Taking Sacrament Outside

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George789

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I am not sure what to call this but here is the story. I went to Church this morning and everything seemed well with one exception. I don’t think the priest began the mass with, “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.
I noticed that when the priest consecrated the host there was an extra chalice on the altar. After distributing the sacred host the priest placed the chalice in the tabernacle. This all seemed ok to me. After the mass ended I usually sit and pray a prayer of thanksgiving but as I was doing this a sister went up to the tabernacle and took the chalice out and proceeded to carry it outside the into the vestibule. I felt uncomfortable at this point so I began to leave. As I was leaving I noticed that the sister took the chalice outside into the rain. My question: Is this a liturgical abuse? Am I mistaken about something here? Are there circumstances that permit this?
 
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George789:
I don’t think the priest began the mass with, “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.
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I don’t believe this invalidates the sacrament. It may have been an oversight as you implied that it is said normally.
I noticed that when the priest consecrated the host there was an extra chalice on the altar. After distributing the sacred host the priest placed the chalice in the tabernacle.
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I might be confused on terminology here, because I thought the chalice referred to the cup with blood, and that the vessel for the body was called something else. If he put the blood in the tabernacle, that might be weird because I thought you only put the Body in it, but I could be wrong.
This all seemed ok to me. After the mass ended I usually sit and pray a prayer of thanksgiving but as I was doing this a sister went up to the tabernacle and took the chalice out and proceeded to carry it outside the into the vestibule. I felt uncomfortable at this point so I began to leave. As I was leaving I noticed that the sister took the chalice outside into the rain.
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What did she do with it? Just leave it sit in the rain? I believe you can carry it out if there is a distribution for say, the home bound ( but usually you take only as many as you need at the tabernacle and put it into a pyx. That is, I don’t think you are supposed to leave the tabernacle barren, very strange) I couldn’t say without more detail.

Scott
 
I doubt if the vessel you saw was a chalice containing the precious blood. It is more likely that it was a ciborium, a container with a lid containing reserved consecrated hosts for distribution to the sick and homebound. If you was the sister take it she was probably taking it to the sick, perhaps elderly residents of her convent or nursing home who could not attend Mass. It is possible that the vessel you saw was indeed a chalice containing the Precious Blood, if so, it was probably intended for a sick person who cannot swallow the host (as was the case with my mother in her last weeks).

If the vessel did not have a cover, she would have covered it with a purificator, a small white cloth. There are special containers available for transporting small amounts of the precious blood to the sick which are more secure than an open chalice. Perhaps the priest and sister were responding to an emergency call to the sick or dying. Let us put the most charitable interpretation on any unexplained action we see on the part of those in service to the Church. Wait until you have a definite reason to suspect irregularity before making a judgement.
 
Perhaps the best bet is to ask the priest or sister to explain what you observed, and there may be a simple explanation. Based on the story you presented, there are too many unknowns, and I’ll have to make a lot of guesses.

First, I’ll presume that priest just didn’t say the initial blessing loud enough for you to hear. Perhaps he was distracted and said it only to himself. It would be hard to believe that he deliberately left it out because he doesn’t believe in the trinity.

Your description of the second situation also needs more background information.

Yes, there are times when a priest may consecrate extra hosts, to be placed in the tabernable after Mass. They are placed in a ciborium, not a chalice; a chalice is used for the precious blood. From the congregation they may look similar, but the ciborium has a lid.

This would be done if the priest or an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion was going to make sick calls, taking Holy Communion to those who cannot attend Mass. Or perhaps he wasn’t going to be able to say Mass the next day, but a Communion Service was scheduled.

Is it possible that there are elderly nuns in the convent who can’t get to Mass in person? Perhaps there is a chapel in the convent, and the sister was going to place the ciborium in that tabernacle. It would have been better for the priest to celebrate Mass in that chapel, so the sister didn’t have to carry the ciborium to the convent, but we’re missing a lot of information.

When you say the sister took the “chalice” into the rain–was it covered to prevent the consecrated hosts from melting? If it was a ciborium it would have had a lid. Is your concern that the hosts were getting wet, or that the container (ciborium) was getting wet?

If the sister had a legitimate reason to take the ciborium to the convent’s chapel, the fact that it happened to be raining would not be a liturgical abuse, assuming the ciborium had a lid.

If you can fill in some of the blanks, perhaps we can better figure out what was happening.
 
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George789:
I am not sure what to call this but here is the story. I went to Church this morning and everything seemed well with one exception. I don’t think the priest began the mass with, “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.
I noticed that when the priest consecrated the host there was an extra chalice on the altar. After distributing the sacred host the priest placed the chalice in the tabernacle. This all seemed ok to me. After the mass ended I usually sit and pray a prayer of thanksgiving but as I was doing this a sister went up to the tabernacle and took the chalice out and proceeded to carry it outside the into the vestibule. I felt uncomfortable at this point so I began to leave. As I was leaving I noticed that the sister took the chalice outside into the rain. My question: Is this a liturgical abuse? Am I mistaken about something here? Are there circumstances that permit this?
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No priest would ever place a chalice in the tabernacle! What you saw was a ciborium which from a distance looks like a chalice, except that it has a lid with a cross on top. It is possible that sister was taking this to the convent or possibly another parish without a priest or even the hospital or nursing home if there is a large number of Catholic patients. Usually a few Hosts are carried in a small Pyx however most pyx will only hold 4 or 5 Hosts at most.
 
That explains most of my questions. To fill in the blanks. The “cup” I saw was really a ciborium. It looked like a cup but it had a cover with a vertical cross on top. No, it wasn’t the chalice. I have my terms confused. The sister did go out into the rain with the covered ciborium (no white cloth, only gold lid) but I am not sure where she went. I just saw her walk out the door. The explainations given by some of the posts could be possible.

Thanks for the posts
 
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puzzleannie:
I doubt if the vessel you saw was a chalice containing the precious blood. It is more likely that it was a ciborium, a container with a lid containing reserved consecrated hosts for distribution to the sick and homebound. If you was the sister take it she was probably taking it to the sick, perhaps elderly residents of her convent or nursing home who could not attend Mass. It is possible that the vessel you saw was indeed a chalice containing the Precious Blood, if so, it was probably intended for a sick person who cannot swallow the host (as was the case with my mother in her last weeks).

If the vessel did not have a cover, she would have covered it with a purificator, a small white cloth. There are special containers available for transporting small amounts of the precious blood to the sick which are more secure than an open chalice. Perhaps the priest and sister were responding to an emergency call to the sick or dying. Let us put the most charitable interpretation on any unexplained action we see on the part of those in service to the Church. Wait until you have a definite reason to suspect irregularity before making a judgement.
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That’s unacceptable. We should take the Eucharist to the homebound in a securely closed pyx placed in a burse that is hung around our necks. The burse should be under our coats if the weather is cold/raining. I have seen many pyxes that will hold over 100 Hosts.

The use of purificators or other linens is specifically prohibited in our parish for the use you suggest.

Finally, a priest may well place a chalice in a tabernacle. I have seen sealed chalices that we placed in the tabernacle until the end of Mass. Then the priest opened the tabernacle and took the chalice to a homebound person…
 
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Crusader:
That’s unacceptable. We should take the Eucharist to the homebound in a securely closed pyx placed in a burse that is hung around our necks. The burse should be under our coats if the weather is cold/raining. I have seen many pyxes that will hold over 100 Hosts.

The use of purificators or other linens is specifically prohibited in our parish for the use you suggest.

Finally, a priest may well place a chalice in a tabernacle. I have seen sealed chalices that we placed in the tabernacle until the end of Mass. Then the priest opened the tabernacle and took the chalice to a homebound person…
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The Precious Blood should never be transported in a chalice and should never be placed in a ciborium. There are special bottles with double seals for this purpose. Many ciborium that I have used had very tight fitting lids and it would be proper to transport the Blessed Sacrament in a ciborium from one parish church to another.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
The Precious Blood should never be transported in a chalice and should never be placed in a ciborium. There are special bottles with double seals for this purpose. Many ciborium that I have used had very tight fitting lids and it would be proper to transport the Blessed Sacrament in a ciborium from one parish church to another.
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The Precious Blood can most certainly be transported in a sealable chalice, NOT to be confused with ciborium!

The pyx (not the ciborium) is the correct container in which to transport the Most Blessed Sacrament.
 
I am confused? What I saw was a container that looked like a gold cup with a gold cap cover and vertical cross on the top. It contained, to my knowledge, Sacred Hosts. To my knowledge she did not cover the “ciborium” with any cloth or garment. Should I be concerned about this? Is this common practice to help the sick or convents?
 
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George789:
I am confused? What I saw was a container that looked like a gold cup with a gold cap cover and vertical cross on the top. It contained, to my knowledge, Sacred Hosts. To my knowledge she did not cover the “ciborium” with any cloth or garment. Should I be concerned about this? Is this common practice to help the sick or convents?
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What you saw was a ciborium. No, she should not have covered the ciborium – but she should have put the Hosts in a pyx and then a burse for transportation.

Even if her walk was just across a plaza, a trip and a fall with a full ciborium could cause a terrible problem – particularly if it was raining.
 
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George789:
I am confused? What I saw was a container that looked like a gold cup with a gold cap cover and vertical cross on the top. It contained, to my knowledge, Sacred Hosts. To my knowledge she did not cover the “ciborium” with any cloth or garment. Should I be concerned about this?
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No

Is this common practice to help the sick or convents?

No, normally the Hosts are carried in a Pyx for this purpose. However in rare cases where she may have needed to transfer a large number of Hosts to say another parish or a tabernacle located in the chapel at a nursing home for use during the up coming week, the use of a ciborium would have been reasonable.
 
my point was that simply what we observe is insuffucient to make a judgement on other people’s actions. Unless you have direct definite knowledge otherwise, the priest is the person responsible for the proper procedure regarding the Eucharist, he was there, you assume that everything was done properly. You must always begin with that assumption in charity. Don’t spend your time looking for abuses right and left, spend your time in worship and adoration in church, not in speculation about the actions of others. your time will be much more rewarding.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
No

Is this common practice to help the sick or convents?

No, normally the Hosts are carried in a Pyx for this purpose. However in rare cases where she may have needed to transfer a large number of Hosts to say another parish or a tabernacle located in the chapel at a nursing home for use during the up coming week, the use of a ciborium would have been reasonable.
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There are pyxs out there that will hold 500+ hosts. Quite common.

Walking (or driving) around with a full ciborium seems needlessly risky. Better to have the Most Blessed Sacrament in a pyx and then a burse which can be slung around one’s neck. Far, far more secure.
 
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