Taking on the famous "list" Part One

[BrianH]

On another thread, there is yet another link to the popular list of Deuterocanoncial references…this is included in it…How can 1st Samuel and 2 Kings follow a book written AFTER them? Thanks. It appears the only explainations are that the author of this list did not know that Sirach was written after 1st Samuel and 2nd Kings or did not care. I am open to other possibilities if they exist.
scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

I am only wanting to deal with these two in this particular thread.

1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the intercessory mediation of deceased Samuel for Saul follows Sirach 46:20.

2 Kings 2:1-13 – Elijah being taken up into heaven follows Sirach 48:9.

Sirach

Written in Hebrew between 200 and 175 B.C., the text was translated into Greek sometime after 132 B.C. by the author’s grandson, who also wrote a Foreword which contains information about the book, the author, and the translator himself.

2nd Kings

Without minimizing the complexity of the process by which this material was transmitted for many centuries, one may speak of two editions of the Books: the first at some time between 621 B.C. and 597 B.C., and the second, final edition during the Exile; probably shortly after Jehoiachin was released from his Babylonian prison (561 B.C.).

 

[Jolly_Joe]

Why would those even be in a list that is labeled “Deuterocanonical Book in the New Testament”? Seems sloppy at best.

 

[wmscott]

You forgot Exodus 23:7 - do not slay the innocent and righteous - Dan. 13:53 - do not put to death an innocent and righteous person. Come on now, is this really the best you can do? Is it the word “follows” that bothers you? Look at it again, maybe a better choice of words would be “coincides”, or “corresponds”, or even “relates too”.

I agree that it is a NT comparison to the DCs of the OT. But the OT is a foundation of the NT. I think the intent is to show how the DCs relate to the rest of Sacred Scripture.

Have fun folks with this one. Peace.

 

[BrianH]

You forgot Exodus 23:7 - do not slay the innocent and righteous - Dan. 13:53 - do not put to death an innocent and righteous person. Come on now, is this really the best you can do? Is it the word “follows” that bothers you? Look at it again, maybe a better choice of words would be “coincides”, or “corresponds”, or even “relates too”.

I agree that it is a NT comparison to the DCs of the OT. But the OT is a foundation of the NT. I think the intent is to show how the DCs relate to the rest of Sacred Scripture.

Have fun folks with this one. Peace.

Can an earlier work follow a later work? Can Shakespeare follow Alcott?
If the author wanted to use other words, they could have. They did not. In popular usage, this list is used to support the use of the deuterocanonical works by NT authors.

 

[wmscott]

Can an earlier work follow a later work? Can Shakespeare follow Alcott?
If the author wanted to use other words, they could have. They did not. In popular usage, this list is used to support the use of the deuterocanonical works by NT authors.

Read into it what you want. I just think it is just a case of Ooooo I got youuuuuu.

It is really a non issue unless you want to make it one.

 

[juliamajor]

On another thread, there is yet another link to the popular list of Deuterocanoncial references…this is included in it…How can 1st Samuel and 2 Kings follow a book written AFTER them? Thanks. It appears the only explainations are that the author of this list did not know that Sirach was written after 1st Samuel and 2nd Kings or did not care. I am open to other possibilities if they exist.
scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

I am only wanting to deal with these two in this particular thread.

John Salza is a bit of demagogue-and he can’t seem to write anything without being full of himself and of hot air.Take it where it comes from-not the best source.
I found the most convincing arguments about the Deutros use can be garnered from archaeology(excellent article on the influence of Hellenism in Israel in biblical archaeolgy magazine) and if tyou look into Judaism- though they may not be accepted as canonical-there is a true respect for many of the books especially Sirach , which was very popular.The negativety that is displayed by some Protestants is non-existant in Judaism.
Despite what some would like you to believe use of Greek scripture, greek writing, greek culture was very pervasive in Israel. The use of early Christians of the Deuteros and LXX
would not be an odd thing but very much in tune with the Hellenestic culture so very pervasive at the time.

 

[BrianH]

BrianH;6164807:

On another thread, there is yet another link to the popular list of Deuterocanoncial references…this is included in it…How can 1st Samuel and 2 Kings follow a book written AFTER them? Thanks. It appears the only explainations are that the author of this list did not know that Sirach was written after 1st Samuel and 2nd Kings or did not care. I am open to other possibilities if they exist.
scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

I am only wanting to deal with these two in this particular thread.

John Salza is a bit of demagogue-and he can’t seem to write anything without being full of himself and of hot air.Take it where it comes from-not the best source.
I found the most convincing arguments about the Deutros use can be garnered from archaeology(excellent article on the influence of Hellenism in Israel in biblical archaeolgy magazine) and if tyou look into Judaism- though they may not be accepted as canonical-there is a true respect for many of the books especially Sirach , which was very popular.The negativety that is displayed by some Protestants is non-existant in Judaism.
Despite what some would like you to believe use of Greek scripture, greek writing, greek culture was very pervasive in Israel. The use of early Christians of the Deuteros and LXX
would not be an odd thing but very much in tune with the Hellenestic culture so very pervasive at the time.

Thank you. I am limiting the scope of the thread but your points are well stated.