Taking down a poster a sin?

[He_Man]

I would think, yes, it would be a sin of stealing and you would be no better than the person you would seek to shame. Rather, maybe you could post a poster of your own for the movie Bella. That’s a great pro-life movie.

God bless,
Joe

It is a bit of s a stretch to compare the topic creator’s son to a rabid atheist who seeks to destroy God in the eyes of men, and mock God as feeble and senile, angels as homosexuals, and nuns as lustful and weakminded.

That’s like saying cussing makes you no better than Hitler. Big leap there.

 

[TOP]

Because of all the little personal jabs at my son and I, I’m declaring a 30 foot don’t f!@K with me zone from now on. If I don’t like it , I remove from my zone and that includes you. Have a nice day.

 

[He_Man]

Sorry. According to official church teaching, the REASON for taking something (“removing filth from a place which should be dedicated to Him”) does NOT excuse the action (taking something that does not belong to you) so instead of pleasing Him, you are offending Him by your sin of stealing which, as I just said, is not excused by the reason for doing it.

Just because YOU do not consider it to be stealing doesn’t mean that it isn’t.

If your church was running a charitable event and spent money printing up signs to advertize it and placed those signs up all over town and someone took those signs down, would you not consider that stealing? Your church paid for those signes. It gave out money that could have been used for other things in the hope of advertizing an event but because someone took those signs down, your church no longer has the money, or the signs, nor is the event advertized. THAT IS STEALING!

Taking something that does not belong to you IS stealing. The REASON for taking it does not excuse taking it accoding to church teaching.

First off, if it isn’t ANYONE’s property, then it isn’t your property either and you are not entitled to take it. By doing so, you are taking something that isn’t your’s. Secondly, some individual PAID money to advertize something with that poster. By taking it down, you have robbed that person of the opportunity to do so and that person isn’t getting what he paid for with his money. Again, theft.

That is not YOUR decision to make unless you are running the place. If they received permission to put it up, YOU have no right to take it down.

I would inform the property owner. I would not STEAL something that wasn’t mine because STEALING is a sin and sins are offensive to God and Christ’s own church teaches that the REASON for sinning does NOT excuse the sin.

If we admit and call it a sin,and admit we just don’t care, will you let it go? You really seem to care a lot about other people’s heretical anti-God poster removing habits.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Actually, I do get it. I specifically said that regardless of the status of it being a sin, that I didn’t care in this case, and would still do it.

Sin or not, I tearing that puppy down. Get it?

The opening post ASKED if such an action was a sin …

would it be a sin to take it down and throw it away? Thanks, Tim

… Get it? I, and others, have shown how church doctrine teaches that it IS a sin. Get it?

If YOU, after being shown that it IS a sin decide to INTENTIONAL commit this sin because what YOU feel is more important than offending the God of the Universe, then that is between you and God.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Because of all the little personal jabs at my son and I, I’m declaring a 30 foot don’t f!@K with me zone from now on. If I don’t like it , I remove from my zone and that includes you. Have a nice day.

If you are not able to accept the answers, you shouldn’t ask the questions. Do you want people to LIE to you and tell you that it was alright when it wasn’t? Both the bible and church teaching on this matter is very clear – the ends do not justify the means … you can not do something wrong even if for a good reason.

 

[kage_ar]

As trite as it sounds–what would Jesus do? After reading about the incident in the Temple, I seriously doubt that He’d let the posters hang.

Is this wrong? It’s a bit more serious of an example than a movie poster, I think.

Yes, but as was pointed out twice above, the Temple belonged to Jesus. If someone comes in and sets up a GC vending booth in your living room, you would have a right to destroy it.

We are talking about destroying someone else’s private property (a poster) on private property.

 

[Sir_Knight]

If we admit and call it a sin,and admit we just don’t care, will you let it go?

Yes, because that will correctly answer the question in the opening post so that others who read this thread have a correct understanding of church teaching on this matter.

If you “don’t care” whether or not it is a sin, then why are you even involved in this discussion? The opening post did NOT ask what you would do. Instead, it asked whether or not it was a sin.

You really seem to care a lot about other people’s heretical anti-God poster removing habits.

I care a lot about accurately representing what our Church teaches.

 

[He_Man]

Yes, because that will correctly answer the question in the opening post so that others who read this thread have a correct understanding of church teaching on this matter.

If you “don’t care” whether or not it is a sin, then why are you even involved in this discussion? The opening post did NOT ask what you would do. Instead, it asked whether or not it was a sin.

I care a lot about accurately representing what our Church teaches.

You don’t see a difference between prayer and stealing?

Now you are parsing words because you support the cause. Breaking the law, for whatever reason, is sinful. Doesn’t matter if it is illegal prayer, or taking down posters defaming God. You just spent how many posts trying to prove it was sinful to not obey the law, and then sank your own battleship by claiming if it is prayer, no biggie.

Come on, be consistent.

As I said, I don’t have a problem with either, so I am consistent in this case. Even the apostles were arrested and killed in most cases for breaking a “law”; even Jesus was. I don’t see His sacrifice as a sin, since we know He was without sin, nor do I see theirs that way.

 

[He_Man]

Yes, but as was pointed out twice above, the Temple belonged to Jesus. If someone comes in and sets up a GC vending booth in your living room, you would have a right to destroy it.

We are talking about destroying someone else’s private property (a poster) on private property.

Are you sure it was His temple?

He didn’t have many possessions, and I don’t recall biblically or historically anyone showing that He actually oiwned the temple. I could be wrong though, I just can’t recall hearing this before.

 

[He_Man]

If you are not able to accept the answers, you shouldn’t ask the questions. Do you want people to LIE to you and tell you that it was alright when it wasn’t? Both the bible and church teaching on this matter is very clear – the ends do not justify the means … you can not do something wrong even if for a good reason.

I don’t think anyone initially questioned your last sentence; the issues is whether or not it was in fact “wrong.”

The Pharisees lived by the letter of the law, and that really worked out well for them…

 

[He_Man]

The opening post ASKED if such an action was a sin …
… Get it? I, and others, have shown how church doctrine teaches that it IS a sin. Get it?

If YOU, after being shown that it IS a sin decide to INTENTIONAL commit this sin because what YOU feel is more important than offending the God of the Universe, then that is between you and God.

Yes, it is. I’m not really worried bro, relax. Of all the sins I am others on this site have commited in their lives, illegally removing a poster that offends God is waayyyyyyyyy down the list.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Yes, it is. I’m not really worried bro, relax. Of all the sins I am others on this site have commited in their lives, illegally removing a poster that offends God is waayyyyyyyyy down the list.

The saints have told us that every sin, no matter how minute, greatly offends God. Are we not to love the Lord with our entire heart, mind & being? That’s what Jesus tells is the one GREAT commandment! If we are to love the Lord with our entire heart, mind & being; then shouldn’t we do everything possible to avoid offending Him with sin?

 

[Sir_Knight]

I don’t think anyone initially questioned your last sentence; the issues is whether or not it was in fact “wrong.”

If it is a sin, then it IS wrong in the eyes of God where it really counts.

The Pharisees lived by the letter of the law, and that really worked out well for them…

And need I remind you that even though Christ called them hypocrites and a brood of vipers, He also commanded the people to OBEY their teaching.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Are you sure it was His temple?

He didn’t have many possessions, and I don’t recall biblically or historically anyone showing that He actually oiwned the temple. I could be wrong though, I just can’t recall hearing this before.

Do I need to quote for you the many passages where Jesus says that He and His Father are one? If it was His Father’s temple, then it was also His temple.

 

[He_Man]

Do I need to quote for you the many passages where Jesus says that He and His Father are one? If it was His Father’s temple, then it was also His temple.

Well, duh, in that sense Jesus owned the world. Technically, we could argue nothing we have belongs to us; it is all Jesus’s; my house, my family, my paycheck.

I assumed, due to this obvious nature, we were talking in a legalistic sense, i.e. property ownership, deeds, etc.

 

[He_Man]

The saints have told us that every sin, no matter how minute, greatly offends God. Are we not to love the Lord with our entire heart, mind & being? That’s what Jesus tells is the one GREAT commandment! If we are to love the Lord with our entire heart, mind & being; then shouldn’t we do everything possible to avoid offending Him with sin?

Oh I agree. I go to confession weekly, or twice weekly, as I deem necessary. I’d argue we could all affford to go daily, if possible.

I am just curious how the “break the law and sin” notion applies to all walks of life as I referenced with pro-life demonstrators, Priests, etc.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Where? Not in most of the US at least (other than child pornagraphy)

In our public school district, pornography is not allowed on school property. People (teachers and students) who have had pronography on the property have been fines, expelled, lost their jobs, etc.

Much as I dislike the Golden Compass books and movie, the specific poster in my daughter’s school (and I suspect the OP’s son’s school) is nowhere near pornography.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Now you are parsing words because you support the cause. Breaking the law, for whatever reason, is sinful. Doesn’t matter if it is illegal prayer, or taking down posters defaming God. You just spent how many posts trying to prove it was sinful to not obey the law, and then sank your own battleship by claiming if it is prayer, no biggie.

Come on, be consistent.

I am consistent. The last time I prayed outside of an abortion clinic, we had a permit to assemble – no laws were broken and nobody was arrested

As I said, I don’t have a problem with either, so I am consistent in this case. Even the apostles were arrested and killed in most cases for breaking a “law”; even Jesus was. I don’t see His sacrifice as a sin, since we know He was without sin, nor do I see theirs that way.

Are you comparing yourself to the Son of God?

Jesus established a church to guide us. This church, based on His teachings, established rules for us to follow. One of those rules is that the ends do not justify the means. Because we do not agree with a church rule does not excuse us from not obeying it.

 

[He_Man]

I am consistent. The last time I prayed outside of an abortion clinic, we had a permit to assemble – no laws were broken and nobody was arrested

Nice changing of your argument.

Argument 1: You stated that prayer is different than tearing down a poster.

Once I pointed out that the debate was not over the difference in the gravity of the actions, but whether or not a law was broken, you said:

Argument 2: It’s okay if no laws are broken.

So which is it? I assume you are saying, as long as there are no arrests for prayer at an abortion clinic, there is no sin. Which I can agree with.

That just means that those who have been arrested (whether or not the laws were fair), Fr. Pavone included, have sinned, and need to confess this as such.

Are you comparing yourself to the Son of God?

Jesus established a church to guide us. This church, based on His teachings, established rules for us to follow. One of those rules is that the ends do not justify the means. Because we do not agree with a church rule does not excuse us from not obeying it.

I am the son of Wayne, thanks.

I am merely holding up the notion of “break a law or rule and you sin” into the light. Jesus did that a lot, according to the Jewish and Roman legal systems in place at the time. Under this strict, unbending belief, Jesus and the Apostles sinned. Newsworthy for Jesus, not so much for the Apostles.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Oh I agree. I go to confession weekly, or twice weekly, as I deem necessary. I’d argue we could all affford to go daily, if possible.

But if you know something is a sin and do it anyway and continue to do it, how can you claim to be sorry for it? Sins are only forgiven if there is true sorrow and an honest attempt at repentance.

You can commit the same sin a million times but if each time you confess it, you are honestly sorry for it and make a true ATTEMPT not to do it again, it will be forgiven. Otherwise, it won’t.

'Nuff said on that. I have no desire to get into the state of your soul because that is none of my business. As I said, that is between you and God and I have my own sins and struggles to worry about.

I am just curious how the “break the law and sin” notion applies to all walks of life as I referenced with pro-life demonstrators, Priests, etc.

Maybe I didn’t make this clear – breaking a law that is LAWFUL. Taking something that isn’t your’s is stealing. Doing that is breaking a lawful law.

And with regards to pro-life demonstrating priests, they should do what we do around here – obtain permits to assemble … then the police can’t bother you because you have the law on YOUR side.

Works better that way – otherwise people question how can what we do be something good if we are breaking the law to do it. We also get much favorable write-ups in the news media when done lawfully and that will have a more positive influence on people trying to decide between pro-life and pro-choice.