Talk a Woman out of Abortion in the UK? Two Years Jail

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By Hilary WhiteLONDON, August 26, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Crisis pregnancy centres, as well as doctors, nurses and midwives, may be subject to prosecution and a two-year jail sentence if they convince a woman to forego an abortion. Under a proposed amendment to the Human Fertilisation and…

Full article…
 
When information is illegal.
An offense will have been committed if the information given “causes or is likely to cause the average pregnant woman to take a decision in relation to the termination of her pregnancy she would not have taken otherwise.”
 
When information is illegal.
An offense will have been committed if the information given “causes or is likely to cause the average pregnant woman to take a decision in relation to the termination of her pregnancy she would not have taken otherwise.”
Here’s the bit you left out

*The amendment continues, “Any person, association or body corporate shall be guilty of an offence” if they provide "material which … contains false information and is untruthful … or in its overall presentation deceives or is in any way likely to deceive the average person.…even if the information is factually correct".
*

The illegal information is deliberately wrong information set out to deceive and mislead.
 
Interesting…

So, what happens to people who force women to abort gainst their will in the UK? (I know it’s a bit off topic, but just curious)
 
Here’s the bit you left out

The amendment continues, “Any person, association or body corporate shall be guilty of an offence” if they provide "material which … contains false information and is untruthful … or in its overall presentation deceives or is in any way likely to deceive the average person.…even if the information is factually correct".

The illegal information is deliberately wrong information set out to deceive and mislead.
And so if every bit of information presented is factually correct, and yet “causes or is likely to cause the average pregnant woman to take a decision in relation to the termination of her pregnancy she would not have taken otherwise,” there should be no cause of action?

I’m having trouble understanding how “factually correct” information could be construed as information “set out to deceive and mislead.” It sounds as if they want to make it illegal to cause a woman to change her mind!
 
It means that an anti-abortion center/counseling service would have to be clear in its advertising that it didn’t support abortion.

I admit that I don’t quite understand what’s wrong with that but I’m sure that somebody will tell me.
 
It means that an anti-abortion center/counseling service would have to be clear in its advertising that it didn’t support abortion.

I admit that I don’t quite understand what’s wrong with that but I’m sure that somebody will tell me.
Would a pro-abortion office also have to advertise itself as biased? The people who want to talk a woman into aborting are billing their counsel as just helping the woman decide what’s best for her, while the ones who want to save the baby must declare themselves to have an agenda, as if it were wrong, even if they are the ones presenting the facts. If they simply tell the truth, they face jail time for failing to make their purpose clear, but someone with the opposite purpose who may distort the facts may actually be paid with tax money to do so and need never expalin his/her agenda. And which purpose does this set-up favor? Would it not make sense that the ones who wish to keep a baby alive would get the benefit of the doubt? Yet it is the other way around. That is what is wrong. The laws more and more reflect reversed morality.
 
Would a pro-abortion office also have to advertise itself as biased? The people who want to talk a woman into aborting are billing their counsel as just helping the woman decide what’s best for her, while the ones who want to save the baby must declare themselves to have an agenda, as if it were wrong, even if they are the ones presenting the facts. If they simply tell the truth, they face jail time for failing to make their purpose clear, but someone with the opposite purpose who may distort the facts may actually be paid with tax money to do so and need never expalin his/her agenda. And which purpose does this set-up favor? Would it not make sense that the ones who wish to keep a baby alive would get the benefit of the doubt? Yet it is the other way around. That is what is wrong. The laws more and more reflect reversed morality.
I’m sure that’s all terribly interesting but it’s actually about whether advertising should mislead about the services provided or not.
 
Right, so you guys are in favor of:
“material which … contains false information and is untruthful … or in its overall presentation deceives or is in any way likely to deceive the average person…even if the information is factually correct”.
What happened to “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”
 
This doesn’t change our marching orders in the least.

Lying=objectively wrong.
Abortion=objectively wrong.

The only difference would be if the legal system gets loopy (which it can, see the recent hate-speech cases) and entertains absurd definitions of “misleading”. Like, You say, “You and your unborn baby are Children of God!” and they say, “You can’t prove that! Misleading!”

But again, it don’t change anything. We have to tell the truth, even to the point of jail time.
 
By Hilary WhiteLONDON, August 26, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Crisis pregnancy centres, as well as doctors, nurses and midwives, may be subject to prosecution and a two-year jail sentence if they convince a woman to forego an abortion. Under a proposed amendment to the Human Fertilisation and…

Full article…
To be fair, the legislation is directed against “misleading” information. However, since it covers allegedly “misleading” information that is “factually correct,” one has to ask who is going to be making the call that the information is “misleading”? This is a very bad law indeed, and it’s further evidence of the incredibly patronizing and even tyrannical policies of the current Labour government. They really don’t trust people to think for themselves (apart from the prolife issue per se, this is part of a pattern on which many conservative British writers have commented).

The bright side is that it looks as if the government is going to lose big in the next election. But whether the Conservatives will be much better remains to be seen. . . .

Edwin
 
Right, so you guys are in favor of:

What happened to “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”
The problem is that when you say “misleading” information can be “factually correct” you open up endless vistas of subjectivity. Suppose the prolife counselors cite studies showing that abortion is likely to result in medical and psychological problems for the mother, but the government board reviewing the case relies on other studies showing that this isn’t so? Suppose (as another poster has suggested) the government board labels philosophical and theological claims about the sanctity of life and the status of the unborn as “misleading”? Suppose any attempt to make the humanity of the fetus vivid to the mother (through ultrasounds, etc.) is labeled “misleading”? These things are all possible, even likely.

Edwin
 
Oh, no. Truth is never sacrificed in the name of ideology. At least not on the “pro-choice” side. :rolleyes:

They’d never suppress evidence that abortion increases the chances for breast cancer.

They’d never deny funding to study whether women who have had abortions are more likely to be depressed or suicidal. Nope.

They’d not refuse to study potential links between abortion and later fertility problems, would they?

They wouldn’t advertise abortion clinics with a name like “Planned Parenthood” would they? That would be misleading. That’s why they call themselves “Escape Parenthood.”
 
The amendment is about advertising not content. Once through the door, women can face whatever ‘content’ the Center providers wish - what the amendment is about is that a Center has to make clear in its advertising if it doesn’t make referrals for abortion.

I still can’t see what’s wrong with that.
 
To be fair, the legislation is directed against “misleading” information. However, since it covers allegedly “misleading” information that is “factually correct,” one has to ask who is going to be making the call that the information is “misleading”? This is a very bad law indeed, and it’s further evidence of the incredibly patronizing and even tyrannical policies of the current Labour government. They really don’t trust people to think for themselves (apart from the prolife issue per se, this is part of a pattern on which many conservative British writers have commented).

The bright side is that it looks as if the government is going to lose big in the next election. But whether the Conservatives will be much better remains to be seen. . . .

Edwin
John Bercow, who tabled the amendment, is a Conservative.
 
The amendment continues, “Any person, association or body corporate shall be guilty of an offence” if they provide “material which … contains false information and is untruthful … or in its overall presentation deceives or is in any way likely to deceive the average person…even if the information is factually correct”.
So they now have a law on the books that says the deliberate deception of an individual for the purposes of talking a woman out of an abortion is grounds for a prosecution.

OK.

But if someone is using deception in what they believe to be a pro-life cause, they are doing more harm then good.

If your pro-life witness is not 100% truthful, then get out of the way. You are damaging the pro-life cause, and may get thrown in jail.

I see no harm in this legislation at this point.
 
The harm is the one-sidedness. Abortion advocates deceive themselves and everyone who will listen that what they are doing is “offering reproductive health care services, regardless of the ability to pay.” Sounds so nice, doesn’t it? In reality, they are pushing a social agenda that pushes abortion as the solution to crisis pregnancy. Ever heard of a Planned Parenthood center that was also a state certified adoption agency?

Me either. They advertise themselves as providing women’s reproductive health care services, but they only put effort towards ONE choice.

If there is going to be a law about deception in advertising, it really ought to cut BOTH ways, not just target pro-life crisis pregnancy centers.
 
By Hilary WhiteLONDON, August 26, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Crisis pregnancy centres, as well as doctors, nurses and midwives, may be subject to prosecution and a two-year jail sentence if they convince a woman to forego an abortion. Under a proposed amendment to the Human Fertilisation and…

Full article…
That’s awesome! Here’s why:

Civil disobdience.

Not only is it worth the 2 years in jail over, but it generates some great headlines/gets attention to the issue.
 
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