Taking the Host by hand, disturbing?

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HagiaSophia:
As far as I know, intinction is strictly forbidden and in our diocese is a practice, which when reported, is brought to a halt.
Intinction by the LAITY has been condemned by Rome, but is still considered a pious practice when the intinction is done by a person in Holy Orders. (the priest or deacon intincts the Host and places it on the tounge of the recepient.)
 
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Brendan:
Intinction by the LAITY has been condemned by Rome, but is still considered a pious practice when the intinction is done by a person in Holy Orders. (the priest or deacon intincts the Host and places it on the tounge of the recepient.)
I believe that includes EMHCs also. I don’t have my cc of the GIRM handy, but I seem to recall that it is treated in there.
 
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tulipelb:
than when Jesus gave hid disciples his blood and body by hand it doesn’t mean that we can take the host by hand
Nor does it mean that we can’t. The Church has the authority to regulate how the Sacraments are imparted, and has exercised that authority. Disagreeing with the exercise of that authority is a personal opinion.
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tulipelb:
, it’s not a reason to do that, and in th epast the church allowed that the host to be taken by hands because they were afraid as they were beeing cricified and they were hiding inside caves to assist mass and beeing rush to take the host and run home to not be kept…
Do you have some authority you can quote for that, or is that simply your opinion?
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tulipelb:
so that time they have reason s to do that but our time it’s different so why we want to take the host by hand when finally we will put it inside our mouth? hei? can anybody tell me why?
The Church has stated why. The Mass is both Sacrifice and Sacred Meal. The Church holds that there is sign value in our actions, and that receiving the Host in out hands, and being given the Cup is a fuller sign of what Christ commanded us :“Take and eat…Take and drink…”
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tulipelb:
by the way the hsot stay 24 hours inside our body so it’s not allow to take the host more than onc eper day just the priest is allow because he has to do more than mass per day to accomplish the need of the church.
JG
No, that is not true. The Host lasts for about 15 minutes on an average with normal gastric activity, if one has been fasting as required (1 hour before receiving). Furthermore, the Church has specifically allowed the reception twice per day; the second reception must be at a Mass.
 
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pnewton:
I do not understand why this is such a problem for some. The church allows this. If you do not agree, then receive communion on your tongue. Many of the same people who have argued against communion on hand being allowed also are opposed to some of the more “community” aspects of the liturgy (eg.-sign of peace, standing throughout communion).** Then why would you pick this topic to suddenly keep track of you neighboring communicant./**
QUOTE]

pnewton, I can truthfully tell you that **I didn’t suddenly keep track of a neighbor!! **

Have you noticed the lack of respect before, during and after the Mass as compared to just 20 years ago?

Actually, I’ve noticed an increased reverence.
 
One may receive the Holy Eucharist, by intinction, dry on the tongue, by spoon and by straw. Then there are different national/regional exceptions. In some countries, mostly North American and western European, communion in the hand is permitted. I believe that when it was allowed here in the US, intinction was proscribed, since then it takes away the option of receiving in the hand. Not crazy over intinction anyway. The lord said, Take, eat. Take drink." Not, “Take, dunk.” It started in the US when I was about 12 years old. That would be 25 yers ago. I remember the first weekend very well.

Historically, in the hand was the norm. I don’t recall which very early document it is, perhaps the Didache, where it is clearly described. The Holy Eucharist was to be received with one hand over the other, “so as to form a throne.” But remember that the Church was small and very strict at that time. As others began to infiltrate, some measures to protect the sanctity of the Sacrament were introduced.

Eventually, receiving under the appearence of wine was discontinued under most circumstances (and restored following Vatican II). There were very real and grave reasons for this. It is very easy to spill the Sacred Species, contaminate It, etc. Same with cultists swiping the Species of bread for desecration.

In my parish, filled with hepatitis and town drunks who listen for the consecration bells so they can come in and “drink a glass of wine” every Mass, I discontinued the practice of distributing under the Species of Wine. This situation is not new to the world; it has existed in many places since time immemorial.

Likewise in this city, we have the endless and secretive diabolical works of the Satanists, the Masons and, most especially, practitioners of Voodoo and Santaria. It is very easy for someone to infiltrate and receive the Eucharist in the hand, pretend to ingest It, and carry It off for their unmentionable sacrileges. People in the area who have been discipled OUT of these cults are clear to say that their members could be presenting themselves as pillars of the parish, daily and weekly Mass, etc etc, so they gain trust, all to get the Eucharist.

While I cannot prohibit Communion in the Hand, the EM’s and I keep very close watch on each person who receives Communion in any way (easy to receive on the tongue and do a scratching the face move while actially spitting It into the hands). You will sometimes see an EM or myself, following a person from the communion line down the aisle to tell them, “Put it in your mouth and swallow it or give it back to me.” Also, parishioners practice fraternal correction and inform myself or an EM when a person ahead of them in line apparently hasn’t consumed the Host.

Receiving Holy Communion under any form can be reverent or irreverent; it depends on the disposition of the Communicant. But some methods were recognized in the past to be particularly open to abuse or the spread of disease and so they were withdrawn.

Now, they have been restored. Restoring these forms does not challenge history or theology; both are firmly established. They have always been pastoral/practical issues. Since these practices have been restored, it is simply a matter of using additional labor to instruct the faithful, the EMs, etc., as to the proper way to receive, and to adapt to the local parrochial, diocesan or regional circumstances.

But being offensive? I know how it struck me when I was a child, and that lasted a long time. I am still not crazy over the practice, again for practical, not historical reasons. This is not an innovation. But things that are different, when we don’t understand them, can be shoicking at least, repulsive at worst. We must then think, “If the Church is allowing this, there must be a reason. I will research the reason.” In this case, we find it’s not an evil plot, nor something any more irreverant than anything else done by an irreverent person.

– Fr. L.
 
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ByzCath:
The practice of Communion in Hand is something that was done in the early Church.
The early Church argument is vastly overplayed. The Mass and liturgical practices developed organically over centuries and largely in response to various heresies that sprouted up.

Consider that Communion in the hand was outlawed because it did not foster a sense of the Real Presence?

The practices of the early Church lasted for about two centuries. What most of us know as traditional Catholicism lasted for about 15 centuries. And since our return to the days of the early Church, we have a 95% drop in vocations, massive liturgical abuses of the Mass, and only about a quarter of Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Sounds like strike two for the ways of the early Church.
 
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amasimp:
The early Church argument is vastly overplayed. The Mass and liturgical practices developed organically over centuries and largely in response to various heresies that sprouted up.

Consider that Communion in the hand was outlawed because it did not foster a sense of the Real Presence?

The practices of the early Church lasted for about two centuries. What most of us know as traditional Catholicism lasted for about 15 centuries. And since our return to the days of the early Church, we have a 95% drop in vocations, massive liturgical abuses of the Mass, and only about a quarter of Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Sounds like strike two for the ways of the early Church.
And there goes another post hoc, ergo propter hoc arguement. I seriously doubt that Communion in the hand has caused a 95% drop in vocations, massive liturgical abuses in the Mass, and/or only about 1/4 of Catholics believing in the True Presence. It makes just about as much sense (acutally, it makes more sense) to blame it on the Viet Nam war. Returning to the early Church has brought us back the permanent Diaconite, as well as a renewed understanding of and practice of several of the sacraments. And I would also challenge the 95% drop in vocations; where did you get that statistic?
 
Agreed, OTM.

Amasimp, you are going off-topic with your claims. The original poster wanted to know where this came from. It has been made clear from where it came.

I also made it clear that, because of changing circumstances (ie, the Edict of Milan in 313, allowing the Church to come out from underground) certain disciplines have changed abck and forth.

I agree with OTM that a change in discipline regarding Communion in the Hand cannot be held responsible for the other things you mention. Likewise, “massive” abuses is a bit exaggerated, as is the statistic of 75% of Catholics not believing in the Real Presence. I know there there are some so-called studies that say such a thing (though I have never seen any results anywhere near that high), I can also say that of the tens of thousands of people I kknow and to whom I have ministered in parishes over the years, I know of no priest or layman who was ever studied or polled on the questions.

Remember, "Statistics don’t lie; Liars make statistics.
But again, off topic. The original questions have been addressed.

– Fr. L.
 
Excuse me please-

For those who said the Masons believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist and that they wanted to encourage disrespect, and that Lucifer was the “Grand Architect” of the universe - What are your sources?

I am asking because I can’t believe my boss left his Masonic “King James” version of the Bible along with the Masonic Lodge’s by-laws in a drawer in the common office of my work place. When he wasn’t there, I tried looking in these things to see if I could find anything “anti-Catholic”, but so far I haven’t.

They seem to refer to the Church of England as “Holy Church” and alot about Solomon, but other than that, I couldn’t find anything. -Just a nosey “busy-body” if its worth checking out! - Mfaustina1 :rolleyes:
 
I beg your pardon, MFaustina, but if you are not familiar with the Masons, and willing to look upon them as some sort of Christian or social group, then your very soul is in grave grave danger.

Among a billiion other things, the reference to Lucifer that I am most familiar with is in the main Masonic book which argues that the Lord is God . . . AND that Lucifer is God. Look into it, if you wish. But it is my recommendation that it is not good for the soul to be looking into such occult and forbidden societies. I myself studied it deeply and give talks on the subject specifically. Every time I speak against the Masons, I pay for it dearly, believe me.

And a reminder that any Cathoolic who is also a Mason is barred from the Sacraments.

A discussion on the Masons should take a new thread, but again, I just don’t recommend talking about such subjects or Freemasonry, the Demonic and the Occult.

– Fr. L.
 
No, that is not true. The Host lasts for about 15 minutes on an average with normal gastric activity, if one has been fasting as required (1 hour before receiving). Furthermore, the Church has specifically allowed the reception twice per day; the second reception must be at a Mass.

It’s true the HOST will stay 24 hours inside our body and please go and clarify this subject with your Priest and he will confirm what i said.
JG
 
Originally Posted by tulipelb
, it’s not a reason to do that, and in th epast the church allowed that the host to be taken by hands because they were afraid as they were beeing cricified and they were hiding inside caves to assist mass and beeing rush to take the host and run home to not be kept…
Of Course Go and search for the history of maronite and you will understand !
JG
 
quote The Church has stated why. The Mass is both Sacrifice and Sacred Meal. The Church holds that there is sign value in our actions, and that receiving the Host in out hands, and being given the Cup is a fuller sign of what Christ commanded us :"Take and eat…Take and drink…"quote

See your are interpretating words of christ in your own way, think a little bit and ask yourself why am the son of God should i take the Host by my hands to put inside my mouth? is their any blessed or respectful reason for that? definately NO!
let me simplify this for you by an example:
you met 2 persons that you know, the 1st one you run towards him hug him kiss him and squueze his hand !
the 2nd one you just look at him and say hello.
So when you took the Host by your hands and put inside your mouth it’s just like you are saying for Jesus hello as simple as it is.
But when you receive the Host directly from the priest inside your mouth it’s like you are saying for Jesus thank you for your Holy Body and Blood, which I can’t live without Him, thank you for your Love without conditions, even that some day i’m hearting you with my sins, i’m gratefull Jesus and I’m thankfull because your are My Holy God! OK DID YOU GOT THE # ??
Any way, you are free to do whatever you want or you beleive, i’m not here to judge you by saying that your are doing wrong by taking host by hands and i’m doing right by taking host directly in my mouth, i’m here just because i’m christian and responsible to clarify things for people like you… it’s my responsibility to guide my brothers and sisters in christ whever it needs…
JG
 
Fr. JLT:
Likewise in this city, we have the endless and secretive diabolical works of the Satanists, the Masons and, most especially, practitioners of Voodoo and Santaria. It is very easy for someone to infiltrate and receive the Eucharist in the hand, pretend to ingest It, and carry It off for their unmentionable sacrileges. People in the area who have been discipled OUT of these cults are clear to say that their members could be presenting themselves as pillars of the parish, daily and weekly Mass, etc etc, so they gain trust, all to get the Eucharist.
– Fr. L.
Yes it’s true ! that’s why I disagree with people who receive the Host by hand , why we open the door for the evil people and satanic person to take the host by hands and do some unrespectfull things with it, why? As disciples of Jesus Christ we should close this door and not allow them to take the host by hand! in that way they will be afraid to approach from the host as evil will not allow them to receive it by mouth because once the host enter the body it will purify the soul and smach evil!
jg
 
Fr. JLT:
I beg your pardon, MFaustina, but if you are not familiar with the Masons, and willing to look upon them as some sort of Christian or social group, then your very soul is in grave grave danger.

Among a billiion other things, the reference to Lucifer that I am most familiar with is in the main Masonic book which argues that the Lord is God . . . AND that Lucifer is God. Look into it, if you wish. But it is my recommendation that it is not good for the soul to be looking into such occult and forbidden societies. I myself studied it deeply and give talks on the subject specifically. Every time I speak against the Masons, I pay for it dearly, believe me.

And a reminder that any Cathoolic who is also a Mason is barred from the Sacraments.

A discussion on the Masons should take a new thread, but again, I just don’t recommend talking about such subjects or Freemasonry, the Demonic and the Occult.

– Fr. L.
I definately Agree with you about Masons!
JG
 
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tulipelb:
It’s true the HOST will stay 24 hours inside our body and please go and clarify this subject with your Priest and he will confirm what i said.
JG
I’ll probably regret weighing in here…

I believe the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion, especially an assertion as incredible as “a physically tiny amount of Our Lord’s Precious Body, which in every other respect appears and behaves as a tiny portion of unleavened bread, survives the digestive process much longer than one would expect a similar piece of bread to would do so

tee
 
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Exporter:
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pnewton:
Have you noticed the lack of respect before, during and after the Mass as compared to just 20 years ago? The most solemn part of the Mass is Consecration and to me the actual taking of the Host.
To put Jesus in someone’s hands and they turn away , then consume the Host I think is a practice that lowers respect for what just happened. The Priest is not handing out news papers!! All this leads to more disrespect for the most glorious event on earth - The Mass.:tsktsk:
This is my exact point in my first post here. I realize that taking communion in the hand is allowed by the church. The lack of respect and interest is what I have a problem with. This “Lack” in my opinion is the reason why 70% of catholics don’t believe in the real presence. In most places in the world you will not see communion in the hands. In these places you many more devout catholics with the greater part of the church population believeing in and understanding the real presence of Christ. I truly believe there is a direct corulation between the two.

In Christ
hoa
 
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tulipelb:
No, that is not true. The Host lasts for about 15 minutes on an average with normal gastric activity, if one has been fasting as required (1 hour before receiving). Furthermore, the Church has specifically allowed the reception twice per day; the second reception must be at a Mass.
It’s true the HOST will stay 24 hours inside our body and please go and clarify this subject with your Priest and he will confirm what i said.
JG

I have and he didn’t, as well as other sources. Sorry, but when the Host is no longer identifiable, it is considered theologically that the Real Presence is no longer there. If you wish confimation of what the Chruch teaches on the matter, do some research as to how corrupted Hosts are handled.
 
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tulipelb:
quote The Church has stated why. The Mass is both Sacrifice and Sacred Meal. The Church holds that there is sign value in our actions, and that receiving the Host in out hands, and being given the Cup is a fuller sign of what Christ commanded us :"Take and eat…Take and drink…"quote

See your are interpretating words of christ in your own way, think a little bit and ask yourself why am the son of God should i take the Host by my hands to put inside my mouth? is their any blessed or respectful reason for that? definately NO!
let me simplify this for you by an example:
you met 2 persons that you know, the 1st one you run towards him hug him kiss him and squueze his hand !
the 2nd one you just look at him and say hello.
So when you took the Host by your hands and put inside your mouth it’s just like you are saying for Jesus hello as simple as it is.
But when you receive the Host directly from the priest inside your mouth it’s like you are saying for Jesus thank you for your Holy Body and Blood, which I can’t live without Him, thank you for your Love without conditions, even that some day i’m hearting you with my sins, i’m gratefull Jesus and I’m thankfull because your are My Holy God! OK DID YOU GOT THE # ??
Any way, you are free to do whatever you want or you beleive, i’m not here to judge you by saying that your are doing wrong by taking host by hands and i’m doing right by taking host directly in my mouth, i’m here just because i’m christian and responsible to clarify things for people like you… it’s my responsibility to guide my brothers and sisters in christ whever it needs…
JG
If you feel a responsiblilty to guide your brothers and sisters in Christ, then I would suggest that the first step in doing so is to educate yourself on what the Church teaches about the issue on which you wish to guide. When and where there are different approaches which may be legitimately taken, and you feel a need to give guidance, then I would respectfully suggest that you learn the reasons why the church allows two different approaches, and what the symbolism is of each approach.

I respect that you have some deep feelings about how the Eucharist shoudl be received, but those are your feelings. The Church obviously has seen differently. If you wish to teach, then teach what the Church teaches; otherwise you are substituting your personal preferences and understandings for the Church’s position. We have enough of that from the liberals without having a duplication from the conservatives.

You say you are not here to judge me, and then in the same sentance you say you are here to “clarify things for people like me”. And that is not a judgement??? If not, pray tell what you mean by “people like me”.
 
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tulipelb:
Yes it’s true ! that’s why I disagree with people who receive the Host by hand , why we open the door for the evil people and satanic person to take the host by hands and do some unrespectfull things with it, why? As disciples of Jesus Christ we should close this door and not allow them to take the host by hand! in that way they will be afraid to approach from the host as evil will not allow them to receive it by mouth because once the host enter the body it will purify the soul and smach evil!
jg
By this logic, we should deny everyone Communion. Satanism didn’t start at about the same time as Vatican 2. As noted in an above post, it is entirely possible to receive on the tongue and remove the Host, if one wishes to commit a sacrilige.

If one wishes to be secretive, in fact, and do such act, receiving on the tongue is more likely to be a successful means of taking a Host. Once it is in the hand, reception or non-reception becomes more obvious. If you wish to sneak, what better way than to appear pious, receive on the tongue, and then put your hands up to your mouth in a pious folded position and eject the Host into your hand? It is a much more simple and secure proceedure than receiving in the hand and then having to consume the Host where all can see.
 
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