Taking risks by rejecting the CC?

[Peter_J]

Well I found this question in a different thread… Someone asked a new convert from the CC whether she / he would know about the risks…
That is where the question sprung up… what risks?

Fair enough … but that doesn’t really answer my question. (“Do you believe that we Catholics are taking risks by not being Protestant? And what sort of risks?”) Or are you saying that you want me to answer your question first?

 

[Janet1983]

Fair enough … but that doesn’t really answer my question. (“Do you believe that we Catholics are taking risks by not being Protestant? And what sort of risks?”) Or are you saying that you want me to answer your question first?

I am saying that I just would like to know what these “risks” include and whether or not that is actual RC teaching or not… And it would be very interesting to know what others think about this topic…
I disagree with any risk assessment one way or the other… There are true Christians scattered over all churches and denominations.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Certainly not.

The OP asked if there are risks in not accepting Catholicism. My point was that if one is going to join a church, Catholic or otherwise, it ought to be out of love for God and not just to “play it safe” and “not take a risk” regarding their salvation.

it depends, since we dont love God by our own ways but love Him according to His ways.

Jesus says if you love me, you obey my commadments. then He says " go into the whole word and teach all that i commanded you."

do you know all that Jesus commanded if you are not in the right Church?

how do you know for sure you love God, if you dont know you are following Him in Truth? keep in mind just because these communities have the Bible, it doesnt mean they understand the teachings of God.

 

[Pug]

Since someone else brought up “risks”, I can’t be sure what risks they had in mind. I’ll guess one of them might be a concern that you probably would be no longer be receiving the Eucharist regularly (or perhaps other sacraments). That would be a concern because of how Catholics understand the reason and necessity of the sacraments. They were instituted by Christ to help us, advance us in charity and closeness to Christ. Sacraments, on account of the Holy Spirit, are designed to enact (I can’t think of a better word right now than enact) our communion with the Trinity. So perhaps the poster was worried you would be harming your journey by not having access to what God provided with the intent to help his people.

Or, given what I know of people who write here, perhaps the concern was that you potentially might be making (might have made) a knowing move to exchange the truth for something else. If they perceive a possibility that you did truly have a suitable amount of knowledge and faith to start, they could be concerned that something resembling a shipwreck of that likely involved some guilt on your part. So they would be concerned to encourage repentance. Also, they would be concerned to have you guided by truth, and not error.

Vatican 1 talks about the faith thing, since you asked for an exact reference. That’s the one thing I mentioned that I think you might want a reference for:15. Consequently, the situation of those, who by the heavenly gift of faith have embraced the Catholic truth, is by no means the same as that of those who, led by human opinions, follow a false religion; for those who have accepted the faith under the guidance of the Church can never have any just cause for changing this faith or for calling it into question.

Please note that merely being Catholic for a long time does not immediately equate to having actually embraced Catholic truth.

 

[Carlan]

Well I left the CC after more than 20 years…

Janet m ay I ask your:blush: age today? Forgive me if you think I am being rude in asking, Carlan

 

[Janet1983]

Janet m ay I ask your:blush: age today? Forgive me if you think I am being rude in asking, Carlan

Well… I’m around 26 years old… I did not count in the 3 years between my infant baptism and the beginning of daycare/kindergarten that was run by the local parish…

 

[FCEGM]

One of the risks in leaving is that of becoming a knee-jerk anti-Catholic - often in order to self-justify one’s departure to a Protestant denomination or to a non-Christian religion or to atheism. Those who embrace a visceral hatred of the Church for whatever reason hurt themselves in the twisting of their minds and hearts.

 

[Peter_J]

I am saying that I just would like to know what these “risks” include and whether or not that is actual RC teaching or not… And it would be very interesting to know what others think about this topic…
I disagree with any risk assessment one way or the other… There are true Christians scattered over all churches and denominations.

Ah, alright.

For myself, I would have to say that I find it a little strange to say “risking …”.

For example, I believe that you, as a non-Catholic Christian, are not in full communion with the one true Church. Note that I did not say “you are risking not being in full communion with the one true Church”. I guess I can see how some people might put it that way, but to me personally that just seems a strange thing to say.

 

[Peter_J]

P.S. A thought just occurred to me … perhaps this whole “risks of not being Catholic” thing was meant as a variation of Pascal’s Wager. Sort of like, Suppose you don’t know what the RCC is the one true Church or not, but you can figure that if it is then your risks/rewards for being in it or not being in it would be such-and-such, etc.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Janet No denomination or Church will save you,but why would any one leave the Church stated By Our Lord Jesus Christ and Why leave the Church that got the Infallible teaching Church and the one with Apostolic Succssion and the Sacraments of the Church, Going from Cathloic to protestants is like going from a 4 stars restaurant and going to a diner and paying 25 bucks for a steak.Its just is not worth it and get frys with you steak at no charge,

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

So the Orthodox aren’t schismatic anymore, huh. I guess Leo XIII was way out of line when he wrote to them asking them to return to the Catholic Church.

Not according to JP2 - he, not the OP, called them the “Church’s other lung”. That sort of idiocy is of the Vatican’s making - no one else’s, & certainly not the OP’s.​

From Redemptoris Mater 34:

• 1. Such a wealth of praise, built up by the different forms of the Church’s great tradition, could help us to hasten the day when the Church can begin once more to breathe fully with her “two lungs,” the East and the West. As I have often said, this is more than ever necessary today. It would be an effective aid in furthering the progress of the dialogue already taking place between the Catholic Church and the Churches and Ecclesial Communities of the West.86 It would also be the way for the pilgrim Church to sing and to live more perfectly her “Magnificat.”
• [http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0224/__P7.HTM (http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0224/__P7.HTM)

**Aidan Nichols OP speaks to the FiF Assembly 2002
**
The other lung

This, I might add, should be on the understanding that the Church of Peter and Paul does not wish the West to breathe without the East, without that ‘other lung’ in the metaphor of the Dominican ecclesiologist Yves Congar. ‘The other lung’ is a phrase which the present Holy Father has often repeated, and indeed turned into action, not least in promulgating the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church much of which, as has been said, reads as if written in Constantinople. With this other Anglicanism the ecumenical road is, by any reasonable assessment, shorter and more secure.

Hard decisions lie ahead of you. The Rome that sent Augustine, Hadrian and Theodore, an Italian, an African and a Greek, to England still shows, despite or because of cosmopolitanism, a motherly solicitude for you. But behind a Church-mother there stands, even more importantly, the Mother of the Church.

• [A Mother (A Mother)

 

[Religio71]

Not according to JP2 - he, not the OP, called them the “Church’s other lung”. That sort of idiocy is of the Vatican’s making - no one else’s, & certainly not the OP’s.​

From Redemptoris Mater 34:

• 1. Such a wealth of praise, built up by the different forms of the Church’s great tradition, could help us to hasten the day when the Church can begin once more to breathe fully with her “two lungs,” the East and the West. As I have often said, this is more than ever necessary today. It would be an effective aid in furthering the progress of the dialogue already taking place between the Catholic Church and the Churches and Ecclesial Communities of the West.86 It would also be the way for the pilgrim Church to sing and to live more perfectly her “Magnificat.”
• [http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0224/__P7.HTM (http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0224/__P7.HTM)

Aidan Nichols OP speaks to the FiF Assembly 2002

The other lung

This, I might add, should be on the understanding that the Church of Peter and Paul does not wish the West to breathe without the East, without that ‘other lung’ in the metaphor of the Dominican ecclesiologist Yves Congar. ‘The other lung’ is a phrase which the present Holy Father has often repeated, and indeed turned into action, not least in promulgating the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church much of which, as has been said, reads as if written in Constantinople. With this other Anglicanism the ecumenical road is, by any reasonable assessment, shorter and more secure.

Hard decisions lie ahead of you. The Rome that sent Augustine, Hadrian and Theodore, an Italian, an African and a Greek, to England still shows, despite or because of cosmopolitanism, a motherly solicitude for you. But behind a Church-mother there stands, even more importantly, the Mother of the Church.

• [A Mother (A Mother)

Weren’t you the one that said this:

Besides, JP2 is rotting in his grave - he’s no longer Pope, any more than Benedict XIV or Clement XII is. So what he might like or dislike is neither here nor there.

Anyway, the Orthodox Church is still seen as schismatic, and this is clear for the simple fact that they do not accept the authority of the Bishop of Rome. The Church currently breathes with both lungs; We have the Roman Catholic church and the Eastern Catholic churches. Orthodoxy is the other lung when they are in union with us. We already have Eastern Catholics. The hope is that the rest of Orthodoxy will follow.

 

[LilyM]

Uh, GOG, I suppose it hasn’t occured to you that your posted remarks were probably speaking of the Eastern CATHOLIC Churches - the leaders of which haven’t always been palsy-walsy with the Popes and their brothers of the Latin ‘lung’, and have often felt (and rightly so) somewhat overlooked and ignored by Rome?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I admit it… sometimes curiosity gets the best of me and I go off-topic… Same just happened in a thread and I so would like to hear a couple of opinions from Catholics and Non-Catholics on this one…
I really couldn’t help it…

I know this is a little bit touchy, but I’d just like to know what you think in a healthy debate…
The thread this was taken from was not mine so I decided to keep that one on its topic and ask this question in a new thread…

What kind of risks should there be involved in converting away from Catholicism? Are there any? (You know I highly doubt that, but what do you think?)
Are the risks higher for someone who did live a Catholic life for a long time?

What do you think?
What do you think the opinion of the CC is about that? Where could I find that exactly if they do have any opinion on the subject?

In Him,
Janet

If you leave the Catholic Church one has placed themselves outside the New Covenant in Jesus body and blood. One outside can hope and pray for faith only to save them for that is all they got besides the Bible by itself which cannot save no one, because these fallen away catholics are outside the body of Jesus Christ in his New and everlasting covenant.

Well like every single covenant God made with his people since creation, Abraham, Moses, David and now Jesus; came with both blessings and cursings.

Jesus fulfilled the old covenant by instituting the New and everlasting covenant in his body and blood. Luke 22:20 where it is clearly stated by Jesus.

Now every Catholic that has everlived, believed in and practiced the sacramental divine economy of God, in this New Covenant established by Jesus and practiced it to the fullest, as still practiced today in every Catholic church, these past 2000 years unchanged.

St. Paul reveals the curse to those that live out the New Covenant in Jesus body and blood once and for all sacrifice here I will post the risks for excatholics from scripture; Just to inform excatholics the Church practices this biblical teaching, she did not invent it. Also consider reading John 6:53… and each gospel last supper account.

1 Corinthians 11:23
11 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24
and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27
**Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. **12
28
A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29
**For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.
30
That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.
31
If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; **

This may be one risk to consider if you were ever practicing the 2000 year old Christian faith in the Catholic Church which is the body of Jesus Christ?

P.S before you give these scripture a symbolic non catholic 19th century interpretation, one catholic to another baptised catholic, it may do you good to research what the early Church fathers believed and taught about the Eucharist way before any other christian man made thelogies came on the scene 1500 years later after the resurrection.

Peace be with you

 

[Javl]

As I understand it Catholics consider it a mortal sin to leave the Catholic Church. It would seem as if the belief is that it doesn’t matter if one leaves for Islam, Jehovah Witness, LDS,Satanism, Hindu or mainline Protestant you are still in that state of mortal sin. Other Christians are accepted as it is believed that it would be easier to get them to join a Catholic fellowship then say a Scientologist.

Is that what is believed? When does one become Catholic so to choose another makes him a mortal sinner in the Church’s eye? When his parents have him Baptised? If he goes through first communion? Confirmation? When she just studied the Catholic Church but did not join as she rejected some of her teachings?

I don’t know who told you, but it is NOT a mortal sin to leave the CC. But as I explained in my post above, I believe that you do risk salvation ( although only God knows who is saved ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[4Squarebaby]

I don’t know who told you, but it is NOT a mortal sin to leave the CC. But as I explained in my post above, I believe that you do risk salvation ( although only God knows who is saved ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

That I heard on this site when I asked the question directly is it a mortal sin to leave the church. It is often backed up in discussions about atending weddings of family members who converted to other faith communities. Can one attend, if they attend can they be an usher for example.

Edit to add:
How can it not be a mortal sin if it is a mortal sin to miss a weekly mass?

 

[Bill_Pick]

That I heard on this site when I asked the question directly is it a mortal sin to leave the church. It is often backed up in discussions about atending weddings of family members who converted to other faith communities. Can one attend, if they attend can they be an usher for example.

Edit to add:
How can it not be a mortal sin if it is a mortal sin to miss a weekly mass?

The Cathloic Church has many Mass you can always find the time to get to mass and it is not a mortal sin to miss a weekly mass,Dont know where you got that

 

[Madaglan]

Leaving the RCC and becoming Orthodox was a gradual process. It came to the point that I felt that I had to decide between making a change of sui iurus Church or becoming Orthodox. I had read the Orthodox Word and other Orthodox books, and I discerned great holiness, wisdom and humility in the lives of the saints. I read the works of Archbishop Elias Zoghby as well, which I found helpful in discerning where I should go. At the same time, I was studying Latin Catholic theology, and over time I felt that I belonged elsewhere. I didn’t know if it were Eastern Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or even Lutheranism. Lutheranism because through personal experiences of health it became extremely difficult for me to see my thoughts and actions as free. Probably difficult for most people to understand.

In becoming Orthodox, I was aware of the gravity of my decision, but ultimately I felt that what I did was the right thing. It was more than an intellectual decision.

 

[Wildkit]

Well… I’m around 26 years old… I did not count in the 3 years between my infant baptism and the beginning of daycare/kindergarten that was run by the local parish…

Janet:

Did you select your “Christian Church” because you enjoyed the style, the preaching that you heard from that particular corner church? Was/is he a good speaker? Would that surprise anyone? Did you hear the things you wanted to hear? Did you come to understand from folks around you that “it is the Bible” and your interpretation?

You are not alone in this world.

My oldest son is your age and is not Catholic yet. My son has not rejected the CC, but hopefully my example will move him in that direction.

Pray for me!

 

[mark_a]

I admit it… sometimes curiosity gets the best of me and I go off-topic… Same just happened in a thread and I so would like to hear a couple of opinions from Catholics and Non-Catholics on this one…
I really couldn’t help it…

I know this is a little bit touchy, but I’d just like to know what you think in a healthy debate…
The thread this was taken from was not mine so I decided to keep that one on its topic and ask this question in a new thread…

What kind of risks should there be involved in converting away from Catholicism? Are there any? (You know I highly doubt that, but what do you think?)
Are the risks higher for someone who did live a Catholic life for a long time?

What do you think?
What do you think the opinion of the CC is about that? Where could I find that exactly if they do have any opinion on the subject?

In Him,
Janet

Janet,

This is my opinion only:

One must not make excuses for lax moral behavior or focus hatred toward the Catholic Church for speaking the truth about difficult personal situations.

If one cannot accept the properly understood teachings of the Catholic Church, one should not be in it. God will provide extrordinary salvation.