"Taking it to the Church"

[jcrichton]

So your answer to the question is no we can never judge intentions?

I am saying that intentions are abstract and malleable… there’s no way to prove or disprove them as a person can present them as he/she desires; actions on the other hand cannot be taken back or hidden; a person cannot commit an evil/wicked act and claim to have had good intentions.

Also to attack this problem from another angle I put this quote forward from the Catechism:

I do not contradict the Chruch; I support the Church in stating that even the most wicked of men/women can repent, turn back to God and be Saved; conversely, even the most pios and devoted Believer can turn from God and commit to a sinful life and lose Salvation.

You could add fornication, contraception, and homosexual acts to that list as well. There are acts that regardless of the intention or ends that are reached through it are objectively always wrong. For example if you know someone who is married, and you know for a fact that they had sex with another woman outside of marriage you know what they did is wrong regardless of their intentions. Fornication would work the same way. If you know someone is having sex with someone they are not married too, there is no doubt what they are doing is wrong regardless of their intentions. Murder could be looked at in the same way, because the circumstances surrounding killing someone would allow for a judgement to be put forward on whether or not murder was committed.

I cuncur with you; no matter how society depicts it there are acts which are clearly immoral (even if laws are passed to claim different); God’s Way is not the state ways… so while the actions are demonstrative of sin/wickedness we do not allow intentions to guide us as to their rightousness or their unrightousness. But even the most wicked man/woman can repent and turn back to God and be Saved–it is this particular unknown that we cannot judge… this is not to say that a peson can opt to lead a life that is anti-Christ and one day (when youth, health, wealth or whatever is spent) pretend to want to become a disciple/Believer–God sees right into our inner most being!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

In this discussion of judging another, specifically which Church are we to take it to?

…well… if you believe that Christ founded a Chruch and that the your Catholic parish is under the auspices of that Church, your local parish… but note that there’s work to be done before you take that final step: you must determine that there is a sin/sinful act; you must advice him/her of the error; you must seek others of the parish to assist you in the correction of the person; finally, you must take it to the Church–however suspecions are not actual proof and it is the Chruch, not you or the other witnesses, that will determine what needs to be done with the individual who has transgressed and refused to correct him/herself.

Maran atha!

Angel