Talking clouds, burning bushes, etc. in Scripture

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petras52

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Why do you think God chooses to communicate with us in sometimes strange ways? These days if someone said they heard from God by way of a burning bush, talking cloud, or in a dream, how many of us would believe him? My guess is very few…
 
99 out of 100 people would be so wrapped up in their own minute inconsequential concerns that the bush could be a bonfire or the cloud a tornado and they still would not notice, let alone hearing the still small voice. The difference between Moses, Elijah and every other prophet is that they looked, saw, stopped, and listened. IMO we all get bushes and clouds all the time but simply ignore them because we are oblivious to the idea that any source but our own intellect and will has anything worthwhile to impart to us.
 
Catholics the world over are expecting two miracles to be attributed to the intercession of Pope John Paul II. Pope Benedict elevated a person to sainthood when he went to England. Two well investigated, actual miracles are required. The Church can take many years to confirm this.

But, the media is telling us that belief is bad and supernatural events? You’ve got to be kidding! Religion and superstition like burning bushes that don’t actually burn? That happened back then. We’re living in “modern” times.

When we pray, we pray to a person. The same Jesus will literally come again.

God bless,
Ed
 
petras52 said:
Why do you think God chooses to communicate with us in sometimes strange ways? These days if someone said they heard from God by way of a burning bush, talking cloud, or in a dream, how many of us would believe him? My guess is very few…
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The point is not that God chooses to communicate with us in strange ways. The fact is, God chose to communicate us in the exemplary “non-strange” way…as a human…Jesus Christ.

Still, God communicating with us is completely “strange” in another respect (the idea that God–transcendental, eternal, etc.–would communicate with humans) and so is imaged by those who have experienced such revelation in remarkable and fascinating images.
 
puzzleannie said:
99 out of 100 people would be so wrapped up in their own minute inconsequential concerns that the bush could be a bonfire or the cloud a tornado and they still would not notice, let alone hearing the still small voice. The difference between Moses, Elijah and every other prophet is that they looked, saw, stopped, and listened. IMO we all get bushes and clouds all the time but simply ignore them because we are oblivious to the idea that any source but our own intellect and will has anything worthwhile to impart to us.
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Maybe so, but God also gave us the ability to reason…frankly if I heard “voices” from strange places, the first thing that would come to my mind is that I was going nuts and not that God was trying to speak to me…
 
The Bible is full of such incidents. My first thought would be that it is God.

Peace,
Ed
 
Heb 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
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I would think it was not God. Why should he speak through such means when he has spoken face to face with us and now dwells within us. When the Son has spoken, all that needs to be said has been.
 
rcjones said:
I would think it was not God. Why should he speak through such means when he has spoken face to face with us and now dwells within us. When the Son has spoken, all that needs to be said has been.
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The passage is referring to a time before Christ.
 
Vince1022 said:
The passage is referring to a time before Christ.
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I know. But the conversation doesn’t make the distinction. If the question only concerns the time before the cross, then I cannot imagine what my answer would be.

In the conversation the question is raised, would you kill your son. In light of the New Testament, the answer is no. In light of the New Testament, I would not wipe out everyone in a town or city. In light of the New Testament, now that we are to love our enemies as ourselves, now that death had been conquered and we need not fear it, in light of having received forgiveness, it is proper to die first than to do some of the things that OT people were asked to do.

God has asked us to live differently than he asked them.
 
rcjones said:
I know. But the conversation doesn’t make the distinction. If the question only concerns the time before the cross, then I cannot imagine what my answer would be.

In the conversation the question is raised, would you kill your son. In light of the New Testament, the answer is no. In light of the New Testament, I would not wipe out everyone in a town or city. In light of the New Testament, now that we are to love our enemies as ourselves, now that death had been conquered and we need not fear it, in light of having received forgiveness, it is proper to die first than to do some of the things that OT people were asked to do.

God has asked us to live differently than he asked them.
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oic. Thanks for the clarification.

In that light, any communication from God would likely appear “strange” to us (no matter the medium) because God’s ways are not our ways. I see your point. Thanks.
 
petras52 said:
So if this voice commanded you to slay your child, as in the old testament story, would you?
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I suspect this question is only asked out of a desire to show that God, or belief in God, incites violence. Faith in God, rightly discerned, reveals actual and spiritual truths. Just as God allowed His Son to be sacrificed, so did Abraham act faithfully toward God.

God bless,
Ed
 
rcjones said:
I would think it was not God. Why should he speak through such means when he has spoken face to face with us and now dwells within us. When the Son has spoken, all that needs to be said has been.
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Jesus has sent Mary in history with messages. God is still with His people today. He knows the depth of our unbelief. He knows about the lie that miracles no longer happen. Pope Benedict just elevated a man to sainthood. This requires two miracles. Miracles did not stop happening.

God bless,
Ed
 
=petras52;7258613]Why do you think God chooses to communicate with us in sometimes strange ways? These days if someone said they heard from God by way of a burning bush, talking cloud, or in a dream, how many of us would believe him? My guess is very few…
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Becaue dear friend, God knows the secret of selling.

FIRST GET THERE ATTENTION and hold it before trying “to sell” them.🙂
 
edwest2 said:
I suspect this question is only asked out of a desire to show that God, or belief in God, incites violence. Faith in God, rightly discerned, reveals actual and spiritual truths. Just as God allowed His Son to be sacrificed, so did Abraham act faithfully toward God.

God bless,
Ed
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Believe it or not, I haven’t even thought of it in the way you suspect I did…however your comment re God/violence does raise new questions in my mind…but I’ll just stay on topic in this post…
 
I wouldn’t want to put any restrictions on how God could talk to me. 🙂
 
The question is not only would you hear His voice, but would you KNOW Him?

Remember ladies and gentlemen - “That which you do for the least of these”…
 
Obviously, God didn’t start out with “Yo, Abram! You don’t know me, but I know you! Kill your kid for me, will ya?”

By the time we get to the Isaac story, Abraham had been talking to God off and on for at least thirty years, with miracles galore. Isaac was only born by a miracle, and was explicitly part of God’s promise that Abraham would have descendants as numerous as the stars. So it was logical for Abraham to assume that, if he did what God wanted, Isaac would be brought back from the dead with no harm done (which is what Paul says about it, and he’s writing inspired Scripture so it’s a darned good source).

(Now Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldeans, where the pagan belief was that Ishtar had gone down to the lands of the dead and come out again. The interesting bit is that people used to think that she went down to save Tammuz, but apparently she just went down and then had to find somebody to take her place, in order to get out. She picked Tammuz, because he wasn’t mourning her, and then Tammuz’ sister offered to go to the underworld for half the year. So that’s the kind of story that was out there, and thus Abraham may have been expecting for Isaac to be brought back from the dead and himself to have to take Isaac’s place in Sheol. But that’s all my speculation and not Paul.)

Anyway, Abraham wasn’t just listening to J. Random Voice. It was a matter of having had a long enough relationship with God to have trust, obedience, and a shrewd idea as to what God was up to. Not the correct idea, as it happened, but in the correct plan-of-salvation ballpark.
 
Oh, and the “patron god” of Ur was Nanna, the moon god, whose daughter Inanna/Ishtar was the one doing all the trekking to and from the underworld. He was also the patron god of Harran, the city where Abram’s father settled, instead of going on into Canaan as they had intended.

So yeah, pretty important part of Abraham’s cultural background.
 
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