Taking Notes on the Homily

[Syele]

At Mass this morning the man in the pew in front of me had one of those old taped together, worn-covered Bibles you see frequently in AOG churches where everyone brings their Sword. First time I’ve seen one in a Catholic church, not that I’ve been to a lot of Masses.

You reminded me of a totally off-topic story (Please fogive me, I just have to share). I have one of those old Bibles where the pages are falling out. I have newer ones but that one was always my favorite so I keep using it. One day my 4 year old secreted it into her room along with some tape. She proceeded to tape each page back into it as a surprise for me! I Cried and cried when she gave this surprise to me. I cried because she had completely ruined it, I cried because she did it because she knew I liked it so much and wanted me to be happy. It was so sweet! Anyhow it’s still my favorite copy of the Bible even though I can’t read it (Or close it for that matter.)

 

[MariaG]

I did not intend to imply that Scripture was missing. I only ment Protestant Pastors cite more Scriptures during sermons. I didn’t intend to say that is a good thing or a bad thing, obviously it would be a bad thing if said more scriptures are taken out of context or preached on without it being prayerfully. Sometimes it is better to reflect more on a small amount of scripture than to try and understnad many at once while other times having more makes it clearer. These are only observed differences, not some sort of indictment.

I take notes when I attend Catholic Parishes as well as when I attend protestant churches.

Cite more scripture IN the homily? Maybe. But more scripture is usually READ in the Catholic Church. And since the scripture was already read, there is no need to cite scripture again in the homily that is supposed to be a reflection about the scripture readings.

In the Protestant services I went to for years, it was turn your bible to specific verses. On average a dozen verses were read and reflected upon. More on some days, less on others.

In the Catholic Mass, there is the 1st reading, the 2nd reading, the responsorial psalm, and the Gospel reading. I truly cannot reacall a Protestant service in which MORE scripture was read than even in the shortest readings in a Catholic Mass.

Most of this is due to the difference from Mass and from some Protestant services. And I am not saying one way is better than another. I actually enjoy the “open your bibles” format found in fundamental Protestant churches.

So although it may be an accurate statement to say more scripture is cited in a sermon than in a homily, it is an inaccurate portrayal for those who have never been to a Catholic Mass (not you ) and may not understand how much scripture is actually READ during a Catholic Mass.

Obviously this is a generalization that does not apply to the more litugical Protestant services that have a format more like Catholic.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[InLight247]

Cite more scripture IN the homily? Maybe. But more scripture is usually READ in the Catholic Church. And since the scripture was already read, there is no need to cite scripture again in the homily that is supposed to be a reflection about the scripture readings.

In the Protestant services I went to for years, it was turn your bible to specific verses. On average a dozen verses were read and reflected upon. More on some days, less on others.

In the Catholic Mass, there is the 1st reading, the 2nd reading, the responsorial psalm, and the Gospel reading. I truly cannot reacall a Protestant service in which MORE scripture was read than even in the shortest readings in a Catholic Mass.

Most of this is due to the difference from Mass and from some Protestant services. And I am not saying one way is better than another. I actually enjoy the “open your bibles” format found in fundamental Protestant churches.

So although it may be an accurate statement to say more scripture is cited in a sermon than in a homily, it is an inaccurate portrayal for those who have never been to a Catholic Mass (not you ) and may not understand how much scripture is actually READ during a Catholic Mass.

Obviously this is a generalization that does not apply to the more litugical Protestant services that have a format more like Catholic.

God Bless,
Maria

Good points! You said most of what I want to say.

Following are the comparison between Mass and Protestant’s worship:

The major differences between Catholic Mass and Protestant’s service are as follows:
Catholic Mass
Penitential Rite:
acknowledge our failures and ask the Lord for forgiveness
Liturgy of the Word:
First Reading of Scripture
Responsorial Psalm
Second Reading of Scripture
Alleluia
Gospel Reading
Homily
Profession of Faith
General Intercessions / Prayer of the Faithful
Liturgy of the Eucharist:
Presentation of the Gifts / Preparation of the Altar - We offer our own lives along with the sacrifice of our Lord to Father God, our Heavenly Father.
Eucharistic Prayer
Lord’s Prayer
Sign of Peace
Breaking of the Bread
Communion
Period of Silence or Song of Praise
Prayer after Communion
Concluding Rite:
Greeting & Blessing

Mass is a sacrifice, a re-presentation of the Last Supper according to Jesus’ own words : “Do this in memory of me.” And every part of Mass is based on Scripture.

Protestant’s worship:
Singing
Prayer
Preaching with Bible quotes

 

[AJV]

Good points! You said most of what I want to say.

Following are the comparison between Mass and Protestant’s worship:

The major differences between Catholic Mass and Protestant’s service are as follows:
Catholic Mass
Penitential Rite:
acknowledge our failures and ask the Lord for forgiveness
Liturgy of the Word:
First Reading of Scripture
Responsorial Psalm
Second Reading of Scripture
Alleluia
Gospel Reading
Homily
Profession of Faith
General Intercessions / Prayer of the Faithful
Liturgy of the Eucharist:
Presentation of the Gifts / Preparation of the Altar - We offer our own lives along with the sacrifice of our Lord to Father God, our Heavenly Father.
Eucharistic Prayer
Lord’s Prayer
Sign of Peace
Breaking of the Bread
Communion
Period of Silence or Song of Praise
Prayer after Communion
Concluding Rite:
Greeting & Blessing

Mass is a sacrifice, a re-presentation of the Last Supper according to Jesus’ own words : “Do this in memory of me.” And every part of Mass is based on Scripture.

Protestant’s worship:
Singing
Prayer
Preaching with Bible quotes

Just to note that you described evangelical/fundamentalist, non-liturgical Protestants. Those who follow a liturgical form conform in some ways to the above, some more than the others.

 

[InLight247]

Just to note that you described evangelical/fundamentalist, non-liturgical Protestants. Those who follow a liturgical form conform in some ways to the above, some more than the others.

What I meant is for most of the Protestants’ worship I have been exposed to are what I listed above.

There are different Protestant’s worships I don’t know about.
My apology for not making it clear.

 

[Wendy-Kay]

In the Catholic Mass, there is the 1st reading, the 2nd reading, the responsorial psalm, and the Gospel reading. I truly cannot reacall a Protestant service in which MORE scripture was read than even in the shortest readings in a Catholic Mass.

Not to mention the enourmous bite of Scriptures get during Holy week! For those people that do not believe we Catholics get much Scripture, I would invite you to get a hold of a copy of The Magnificat magazine/periodical. It has the readings for the month for our masses.

 

[crmcfl]

Don’t have to bring a bible to church because we already have them in the pew right next to the missal.

I’m a writer, so I take a notebook everywhere. Sometimes I make notes, but they’re usually not on scripture, which I’ve read beforehand, plus our bulletin always dissects it as well. The notes I tend to take are more along the suggestions for daily living line or historical facts I might want to write about later.

 

[Orionthehunter]

We are participating in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, not attending a lecture or study session! I can’t imagine taking notes at Mass.

The homily is supposed to be based on the day’s readings. So if you have read the readings for the day, you have some knowledge of what the homily is preached on. If something truly strikes you in the homily, it is not out of line to ask the priest if you might have a copy of his homily. True, some give it right ‘off the cuff’ with no notes, but many priests have notes that they are more than happy to share. I have asked on a number of occasions and the priests graciously gave me a copy for further reflection and to share with others.

I think this question highlights a distinction from Catholic and Protestant services as well as Catholic ideas on learning vs. Protestants. I hope that my comments don’t offend anyone as that is not my intent. I’m just trying to illuminate a different approach.

For Catholics, Mass is the culmination of a week of living a Catholic life. Catholic life involves prayer, contemplation, striving toward holiness, and performing corporal works of mercy and charity and learning every day (Protestants are doing the same thing w/ different venacular and possibly different emphasis). But when we go to Mass, it is all about worship as a commmunity, recieving absolution for our venial sins, hearing the Word (plus a short commentary by an ordained minister ala homily), making an offering of our lives joys, pains, time, and treasure to Jesus prior to recieving His Body, Soul, and Divinity.

For Protestants, the Sunday service is also about community worship but great emphasis is placed on learning which is why the Sermon is the center of the service and much longer than that of a Homily.

Then with regard to learning and understanding Scripture, Protestants focus greatly on learning certain verses and learning them well. Much focus is on the New Testament with little study of the Old Testament except as to reinforce the New Testament.

Catholics on the other hand approach the Liturgy of the Word differently. It is actually quite similar to lectio divina*. We are to listen carefully for the Holy Spirit to give us the “big picture” during the Liturgy of the Word. Note taking makes our minds work too hard and might drown out the whisper of the Holy Spirit.

This also highlights the distinction between how Catholics read/learn Scripture vs. the Protestants. I’ve participated in Catholic and non-denom Bible Studies. The Catholic style is much more consistent w/ lectio divina. There is less commentary from the participants and the commentary focuses on applying the passage to their life. At the non-denom studies, there was more commentary and discussion/argument about the “meaning” of a particular versse.

*THE READING or listening which is the first step in lectio divina is very different from the speed reading which modern Christians apply to newspapers, books and even to the Bible. Lectio is reverential listening; listening both in a spirit of silence and of awe. We are listening for the still, small voice of God that will speak to us personally - not loudly, but intimately. In lectio we read slowly, attentively, gently listening to hear a word or phrase that is God’s word for us this day.

 

[Syele]

I am daily amazed at the assumptions and misrepresentattions of my faith displayed on this forum. There are so many just in this thread, I cannot begin to address them all.

Let me begin with this comment about how us protestants mostly ignore the old testament and only focus on certian verses. My Church highly reccommends and prints schedules so that we can all read the entire Bible all the the way through… not once every three years but every year. This year our Pastor even printed out Journals that had the Bible reading for the day at the top and space to write notes under for each day of this year. there were not certian verses singled out nor did it skip anything.

Also, as I said before and was ignored, the worship is the center of the service, not the sermon. Although I can’t for the life of me figure out why it would be bad to learn how to apply Biblical truths to my life. Oh wait, it must not be… Catholics have such teaching as well.

Believe it or not, people have different learning styles and some people will remember nothing of what they listened so carefully to if they do not encounter the material in a way other than hearing. If someone dosn’t want to take notes, I am not going to judge them. Why do you Judge because they DO. I think this is one of the silliest things in the world to get upset about. If you remember things better when you hear them … then LISTEN. If you remember them better when you write them, then WRITE.

 

[Stephen_C]

TS,
If you want to take notes during the Homily. By all means do so. I see nothing wrong or inappropriate with this at all.

 

[MariaG]

Obviously this is a generalization that does not apply to the more litugical Protestant services that have a format more like Catholic.

God Bless,
Maria

Good points! You said most of what I want to say.

Following are the comparison between Mass and Protestant’s worship:

Just to note that you described evangelical/fundamentalist, non-liturgical Protestants. Those who follow a liturgical form conform in some ways to the above, some more than the others.

Thank you Holy Spirit! I had added that last line from which InLight responded to as an after thought. InLight may not have made the distinction, but I remembered to. And technically since InLight was responding to my post, the distinction was made by InLight. Okay that was a reach Just joking around this morning.

There truly is a major difference between the liturgical Protestants and non. So much so that the liturgical Protestants have started to be lumped in with Catholics as the “Traditions of men” followers. High praise indeed

God Bless,
Maria

 

[plato3]

You may also be interested in taking notes from the books that were left out of your bible.

 

[MariaG]

You may also be interested in taking notes from the books that were left out of your bible.

Was this directed at me since it was posted directly after my post?

And since I am a Catholic Christian, this would apply exactly how? Which books do you believe that are missing from my Catholic bible that I need to take notes on?

StephenC. who was the post before me who is also Catholic?

Or was this just a slap in the face of our Christian Brethren in general and Syele specifically who posted before the both of us?

And why is there a prejudice against taking notes during a homily? Because Protestants do?

That is like those mistaken Catholics who would not read the Bible because Protestants do.

 

[plato3]

That was for Syele and truthstalker.

 

[Nicholas_Larkin]

I really admire people who take notes on the Celebran’t homiliy. It shows first of all they are paying attention, & secondly that they truly want to adhere to the teachings and put them into practice!

 

[Truthstalker]

That was for Syele and truthstalker.

How do questions pertaining to the canon pertain to this thread? The thread pertains as to whether it is acceptable to take notes on the homily, if it is even appropriate, or if it is more like talking on your cell phone during the confection. Some argue that due to the liturgical nature of the homily it is inappropriate; others take notes. What is it about the liturgical nature of the homily that would make it inappropriate? The quiet voice of the Holy Spirit can’t outdo the scratching noise of your pen? Should we remember the homily or merely experience it? This still isn’t settled, in my mind, and I would feel funny about being the only one in the service with a pen and notebook. But discussions concerning the canon are really not pertinent. My friendly neighborhood priest gave me a Catholic Bible, so I have those books and am curious to read it all. But let’s stay on thread, shall we?

 

[Stephen_C]

So other then seeing others not doing this. What are your other reservations?
Maybe you will start a trend.

 

[Syele]

That was for Syele and truthstalker.

Well, I think it was pointless rude. I have a Catholic Bible and I have read and taken notes on those books many times. just because I don’t agree on how inspired they are dosn’t mean they aren’t useful. I also read other non-canonical books. But what that has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me.

Your anti-protestant attitude is annoying.

MariaG:

Cite more scripture IN the homily? Maybe. But more scripture is usually READ in the Catholic Church. And since the scripture was already read, there is no need to cite scripture again in the homily that is supposed to be a reflection about the scripture readings.

Let’s see. Wednesday night I attended an Assembly of God service. I didn’t write down all the scriptures read aloud during the service but here are a few of them: Acts 2:14-28 & 38-40 this was read before the sermon began. Then During the sermon he read and spoke on these additional passages (not in order): Matthew 13:16-19; John 18:15-18 & 25-27; John 21:5-6; Matthew 17:24-26; Psalm 16:8-11; A few other verses about Peter which I didn’t take down; and a passage from Isaiah I failed to write down.

He also read each verse where Jesus Raised someone from the dead (Lazarus, Jarius’ Daughter and someone else I think) but I didn’t write down the references. The verses about people Jesus raised from the dead were a tangent he went off on and he went off on at least three tangents covering even more verses. (He wasn’t our regular Pastor who doesn’t go off on extra tangents.) Outside of the tangents I felt it was about the typical amount of Scripture read in a given service.

The Catholic readings for Wednesday (I think) were First Reading: 1 Corinthians 12:31 - 13:13; Psalm: Psalm 33:2-5, 12, 22; Gospel: Luke 7:31-35.

There was more Scripture read at the Assembly of God here than in the Catholic Mass on Wednesday.

So How about Sunday? I go to a different Church on Sundays… that church prints out all the sermon notes with the scriptures printed on it… so taking notes isn’t necessary but there is space to add your own if you like. they tend to read less Scripture aloud than the Assembly of God, But it is still a fair amount. They Read: James 2:14-25 (Also read aloud before the sermon really began), Luke 17:6, Romans 12:3, Galations 5:4-6, James 1:22-25, Matthew 14:25-33

Catholic Sunday reading: First Reading: Wisdom 2:12, 17-20
Psalmsalm 54:3-8
Second Reading St. James 3:16 – 4:3
Gospel:Mark 9:30-37

So this church still had slightly more verses read aloud than the Catholic readings even though it was way less than the AoG. Now as I said earlier, I never said more was better or worse, just that Protestants reading more aloud is my experience.

 

[plato3]

Well, I think it was pointless rude. I have a Catholic Bible and I have read and taken notes on those books many times. just because I don’t agree on how inspired they are dosn’t mean they aren’t useful. I also read other non-canonical books. But what that has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me.

Your anti-protestant attitude is annoying.

Let’s see. Wednesday night I attended an Assembly of God service. I didn’t write down all the scriptures read aloud during the service but here are a few of them: Acts 2:14-28 & 38-40 this was read before the sermon began. Then During the sermon he read and spoke on these additional passages (not in order): Matthew 13:16-19; John 18:15-18 & 25-27; John 21:5-6; Matthew 17:24-26; Psalm 16:8-11; A few other verses about Peter which I didn’t take down; and a passage from Isaiah I failed to write down.

He also read each verse where Jesus Raised someone from the dead (Lazarus, Jarius’ Daughter and someone else I think) but I didn’t write down the references. The verses about people Jesus raised from the dead were a tangent he went off on and he went off on at least three tangents covering even more verses. (He wasn’t our regular Pastor who doesn’t go off on extra tangents.) Outside of the tangents I felt it was about the typical amount of Scripture read in a given service.

The Catholic readings for Wednesday (I think) were First Reading: 1 Corinthians 12:31 - 13:13; Psalm: Psalm 33:2-5, 12, 22; Gospel: Luke 7:31-35.

There was more Scripture read at the Assembly of God here than in the Catholic Mass on Wednesday.

So How about Sunday? I go to a different Church on Sundays… that church prints out all the sermon notes with the scriptures printed on it… so taking notes isn’t necessary but there is space to add your own if you like. they tend to read less Scripture aloud than the Assembly of God, But it is still a fair amount. They Read: James 2:14-25 (Also read aloud before the sermon really began), Luke 17:6, Romans 12:3, Galations 5:4-6, James 1:22-25, Matthew 14:25-33

Catholic Sunday reading: First Reading: Wisdom 2:12, 17-20
Psalmsalm 54:3-8
Second Reading St. James 3:16 – 4:3
Gospel:Mark 9:30-37

So this church still had slightly more verses read aloud than the Catholic readings even though it was way less than the AoG. Now as I said earlier, I never said more was better or worse, just that Protestants reading more aloud is my experience.

I was wondering how you could look up references to 1st and 2nd Macabees, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch,Susanna, and the Prayer of Azariah. Having a Catholic Bible answers my question. Thank you.

 

[MariaG]

Well, I think it was pointless rude. I have a Catholic Bible and I have read and taken notes on those books many times. just because I don’t agree on how inspired they are dosn’t mean they aren’t useful. I also read other non-canonical books. But what that has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me.

Your anti-protestant attitude is annoying.

Let’s see. Wednesday night I attended an Assembly of God service. I didn’t write down all the scriptures read aloud during the service but here are a few of them: Acts 2:14-28 & 38-40 this was read before the sermon began. Then During the sermon he read and spoke on these additional passages (not in order): Matthew 13:16-19; John 18:15-18 & 25-27; John 21:5-6; Matthew 17:24-26; Psalm 16:8-11; A few other verses about Peter which I didn’t take down; and a passage from Isaiah I failed to write down.

He also read each verse where Jesus Raised someone from the dead (Lazarus, Jarius’ Daughter and someone else I think) but I didn’t write down the references. The verses about people Jesus raised from the dead were a tangent he went off on and he went off on at least three tangents covering even more verses. (He wasn’t our regular Pastor who doesn’t go off on extra tangents.) Outside of the tangents I felt it was about the typical amount of Scripture read in a given service.

The Catholic readings for Wednesday (I think) were First Reading: 1 Corinthians 12:31 - 13:13; Psalm: Psalm 33:2-5, 12, 22; Gospel: Luke 7:31-35.

There was more Scripture read at the Assembly of God here than in the Catholic Mass on Wednesday.

So How about Sunday? I go to a different Church on Sundays… that church prints out all the sermon notes with the scriptures printed on it… so taking notes isn’t necessary but there is space to add your own if you like. they tend to read less Scripture aloud than the Assembly of God, But it is still a fair amount. They Read: James 2:14-25 (Also read aloud before the sermon really began), Luke 17:6, Romans 12:3, Galations 5:4-6, James 1:22-25, Matthew 14:25-33

Catholic Sunday reading: First Reading: Wisdom 2:12, 17-20
Psalmsalm 54:3-8
Second Reading St. James 3:16 – 4:3
Gospel:Mark 9:30-37

So this church still had slightly more verses read aloud than the Catholic readings even though it was way less than the AoG. Now as I said earlier, I never said more was better or worse, just that Protestants reading more aloud is my experience.

Okay, you got me. The Protestant Churches I went to never read that much.

But clearly the ones you go to do Read more than even in a Catholic Mass

Your sister in Christ,
Maria