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cheezey
Guest
I will, but was asking of your thought on the matter.
Thanks
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Thanks
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JRKH
Guest
Actually I started to compose a reply but I stopped because frankly it is something of a nuanced thing and trying to explore these kept making the reply too long and confusing.
That is why I suggested talking to your priest who can give a better answer to your specific case…
Peace
James
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Aloysium
Guest
sacrilege - too strong a word
If I may elaborate: Let us say I believed (as I have in the past) that the Eucharist was simply a re-enactment of the last supper and that the Host was only symbolic of the body of Christ; at the very least I would feel very uncomfortable participating in communion, knowing what it meant everyone else
Please correct me, if I fail to understand the Eucharist.
The Host becomes the actual body of Christ during the mass in which I participate.
Another Christian (a non-Catholic) may be in attendance during the mass because it is a place of God and he/she wants to be with other Christians. Whatever this person believes, the Host is the body of Christ. However, he/she would not believe it. This individual may during his/her prayers feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. Unless the person has a sudden conversion, I don’t understand how he could participate in communion. Would it not feel like one was diminishing something those around you held sacred? And, if the person truly believed that the Host was symbolic, would he not feel like he was betraying his faith and engaging is a superstitious ritual.
imho, altho we are on the same path, we are at different points along the journey, our views may at times even seem to contradict each other while still being true
this issue is more complicated than I first thought
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cheezey
Guest
For sure!!!
But if I am understanding your explanation correctly, how would the non Catholic be diminishing that which those around her/him believe, if that belief is the same? The sacredness is the same. It cannot happen, of course, without the Rite of Initiation. But of the Eucharist itself, what is being diminished?
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Aloysium
Guest
You ask an interesting question.
I think i’m going off topic, but in answer, I would say that it seems to be a matter of being true to oneself. How can I participate in communion in a Catholic Church, if I do not believe that I am eating the body of Christ? Should I engage in it anyway, because it is good for me. I am sure that a significant number of Catholics do not believe in Transubstantiation and also partake of the sacrament. They are taking in and making part of themselves, the body of Christ, whether they know it or not. But if one is of another faith, albeit Christian. I don’t know. If I went to some revival meeting where ppl were speaking in tongues, I would see it as some ecstatic nonsense; would it be right of me to act as they do. I suppose it boils down to whether it brought me closer to God.
In this light, I suppose I would answer the OP by saying that, having been informed by the teachings of the Church, the Holy Spirit makes me aware that the Host is the Body of Christ. The Holy Spirit at least is telling the person, with whom you were speaking, that it is important, if nothing else, to do this in memory of Christ.
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cheezey
Guest
Let me put it another way. If a Protestant - a rogue Protestant! - believes wholeheartedly in Transubstantiation, and if it were not for the RCIA, would that rogue diminish the sacredness of partaking in the Catholic Church? Theoretically, as the Church would not allow this anyway. A Protestant parktaking in the RCC believing it to be symbolical would diminish - and disrespect - the sacredness the Catholics hold in this matter. A Catholic partaking in the Protestant church would have no choice but to take it symbolically as there would be no consecration, no? This raises even more questions!
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cheezey
Guest
I feel as if this is becoming an Abbott and Costello routine…
All I know is that there will always be differences, some cut and dry,some not so much.
And then there are those people and issues that are gray matter. There is a Christian out there who understands Transubstantiation without even having realized it, since being of barely double digit age. It was not taught; it was from within. Since this is a significant difference between the two faiths, how does a Protestant, who would very much like to partake, do this? It is a start to go to the Episcopal Church, because it at least it can be received with the same liturgy.I see no problem with this. But since it means more to the rogue, of course it would be best to go the RCC. But they will not allow this and it is understandable as to why. And the poor rogue cannot seem to get anywhere with the simple yet profound rite of receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus. It just should not be this complicated. It’s begining to feel as if, when Jesus returns one day, He’ll say, “okay guys, now here’s where you were ALL wrong…”
The love of Christ is infinitely and inexplicably greater than all these hair-splitting analyses.
All I know is that there will always be differences, some cut and dry,some not so much.
And then there are those people and issues that are gray matter. There is a Christian out there who understands Transubstantiation without even having realized it, since being of barely double digit age. It was not taught; it was from within. Since this is a significant difference between the two faiths, how does a Protestant, who would very much like to partake, do this? It is a start to go to the Episcopal Church, because it at least it can be received with the same liturgy.I see no problem with this. But since it means more to the rogue, of course it would be best to go the RCC. But they will not allow this and it is understandable as to why. And the poor rogue cannot seem to get anywhere with the simple yet profound rite of receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus. It just should not be this complicated. It’s begining to feel as if, when Jesus returns one day, He’ll say, “okay guys, now here’s where you were ALL wrong…”
The love of Christ is infinitely and inexplicably greater than all these hair-splitting analyses.
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katholikos12
Guest
Its mainly just quotes that support them. I typically google “catholic answers X” and insert whatever subject for the “x” and there always have ECFs supporting the doctrines. Reading books on the big topics they taught is always good like the book “the Fathers of the Church”.
Honestly it doesn’t take much in my experience (albeit limited) to make an uninformed protestant go “huh? I’ll have to look into that”. The moment they say “the Catholics made the doctrines up at this and this council” I tell them that I can find ECFs who were talking about that subject long before and that the council merely formalized that which the Christians had been believing for often times centuries.
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katholikos12
Guest
For people who are serious about debating/talking about Catholicism vs Protestantism but ignore the history, all you can do is pray for them. I mean use the CCC and scripture, but to ignore history is idiotic – end of story.
Cardinal Newman said something to the extent of to be steeped in Church history is to cease to be protestant.
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bmonk
Guest
If you are referring to my post, I agree–it did perhaps come across as arrogant or condescending. The letter, I hope, was less so–I certainly tried my best. But in self-defense, I was pretty irritated by a Scripture expert (or someone who should at least know better) claiming that our practices had no basis in the Bible, challenging us to show him where they were found, when while driving, without access to a Bible, I knew where they were found. So my response was to his condescension, and to his misleading his followers.
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bmonk
Guest
I would not say that it’s a diminishment of the Eucharist or of the experience of the faithful. Where the problem lies is that the churches in question are not in communion. We either take communion seriously or not; Catholics take it pretty seriously. To be in communion is to share full membership in the one Body of Christ–to be in com-union = union with one another. We are not there. As St. Paul taught, “whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.” (1 Cor 11:27, 29) We desire to save them from sin, or at least not to place them into the danger of sin if we can.
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cheezey
Guest
Better stated. And no, we are not there yet. But just for the record, non Catholics take it seriously, also. Differently, yes, but also seriously.
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guanophore
Guest
I think you are right, it is primarily a spiritual problem that needs a spiritual solution. But I also think it helps to be able to back up the differing view that we have by bringing other passages to bear, as well as the Early Fathers, Councils, Creeds and the Tradition of the Church. None of these may influence those who will not listen, but there will always be some who are pursuaded by them, and we need to plant seeds. This will also help lapsed Catholics come back to the fullness of faith.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
To expanded more on this topic. I was listening to Catholic Radio this morning. I think it was a rebroadcast of Catholic Answers Live. Mr. Staples was on and a guy called in talking about evangelizing to non Catholics. He stated that JW keep coming to his door. He invites them in with one hand while holding a CCC in the other. (smart man!) He stated that he feels he is no longer making in progress and asked if he should continue.
My thoughts are that we are only asked to plant the seed. The seed is the Gospel of truth through Christ’s Church and Her teachings (which comes from Christ). Once w plant the “seed,” the Holy Spirit will make that seed sprout!! Praise God! There is another thread I am commenting on forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=747037 This thread is wonderful how a seed planted long ago, will always produce fruit. She was baptized as a child, and although she wishes to live for herself rather than God, her guilt (Holy Spirit) is drawing her back to the Church.
We can do the same when talking Scripture and Tradition with Protestants. We can plant that truth and pray that God will work on them. May He always show mercy upon us!
My thoughts are that we are only asked to plant the seed. The seed is the Gospel of truth through Christ’s Church and Her teachings (which comes from Christ). Once w plant the “seed,” the Holy Spirit will make that seed sprout!! Praise God! There is another thread I am commenting on forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=747037 This thread is wonderful how a seed planted long ago, will always produce fruit. She was baptized as a child, and although she wishes to live for herself rather than God, her guilt (Holy Spirit) is drawing her back to the Church.
We can do the same when talking Scripture and Tradition with Protestants. We can plant that truth and pray that God will work on them. May He always show mercy upon us!
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cheezey
Guest
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Cyberseeker
Guest
Not a bad idea
While you are praying for them, they are praying for you! The big winner is God who gets heaps of people praying for each other. 
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nguyengmtechn
Guest
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I totally agree. While we are praying that one another convertsNot a bad idea
, we are talking to God and giving praise and glory in his name.
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cheezey
Guest
Now THAT’S my goal…a top one, anyway…Not a bad idea
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Another point to keep the thread on topic is…How can you talk Scripture with someone who believes he/she can interpret Scripture however it pleases them? When I started a Bible Study, I always ask for a priest or deacon to be there. By doing so, it allows us to better understand the Scripture and not go off in a crazy direction or belief.
At a Protestant bible study this past summer, we read a verse in Matthew (I can’t remember the exact verse) and everyone had a different view of it. That is a wonderful example of why there are so many denominations.
At a Protestant bible study this past summer, we read a verse in Matthew (I can’t remember the exact verse) and everyone had a different view of it. That is a wonderful example of why there are so many denominations.
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