Taking Allah's name in vain

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Jews use G_d when referring to God. Christians call him God & Moslems call him Allah. All 3 faiths worship the same God though different thinking, but there’s nothing wrong with calling God-G_d, Allah & of course God.
Muslims do not worship the same god. The Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible – one is God in human flash, the other is a prophet. Jews rejected something after their scripture, which I could understand as an honest mistake, but you cannot convince me that following a false prophet knowing that the truth existed in the Bible is worshipping the same diety. Allah in Islam is a pagan god repackaged as the God of Heaven. Allah was worshipped in Mecca alongside other dieties long before Muhammad – by circling Mecca as Muslims do today. Muhammad simply claimed that a pagan idol was the same god as the Christians and Jews have by pretending that the Kaabaa was built by Abraham and Ishmael. No modern archeology remotely places Abraham in Saudi Arabia. It’s a different god repackaged.
 
I was argued out of this position on this very forum. There is only one God; the Muslims worship the Creator and First Cause.

However, their conceptions of what God is like is so far off the mark they appear to be worshiping a different god, even if they are not. It’s a misguided worship seen as glimpses through a forest of shadow and smoke, but it is still worship directed at the Creator. No doubt the Creator doesn’t like the worship, as it contradicts his will, but the Islamic intention is good - it believes it is worshiping God properly. The fact that it isn’t doesn’t say they don’t worship the same God, it says they worship him very poorly, and according to the dictates of man instead of the dictates of God.

Now, about the Isa of Islam being a different man than the Jesus and Yasu of Christianity - I concur fully. Read my first post in this thread. Even his genealogy is different: in the Koran, he is the son of Miriam the daughter of Amram, sister of Moses and Aaron.
 
Khalid.
You rock man.
Thanks for explaining things so clearly.

Its seems that many Catholics get mixed up in emotions when talking about Islam, and haven’t really read the Quran and Hadith in order to see for themselves that sharia and theocracy is an inherent part of islam… which means Islam is an ideological political system, and not just a religion.

There was a great talk on EWTN a while ago by Robert Spencer about Islam… I urge everyione to listen to that.

There are also many other resources that make it clear that the islamic concept of god is in no way compatible with the Christian God.
The only logical stance is to admit that Muhammad was under the influence by a false spirit, and that he was a false prophet, who therefore also worshipped and sought a false spirit, and not the one True God.
 
There was a great talk on EWTN a while ago by Robert Spencer about Islam… I urge everyione to listen to that.
Listening to Robert Spencer talk about Islam is a bit like listening to Ian Paisley talk about Catholicism. You know in advance you will hear negative views. However, what he says isn’t necessarily accurate.

I am sorry that EWTN chose to air his views. I hope they provided some counter balance to his remarks.
There are also many other resources that make it clear that the islamic concept of god is in no way compatible with the Christian God.

There are also many other resources that make it clear that the islamic concept of god is in no way compatible with the Christian God.
The only logical stance is to admit that Muhammad was under the influence by a false spirit, and that he was a false prophet, who therefore also worshipped and sought a false spirit, and not the one True God.
I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear that Muslims do worship the same God as Christians and Jews. However, in Islam many errors are present due to human, and perhaps Satanic, influence.
 
Robert Spencer is actually pretty accurate. Polemical, yes, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be accurate (I read Religion of Peace? and The Truth About Muhammad as a Muslim apologist, so I could issue rebuttals; I’ve read most of his other stuff since then). I have heard him speak and read some of his books, and while inflammatory and uncivil, I have not seen a glaring error in them. As far as popular speakers go, he’s the best around there is: far more balanced than someone like Tariq Ramadan (I call him the “Dinesh D’Souza of Islam”), son of Said Ramadan, close associate of Hasan al Banna who founded the Muslim Brotherhood or any of the other popular Muslim apologists.

Or the worst of them all, the useful fool or fellow-traveller Karen Armstrong - she does blatantly misrepresent the facts, and is like the inverse of Lorraine Boettner, dealing with Islam instead of Catholicism and blatantly misinforming and twisting and omitting - not just spinning - the facts, but in order to make it look good instead of bad (whereas Boettner just made stuff up about Catholicism to make it look bad, instead of good, and was guilty of the same kind of lying by omission).

Ignaz Goldziher wrote some good works on Islam while he was alive, and he was an Islamophile. Edward Said has nothing more useful to say than Ayn Rand. In general, those so-called Orientalists do have good knowledge of Islam, and the Orient: off of the top of my head, I think the best balance to Robert Spencer would be the moderately sympathetic Orientalist academic John Esposito.

When it comes to more rigorous and less polemical (although no more friendly) analysis of Islam, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, Bat Ye’or, and John Wansbrough are the best academics working today, but they don’t do “Islam as Islam” - they focus on specific areas in the history of Islam, as they are academics: however, one can pick up any of their works and be assured of its quality.

Ibn Warraq does a good “Islam as Islam” in Why I Am Not a Muslim, and Efraim Karsh does a good historical overview in Islamic Imperialism: A History (actually nearly completely free of bias and somewhat sympathetic to Islam, despite the title).

And, there is no decent biography of Muhammad around. The earliest biography of him was from 200 years after his death, and is largely legendary. Reconstructing the Historical Muhammad is harder than the Historical Jesus. In order to get a balanced look, I would read two works, one from each side: The Truth About Muhammad by Spencer and Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources by Martin Lings, the most straightforward and unbiased of all Islamic biographies/hagiographies of Muhammad (although it is still a hagiography, elements that are included and are seen by Muslims as points of pride, can often be seen by outside observers as points of evil, such as the cold-blooded murder of the 600 Jews after the Battle of the Trench): it is the most straightforward, “report what is recorded in the traditions” one there is. If you want to go straight to the source, all biographies of Muhammad are based on one source - the Sirat Rasul Allah of Ibn Ishaq (I am unaware if there is an English translation of this), sometimes with various admixtures of additional sunan (reported in the collections of ahadith) thrown in. Only the events that are or are not reported and the light they are cast in differ. The Sealed Nectar is another choice, but is a distant fourth to any of the above. The English translation of it also sucks, reading like a translated instruction manual.

In any case, stay away from tripe such as Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Times by the erstwhile “Catholic nun” Karen Armstrong, which is unabashedly apologetic (more so than even the annotation in the Yusuf Ali translation of the Koran), to the point the sweetness is tangible and sickening and the excuse-making is ridiculous.
 
I think we should draw a distinction. Allah is the Islamic name for the Islamic God. We do not believe in Allah so it would not be blasphemy for us, just disresectful to them.

By the way, the makers of Sesame Street never apologised, as far as I know, for all the times Mumford the Magician took that name in vain. If you don’t remember then message me and I’ll explain!
Yeah, because this was a case where the word just sounded like “Allah”, but it wasn’t actually Allah. This reminds me of the Amun/Amen discussion recently: just because words are phonetically similar, doesn’t mean they have the same origins. If anything, I think they were jokily referring to stage magic word “Alakazam”, which is pretty much gibberish used to divert the audience, and also the “a la” in the names of some foods, ie. “Chicken a la king”.
 
The Song of Songs, 6:13 I believe, includes “machomedim” (most highly praised/desirable) in the Hebrew; Muslims use this as proof positive that the Jews predicted Muhammad by name but covered it up (although “Muhammad” and “Machomedim” both come from the same root - H-M-D - common to all Semitic languages, as they’re both similar Semitic languages, both words meaning, “praised” or “desirable”).

They also use “paraclete” in a similar way. With no textual evidence (except for the forgery of the so-called gospel of St Barnabas), they say “paraclete” is a corrupted rendering of “periclyte”, which has the same sense, or definition, in Greek, as Muhammad does in Arabic, meaning, “highly praised” or “exalted”, contradicting the methodology of their other “prophecy” (the word machometim), and giving no care to context or textual history. Try to replace any instance of “advocate” in the NT with “highly praised” or “exalted”. It makes no sense.

They also use the prophecy of Christ, Moses’ saying, “one like me will arise amongst you”.

These three things are the sum total of the so-called incontrovertible proof that Muhammad was prophesied by name by Moses, Solomon, and Jesus. From listening to an Islamic apologist speak, one would think the Christian Bible was nothing but 680,430 occurrences of the word “Muhammad”.
 
Yeah, because this was a case where the word just sounded like “Allah”, but it wasn’t actually Allah. This reminds me of the Amun/Amen discussion recently: just because words are phonetically similar, doesn’t mean they have the same origins. If anything, I think they were jokily referring to stage magic word “Alakazam”, which is pretty much gibberish used to divert the audience, and also the “a la” in the names of some foods, ie. “Chicken a la king”.
I know - my Sesame Street comment was intended as pure humor. I never heard that any Moslem ever complaied about it.
😉
 
Listening to Robert Spencer talk about Islam is a bit like listening to Ian Paisley talk about Catholicism. You know in advance you will hear negative views. However, what he says isn’t necessarily accurate.

**Really? Maybe you can give me an example of an error he has made? name me just one and I shall be satisfied:) **

I am sorry that EWTN chose to air his views. I hope they provided some counter balance to his remarks.

Why are you sorry? What we need to hear is the truth. Another source I can give you is Mark A Gabriel. I met him some weeks ago in Europe where he was giving talks. This guy was a Professor of Islamic history and a well known man in Egypt. He lost his faith in Islam when he studied the sources. He says exactly what Robert Spencer says. And he was in denial for a long time. When his family discovered he had lost his religion, his dad tried to kill him with a sword and he was tortured in prison. Now he lives in America under another name because there is a fatwa on his life according to Sharia law.

I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear that Muslims do worship the same God as Christians and Jews. However, in Islam many errors are present due to human, and perhaps Satanic, influence.

Indeed this is one place in the Catechism where I don’t agree with the fabulous book. My teacher, a professor who was in the work group that worked together with Ratzinger forming the words of the Catechism as we now have it, told me that she also believes that a mistake was made and that that the structure of that controversial sentence will get changed. I believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church, so I believe that the sentence will be changed. Saying that Muslims worship the Triune God makes no sense logically. I am also sure my Muslim friends would agree that they worship the spirit that send an angel to Muhammed, the hidden author of the Quran, and they don’t worhip the Trinune God.
 
Grace,

I agree with your assessment of the phrasing of the CCC#841, as evidenced by my tongue in cheek example in the signature. It makes no actual sense in light of the real facts.

The professing to do something is not the same as actually achieving that goal.

In the case of mohammedanism, and the passage which the CCC pulls from in LG and NA, the contextual reading is much different from the CCC, and historically nothing is really an issue in light of LG and NA.

The language is problematic and most will not look beyond the CCC, nor will they actually dissect what is truly being said.

In a certain sense, Belloc is correct in classifying it as a heresy. If this is the actual case, kowtowing ain’t helping, and correction must result.

Realizing the alternative, in that while heretical in an abstract sense, it is something totally different: a political means of overthrowing Christendom via cloaking itself in religion. Religion is very low on the mohammedan radar, and only is really followed in the spirit of religion when numbers are low. The resultant reality of majority to total population being mohammedan results in the true political nature of its application.

Whereas Catholicism easily works within many systems, it was never intended to physically take over the world, so much as spread the Gospel; mohammedanism seeks to physically take over the world and spread itself by the sword.

“Allah” in the Christian-Arab sense is fine. We too say “God”. We also recognize the title for what it is: a title, generic, and not specific.

The misapplication, and misunderstanding, that a common noun is not a title, and all things considered, “Allah” of the koran is nothing like YHWH/Jesus, I cannot conclude they worship the same God, nor that any revelation in the same is anything more than a Satanic trick at worst, and the mere ramblings of a psychotic and un-catechized bedouin at best.

Given that it just surpassed Catholicism, I’m going with the cautionary side of Satanic through and through, despite trickery otherwise.
 
Grace,

I agree with your assessment of the phrasing of the CCC#841, as evidenced by my tongue in cheek example in the signature. It makes no actual sense in light of the real facts.

** You are very right. For the Muslim consciously worships the god who revealed himself trough an angel to Muhammed and who claimed that Jesus is not the Son of God.**

The professing to do something is not the same as actually achieving that goal.

Yes. We can say that all people long for the one true God… But we have to take people serious when they say they wordship this or that deity, who is a contradiction of Christian Revelations of God.

In the case of mohammedanism, and the passage which the CCC pulls from in LG and NA, the contextual reading is much different from the CCC, and historically nothing is really an issue in light of LG and NA.

Could you say what NA stands for… LG you mean Lumen Gentium, right?

The language is problematic and most will not look beyond the CCC, nor will they actually dissect what is truly being said.

True… most normal people don’t have a chance of checking the sources… and even scolars are confused about what the CCC says in this area.

In a certain sense, Belloc is correct in classifying it as a heresy. If this is the actual case, kowtowing ain’t helping, and correction must result.

Realizing the alternative, in that while heretical in an abstract sense, it is something totally different: a political means of overthrowing Christendom via cloaking itself in religion. Religion is very low on the mohammedan radar, and only is really followed in the spirit of religion when numbers are low. The resultant reality of majority to total population being mohammedan results in the true political nature of its application.

Whereas Catholicism easily works within many systems, it was never intended to physically take over the world, so much as spread the Gospel; mohammedanism seeks to physically take over the world and spread itself by the sword.

.
 
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