Taking a Non-Catholic to Mass - What should I warn him about?

[Bruised_Reed]

I value ALL Blessings from people… even more so from Christians. God has created us in his image and his likeness… if he blesses, it is only right and proper for his children to bless…

A blessing from the hands of a priest is powerful so I can see why people would want to go forth for a blessing. A priest’s blessing is far and above over a laypersons and recieving Jesus in the Eucharist is above that. I think a layperson can bless another, pray for another but I just don’t see the point of joining a line for that expecially went everyone will be recieving a blessing from the priest in a few minutes. If one is not Catholic that might not resonate.

When the Church is silent on issues of disagreement one cannot assert the Church does not allow this particular action because it does not mention it anywhere therefore it is not allowed (My Bible Only Friends argue the same way using Scripture). This type of understanding can lead to a complete legalistic way of life. A life Jesus does not want us to lead. We are free in Christ!

Am I free to do cartwheels down the aisle on my way to communion? This isn’t meant to be snarky but I am trying to make a point. I don’t think it’s the best example (becuase there are other factors such as being a distraction, scandelizing others that come into play) but I don’t think the GIRM or other official document says not to do cartwheels. That doesn’t mean that it is okay.

How the GIRM is interpreted (prescriptive vs. proscriptive) is not my opinion or preference it is the regular way of understanding Church documents. The church is silent until there is such a time that there need clarification.

Take certain doctrines that are declared. They aren’t new doctrines; they are declared when they are because there is some need for clarification or to counter some heresy. I think the canon of scripture or the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception are examples of this.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The imminent threat of grace.

JSA

:bigyikes:Wait! I hope you meant that to be funny.

 

[YinYangMom]

Sunday Afternoon, 22 October 2006

At this morning’s RCIA class, I asked my RCIA Instructor if our particular Church allowed those with hands crossed to receive a blessing when in the Communion Line, even as an RCIA Candidate. The answer was “yes”, and it was never discouraged. I pass this along as information only, not to stir up more dissension. So at this Church, and this Church only, the Church where I am an RCIA Candidate, I will stand in the Communion line with arms crossed (as in the Icons Of Christ Holy Silence).

Here’s the difference between those in RCIA and youngsters preparing for their First Communion and non-Catholic ‘guests’ of the parish -

RCIA and First Communicants are in a preparation program sponsored by the church…of course they are to seek and receive blessings along their journey, the RCIA candidates receive the Rite of Acceptance as one of the early steps of that journey, as the First Communion kids are moving forward from their Baptism.

Non-Catholic guests are visitors. They are welcome, of course, but they are not adequately prepared to comprehend even the notion of being blessed by a Catholic ordained priest, let alone a lay person. Remember they have trouble accepting the need for Catholic ordained priests in the first place, since most other denominations consider any Christian a priest and that no grace really is transferred through a Catholic ordained priest.

I couldn’t see why any non-Catholic would feel comfortable walking in line with those receiving communion with their arms crossed to receive a ‘blessing’ from anyone. They wouldn’t need it and might even think it odd we’d suggest they do so.

 

[YinYangMom]

Am I free to do cartwheels down the aisle on my way to communion? This isn’t meant to be snarky but I am trying to make a point. I don’t think it’s the best example (becuase there are other factors such as being a distraction, scandelizing others that come into play) but I don’t think the GIRM or other official document says not to do cartwheels. That doesn’t mean that it is okay…Take certain doctrines that are declared. They aren’t new doctrines; they are declared when they are because there is some need for clarification or to counter some heresy.

That’s just it. The fact that Rome has written it is up to the Bishops to address EMC guidelines, and that at least my diocese writes that blessings are not to be encouraged is what separates the topic of blessing at Communion from doing cartwheels.

Enough cartwheels haven’t been done consistently enough to warrant bishops to address the practice formally, whereas apparently the practice of people walking up the communion line with arms crossed has been frequent enough to have warranted enough questions that the bishop and Rome had to think about how best to address it - and they did.

Rome says it’s up to the bishop. Rome didn’t say don’t do it ever, anywhere - though She could have.

My bishop says “not to encourage” it, yet he doesn’t say DON’T do it, and he doesn’t say the parish priest is supposed to address the matter with the faithful pastorally with proper catechesis (as he does about distributing the Eucharist to people who choose to kneel.)

The fact that there are some practices expressly forbidden by Rome (self-intinction, taking up the chalice oneself, passing the chalice on to one another) shows that Rome does rule on such matters. The fact that Rome has ruled it is up to the bishop to determine the norm of communion blessings shows that Rome at least is aware of the practice, that people have turned to her for clarification, and that the practice was not such to warrant banning it outright like the others. That’s why I’m pretty certain Katholicos can’t say church law does not authorize it and that it’s ‘wrong’.

 

[st_michael]

I just don’t see the point of joining a line for that expecially went everyone will be recieving a blessing from the priest in a few minutes. If one is not Catholic that might not resonate.

I can accept you don’t see the point… but there is… as I stated in my earlier postI go up to the Body of Christ not for a blessing but to bow and show my respect and to acknowledement the presence of Jesus in both the Bread and Wine. I bow to both forms. The minister gives me a blessing… some even minister by expressing the desire that I show to receive the Body and Blood with a pray for me to receive the body and Blood through my DESIRE!Although this understanding may not be applied to a non-Catholic. We cannot decern the reasons why some people abstain from receiving the Body and Blood of Christ. We only inform the person of the teachings of the Catholic Church and ask they respect the teaching.

A non-Catholic may believe the Bread and Wine is transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ and yet not fully accept all the teachings of the Catholic Church. Thus, feel a need like myself to show honor and respect to the King of Kings and join the people in the line to get closer to the Lord, while still respecting our teaching that they cannot receive the Lord in the form of Bread and Wine at this time.
Bruised Reed:

Am I free to do cartwheels down the aisle on my way to communion?

Well, each parish or Rite for that matter will have its own standards. I would not consider cartwheels an appropriate way to demonstrate humility. However, I would not be bold enough to state the teaching of the Catholic Church does not allow this, when in-fact the Church has never taught cartwheels is or is not allowed.

If I am not mistaken I believe the Bishop in communion with the Pope and Priest in commuinion with the Bishop has the pastoral authority to clear up matters such as cartwheels and/or non-Catholic receiving a prayer/blessing during communion when the Catholic Church is silent on such matters.
Bruised Reed:

The church is silent until there is such a time that there need clarification.

I agree…

 

[Penitant]

The imminent threat of grace.

JSA

To be honest, I have ulterior motives in bringing him to mass, other than to satiate his curiosity (Thank God for a foot in the door).

Anyways, he came to mass with me tonight and all went well. I didn’t give him much warning (other than that he should not receive the Eucharist), and opted to answer his questions afterwards. He did have a few (genuflecting, sign of the cross, etc) but between myself and a couple of friends who went with us, they were addressed.

Long story short, he said that he would definitely like to go again, but that he doesn’t plan on making a habit out of it.

Again, thank you for your advice,
-Penitant

 

[lak611]

Hey Zooey, this happens to us cradle Catholics too sometimes - some of us genuflect and some don’t, resulting in the odd mistimed incident

It’d be much better if there was an absolutely standard procedure.

I’m a Catholic, and I’ve been mowed down at the conclusion of the Mass already because I always genuflect and a bunch of people just rush out of the church in a massive stampede! :whacky: :nope: :banghead:

 

[Andruschak]

Sunday Evening, 22 October 2006

Went to another church for 3 PM stations of the cross, followed by 2 decades of rosary, follwed by the mass at 5 PM. I asked the Priest, and he said that the practice of blessing adults with crossed arms was a no-no. However, I saw three kids under the age of 7 or so go up with their parents and siblings, arms crossed, and get the blessing. But that was strictly for the kids. I just stayed in my pew and silently said a prayer of gratitude

 

[LilyM]

I’m a Catholic, and I’ve been mowed down at the conclusion of the Mass already because I always genuflect and a bunch of people just rush out of the church in a massive stampede! :whacky: :nope: :banghead:

Wow, that’s bad! Perhaps you’d be best off sitting in your seat for an extra few minutes till the stampeders have dispersed (suppose there’s a good reason Jesus likened us to sheep and goats )

 

[lak611]

Wow, that’s bad! Perhaps you’d be best off sitting in your seat for an extra few minutes till the stampeders have dispersed (suppose there’s a good reason Jesus likened us to sheep and goats )

I’ve since figured that part out!

 

[st_michael]

I asked the Priest, and he said that the practice of blessing adults with crossed arms was a no-no.

I have found with a bit of questioning that a response like “a no-no” from a Priest is not enough… I have questioned my priest on some matters during the Liturgy and ask not for his opinion but the Official teaching of the Church. I realize many Priest may not be versed in actual document knowledge and thus may not be able to present or point the direction for the correct answer. But when ever any person tells me something concrete as “a no-no” then I must ask myself if this is his opinion or actual Church teaching. I press further until I can be sure the Priest is telling me actual Church teaching.

After several questions the Priest realizes if I ask questions about Church teaching I am asking not for his opinion. His response becomes more careful.

 

[YinYangMom]

I have found with a bit of questioning that a response like “a no-no” from a Priest is not enough… I have questioned my priest on some matters during the Liturgy and ask not for his opinion but the Official teaching of the Church. I realize many Priest may not be versed in actual document knowledge and thus may not be able to present or point the direction for the correct answer. But when ever any person tells me something concrete as “a no-no” then I must ask myself if this is his opinion or actual Church teaching. I press further until I can be sure the Priest is telling me actual Church teaching.

After several questions the Priest realizes if I ask questions about Church teaching I am asking not for his opinion. His response becomes more careful.

You realize, of course, that the same approach must be taken when a priest says it’s a “definitely yes”? You still need to ask further questions these days to ensure the answer is not one of personal opinion but one of church teaching.

 

[st_michael]

You realize, of course, that the same approach must be taken when a priest says it’s a “definitely yes”? You still need to ask further questions these days to ensure the answer is not one of personal opinion but one of church teaching.

Amen! I agree… I believe this is the biggest problem of the Church. The ordinary person fogets the Priest is just another person who can error and have opinions… If many would ask for the Church teaching and press the teachers to backup their response with support (Like school) our questions would not be so many!

 

[YinYangMom]

Amen! I agree… I believe this is the biggest problem of the Church. The ordinary person fogets the Priest is just another person who can error and have opinions… If many would ask for the Church teaching and press the teachers to backup their response with support (Like school) our questions would not be so many!

Except that in most of the circumstances, as in this one, Rome is not so clear…whenever She leaves matters up to individual bishops it’s almost impossible to determine what is correct or not.

Bottom line for us followers is to do whatever our bishop tells us.
IF HE IS WRONG, then his misleading teachings are on his conscience and soul. We will not be held accountable for errors made in obedience on good faith.

When we read Rome’s documents ourselves and then place our own interpretation above that of our bishop, then I believe we err in pride and arrogance to do what we determine is ‘correct’ rather than what our bishop directs us to do.

Obedience is key.

 

[st_michael]

Rome is not so clear…whenever She leaves matters up to individual bishops it’s almost impossible to determine what is correct or not.

What is correct is that The Bishops have the pastoral authority to decide for the diocese what is the norms and what is not when Rome is silent on such issues…

Therefore, until Rome makes a decision that specifically states what needs to be done for people who desire a blessing/prayer during communion it will be up to the individual Bishops of their respected diocese.

Obedience must be given!