Talk about Touching and the Harrisburg Program

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I’m not sure, but it seems to me the sad part of this whole mess is that it has made everyone paranoid about dealing with children. Adults who would normally be friendly with children are now afraid to even give them a hug, for fear of being thought a predator. Little league coaches place an additional distance between them and the children, to protect against accusations. Not good. And I do think that it is a shame that any child should be required to learn the details about sex before they reach puberty. It destroys their innocence.
 
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4HisChurch:
Alan, that seems a bit odd to me. Why do they single out 15 passenger vans specifically? What does this have to do with child abuse? Why not mention SUVs as well?
Here is an excerpt from the virtus spiel on 15 passenger vans.:
In addition to not wearing age-appropriate restraints, the children in this accident were being transported in a 15-passenger van, a vehicle not built to school bus standards. The Safety Board has consistently found in its investigations that when transporting children to school or school-related activities the safest form of transportation is a school bus or vehicle built to school bus standards. Fifteen-passenger vans are frequently used to transport child care students, school sports teams, van pools, church groups, and other groups. Although they are involved in a proportionate number of fatal accidents compared to their percentage in the fleet, they are involved in a higher number of single-vehicle accidents involving rollovers when compared to other passenger vehicles. Various factors have been associated with 15-passenger van rollovers, particularly occupancy level and vehicle speed. Because these vans are designed to carry 15 passengers, the Safety Board is particularly concerned about the relationship between the vehicles’ occupancy level and their rollover propensity. Fully loading or nearly loading a 15-passenger van causes the center of gravity to move rearward and upward, which increases its rollover propensity and could increase the potential for a driver’s loss of control in emergency maneuvers. The Safety Board is convinced that the best way to maximize pupil transportation safety is to ensure that all vehicles carrying more than 10 passengers and transporting children to and from school, school activities, and daycare centers meet federal school bus construction standards. The Safety Board has recommended that states implement a comprehensive child care transportation safety program. The program should include:
In the meantime, child care operators should voluntarily take these steps to help ensure the safety of the children in their care. The full report is available from the NTSB website at www.ntsb.gov.
 
So I guess they would frown on hauling everybody in the back of a pickup truck?

Sometimes I wonder how I survived childhood, without the bureaucracy to protect me.
 
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JimG:
Sometimes I wonder how I survived childhood, without the bureaucracy to protect me.
You might have, but many have not. I, too, think the bureaucracy can get out of hand, but the rationale that you survived it so it must be OK just doesn’t stand to reason.
 
Aha.

So it’s about failure to hire school buses, in favor of parents or schools having their own transportation.

I smell an agenda. I should have known – virtus = bureaucracy – so they would not want private individuals or schools taking on the driving jobs of paid professionals.

Alan
 
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Catholic90:
I’ve gone through the VIRTUS training. I think it is a fine program.

As far as teaching kids “explicit” words, it is the proper name. It’s not all cutesy and flowery. It is the proper name for the part.

I do not see anything wrong with that. After all, we teach them the proper name for their ears, eyes, and toes. Why not the other parts?
Let me explain…This is for Pre-K through 4th grade. Now in my home, I will handle body parts in a very loving, virtuous manner. I do not believe any school, let alone a Catholic school has any business telling my 1st grader:

Janey sleeps over at her friends house. Her friends brother lays down by her sleeping bag and puts his hands down her pants and touches her vagina.

Please tell me that you too wouldn’t want a 6 year old subjected to this - let alone subjected to this in a mixed boy/girl class.

Kids start asking questions…Why would he put his hand on her…
What happens if I put my hand on my … What does a …do. etcl etc.

This program has nothing to share but destroy the innocence of our young children.
 
Donna P:
Let me explain…This is for Pre-K through 4th grade. Now in my home, I will handle body parts in a very loving, virtuous manner. I do not believe any school, let alone a Catholic school has any business telling my 1st grader:

Janey sleeps over at her friends house. Her friends brother lays down by her sleeping bag and puts his hands down her pants and touches her vagina.

Please tell me that you too wouldn’t want a 6 year old subjected to this - let alone subjected to this in a mixed boy/girl class.

Kids start asking questions…Why would he put his hand on her…
What happens if I put my hand on my … What does a …do. etcl etc.

This program has nothing to share but destroy the innocence of our young children.
Ick. That’s sick. http://bestsmileys.com/puking/2.gif

This is disgusting, and sounds like “suggestive sell.” :banghead:

Alan
 
Donna P:
Let me explain…This is for Pre-K through 4th grade. Now in my home, I will handle body parts in a very loving, virtuous manner. I do not believe any school, let alone a Catholic school has any business telling my 1st grader:

Janey sleeps over at her friends house. Her friends brother lays down by her sleeping bag and puts his hands down her pants and touches her vagina.

Please tell me that you too wouldn’t want a 6 year old subjected to this - let alone subjected to this in a mixed boy/girl class.

Kids start asking questions…Why would he put his hand on her…
What happens if I put my hand on my … What does a …do. etcl etc.

This program has nothing to share but destroy the innocence of our young children.
Wow - in a mixed class too. That’s just putting suggesstion into their head. Pretty amazing world we live in today.
No thanks - no way. Homeschool gets more and more attractive everyday.
 
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Jennifer123:
Wow - in a mixed class too. That’s just putting suggesstion into their head. Pretty amazing world we live in today.
No thanks - no way. Homeschool gets more and more attractive everyday.
They don’t do that kind of trash at the Catholic school I go to. They are very discrete about it, all teachings conform to Catholic doctrine, they don’t do it until middle school, and parents have to sign whether the child will attend class or cover the material at home.

For the younger kids, I really think that the parents should be responsible for “talk about touching.” If somebody thinks kids should know this stuff, they can send a confidential letter home to the parents and suggest the parents handle this at home, and then butt out.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
They don’t do that kind of trash at the Catholic school I go to. They are very discrete about it, all teachings conform to Catholic doctrine, they don’t do it until middle school, and parents have to sign whether the child will attend class or cover the material at home.

For the younger kids, I really think that the parents should be responsible for “talk about touching.” If somebody thinks kids should know this stuff, they can send a confidential letter home to the parents and suggest the parents handle this at home, and then butt out.

Alan
I agree and hope that I can find a Catholic school for my kids that is as considerate towards true Catholic doctrine!! 😃
(Could be a big task since we live just outside SF… 😛 )
 
I attended the virtus training in our Parish. It bothered me to watch those “reformed predators” talking about their past.
Isn’t the church now saying that these people can’t be reformed?Wasn’t that the big beef against the Bishops who moved priests from parish to parish? That these priests could not be reformed? I don’t know.
I agree with Alan that I don’t think this program has done a thing to help or prevent. More money down the drain.

That other program sounds really disgusting. Woe betide anyone who tries to mess with my childs innocence.
A little child knows what a person should not be doing and does not need all this information. "Better a millstone be tied…
 
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Halo:
I attended the virtus training in our Parish. It bothered me to watch those “reformed predators” talking about their past…
I was told during my Virtus program that at least one of the “reformed offenders” was caught and put back into jail for molesting another child!

I have been able to look at the Faith in Christian Chastity program that the Harrisburg Archdiocese has used. It is very Catholic for faith formation. It still talks about touching (which is the subject that I want total control of with my kids) but it is not anywhere as offensive as the Talking about Touching program.
 
Donna P:
I was told during my Virtus program that at least one of the “reformed offenders” was caught and put back into jail for molesting another child!
The royalties probably paid for his defense attorney. :rolleyes:

Alan
 
Alan fromW
missed you on that other post, closed. I don’t know about the walking around topless. The weather wouldn’t really allow for it!! Oh yes there is alot of indescency in the night clubs etc. That is not the bit I was referring to as American culture though. That unfortunately is global.

I was agreeing with the lady who said that she thought that you as Americans liked to make a lot of jokes about things that were not even funny. It has been my observation that this is true. Just to clarify. Glad I caught you.
 
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Halo:
Alan fromW
missed you on that other post, closed. I don’t know about the walking around topless. The weather wouldn’t really allow for it!! Oh yes there is alot of indescency in the night clubs etc. That is not the bit I was referring to as American culture though. That unfortunately is global.

I was agreeing with the lady who said that she thought that you as Americans liked to make a lot of jokes about things that were not even funny. It has been my observation that this is true. Just to clarify. Glad I caught you.
Thank you for your kind words and explanation. I’m glad that other thread is closed, and some of us even got to at least repent a little near the end. :o

I agree that many people laugh at things I don’t find funny and I’m not even sure they think it’s funny but I think laughing is very close to nervousness – when people don’t know how to deal with something they chuckle at it and this way they don’t have to reveal their true feelings. :whacky:

Now returning to your regularly scheduled thread… 😉

Alan
 
I don’t know anything about this program buy what I don’t understand is why parents cannot teach proper teminology for body parts. I don’t think that takes away from a child’s innocence at all–after all if you call it a “butterfly”(just 1 strange example i have heard) you have to teach that too. Unforunately we live in a world where there are predators–and sometimes it may be necessary for them to know correct terminology either for their teacher, nurse, family member, court of law…
 
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Dubervilles:
I don’t know anything about this program buy what I don’t understand is why parents cannot teach proper teminology for body parts. I don’t think that takes away from a child’s innocence at all–after all if you call it a “butterfly”(just 1 strange example i have heard) you have to teach that too. Unforunately we live in a world where there are predators–and sometimes it may be necessary for them to know correct terminology either for their teacher, nurse, family member, court of law…
I understand the desire for parents to teach their children proper terminology in the event they end up testifying about it.

That said, I do not think the school has any business teaching children below middle school at the very least, and in particular taking them through a thought exercise involving children touching each others’ genitals.

This is clearly a way to pique the curiosity of innocent children, so they will systematically know what a few very unfortunate ones might have had to. We rail against sex education in public school because we think that by explaining things to them that they shouldn’t be doing, such as using birth control and abortion as a legal way to enjoy promiscuity without the repercussions. By the same token, we are giving these kids suggestions to do perverted things they would not likely have thought of themselves.

Why is it the parents are considered the “primary educators” of their children, but they only hear that in the context of the schools telling them how they will and will not go about accomplishing that education. :whacky:

Alan
 
virtus.org/virtus/

link to the VIRTUS - Protecting God’s Children - Touching Safety site, this month’s article, monitoring programs your child will be exposed to.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
That said, I do not think the school has any business teaching children below middle school at the very least, and in particular taking them through a thought exercise involving children touching each others’ genitals.
OH MY!!! I knrew it was cold in Estes park today but i did not know it was cold enough for hell to freeze over!!! Alan and i agree on something!!!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_112.gif
 
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