I believe Fr. Thomas Dubay’s “Fire Within” is a Catholic version of the same (I haven’t read it yet).

People here who feel that the verse does not have general applicability need to explain their views, not simply warn against overly wide interpretations.

Bonhoeffer, for example, sees the essense of discipleship start in Christ’s call to Andrew and Peter, for example, as “come follow me.” This following never ends, to begin with, and it has very general implications and DB points out. Nothing is the same after we respond to the call of discipleship. We are changed in baptism, particularly we are reborn into the new life, a life of suffering in which we constantly are turning away, every day, from ordinary natural desires and ways of relating to the “world.”

Psalm 1, for example, echoes the already-existing idea that a disciple is always meditating on the laws of the Lord. This is a continual process. The 613 commands that the Jews enumerate from scripture point to the daily, continual awareness that takes over our lives. Read Deut 6:4ff and Mark 12:28ff, each for at least 10 verses, to get the idea of total commitment to the Lord.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

I absolutely LOVE that verse. That verse kept rattling around in my head for years. I simply couldn’t get it OUT!

No matter who I went to ( as a Protestant I’m speaking) no one could explain it without going into gymnastics.

That verse is what got me searching again and again until I got here. FINALLY I had rest!

I praise God for that verse - because to me it means you have to DO something if you are to truly follow Him. It is NOT just Faith. There is action involved; denial of self, picking up YOUR cross, following in the footsteps of our Redeemer and so suffering with Him.

How is that compatible with “just believe and you’re good to go!”?

Wow - flashbacks

peace

John