Talking to a Jehovah's Witness about prayer

[godo4657]

I just found out my friend wants to be baptized as a JW, she’s been studying with them for about 8 months. I live in Canada and she lives in Brazil, so we talk on MSN, and we’re picking religious topics to talk about each time we meet online. Our first topics are “images” and “prayer.” I’ve got the images part covered, but I don’t know what she means specifically about prayer. What do JW’s have against Catholic prayer? Prayer to Mary, or the Saints, or memorized prayers? What can I tell her about Catholic prayer? Are there any bible verses I can show her that say memorized prayer or prayer to the Saints is okay? I think JW’s believe that you can only pray to God through Jesus, and that the bible teaches against memorized prayer…
Any help is MUCH appreciated!!

 

[Anniejoe]

One of the verses that JWs will point to is Matthew 6:7, in which Jesus advises against praying "as the pagans do:, ie, using “vain repetitions”. Sometimes JWs will say that this is evidence that saying the Rosary is wrong (for instance). The key to this passage is the word “vain” not "repetitions, and also the fact that Jesus makes reference to the prayers of pagans. Pagans of his day would “babble” a set phrase over and over to a false deity. This is the context of the verse, not the prayers of believers.

In general, I have found it fruitless to try to discuss Christianity with JWs using any NT Scripture. Typically, they claim that any verses that don’t support their theology are deliberate mistranslations by “the Vatican”. I have a very close relative who was a JW missionary, and I have been talking to him about his beliefs for many years. You need to know that they use their own version of the NT. It is my experience that most JWs are sincere, well-intentioned people who misunderstand Church’s teachings about the Trinity. My best advise to you is to constantly point your friend towards OT verses that proclaim who Christ is. Isaiah 9:6 is the best, in my opinion. Good luck! I’ll be praying for your effort to help your friend.

 

[Anniejoe]

As for praying to Saints: JWs claim that it is impossible to talk to Mary or any Saints, because they do not believe in a soul that survives death. They believe that the body is all there is, and when the body dies, a person stays in the grave until the Judgement Day. After that, they believe the bodies of a select number will be resurrected for eternal life on a new earth. They do not believe that any soul or spirit is in Heaven now, therefore, they think praying to any human who ever died is pointless at best and praying to a false idol at worst.

 

[godo4657]

Thank you SO much! I talked with my friend and she said it all makes sense !

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Rev 7:9 The great throng before the throne of God is NOT DEAD, as Steve Ray says “Who says the Saints are Dead???” The DEAD are in HELL - JW’s don’t believe in that but point out no one talks about Hell more that Jesus does.

I showed my JW friend (we’ve discussing RCC vs JW for 8-9 years) websites of Lourdes, the names of people healed officially. I’ve showed her the Book “The Incorruptibles” by Joan Carroll Cruz - I’ve been to London & saw the incorrupt body of St. John Southworth in the Westminster Cathedral. Explained he was killed 15th Cent during torture & murder of many Catholics. This man was drawn & quartered. His body was taken to Douay, France & exhumed 150 or so years later to be found incorrupt. So they have him in a glass case as you walk into the Cathedral.

This is very puzzling to a JW. I go on to explain this is limited to CATHOLICS only & those groups ex like Coptic - attached to Rome. I asked my friend why does this happen and why to Catholics ONLY& most of them are on path to sainthood or are saints. She has no answer.

Another case: Brother Andre in Montreal at St. Joseph’s Oratory. My mother saw him when she was little. Hundreds of steps outside where are worn as people said Rosary on their knees going up the steep hill, praying up a storm. Walk into the entry of the Oratory & 1000’s of crutches, appliances left where people were healed through Brother Andre. Explain that. I saw those crutches with my own eyes.

Ask your friend:
Do JW’s have evidence of miracles?
WORSE YET, DO JW’S HAVE EVIDENCE OF ANY CHARITIES???
HOW DO THEY IMPLEMENT THE CORPORAL WORKS OF MERCY???
…feed the hungry, clothe the naked, bury the dead…

Ask her where does she plan to help out when she is “in” - Christians are very well known for their volunteer efforts especially in but not limited to: soup kitchens, orphanages, any hospitals, schools, Universities, retirement centers, St Vincent de Paul centers with household items, clothing, food banks, cemetaries even… do the JW have a food bank where you can help out? Do the JW’s have a soup kitchen where you can help out…

Do they have anything that reaches out to those less fortunate??? I asked my friend this, listing off the above and she was TOTALY SILENT, this stopped her dead in her tracks, a real “gotcha” moment & made her think. As, we all know, they have NOTHING to offer anyone but the higher ups @ the WTBTS and they are tough masters.

 

[Michel2]

One of the verses that JWs will point to is Matthew 6:7, in which Jesus advises against praying "as the pagans do:, ie, using “vain repetitions”. Sometimes JWs will say that this is evidence that saying the Rosary is wrong (for instance). The key to this passage is the word “vain” not "repetitions, and also the fact that Jesus makes reference to the prayers of pagans. Pagans of his day would “babble” a set phrase over and over to a false deity. This is the context of the verse, not the prayers of believers.

In general, I have found it fruitless to try to discuss Christianity with JWs using any NT Scripture. Typically, they claim that any verses that don’t support their theology are deliberate mistranslations by “the Vatican”. I have a very close relative who was a JW missionary, and I have been talking to him about his beliefs for many years. You need to know that they use their own version of the NT. It is my experience that most JWs are sincere, well-intentioned people who misunderstand Church’s teachings about the Trinity. My best advise to you is to constantly point your friend towards OT verses that proclaim who Christ is. Isaiah 9:6 is the best, in my opinion. Good luck! I’ll be praying for your effort to help your friend.

I’m in complete agreement with the above statements and would add only that you research the history of the Bible, you can find the answers on CAF; I just read an article on the Bible today and I simply can’t remember the thread that I found the link on. Also I was married to a JW for 12 years and can assure you that your work to make your friend understand the truth will be very difficult. There are none so blind as those who will not see!
Michel

 

[Michel2]

I’m in complete agreement with the above statements and would add only that you research the history of the Bible, you can find the answers on CAF; I just read an article on the Bible today and I simply can’t remember the thread that I found the link on. Also I was married to a JW for 12 years and can assure you that your work to make your friend understand the truth will be very difficult. There are none so blind as those who will not see!
Michel

I just found the link for the Bible History.
catholicapologetics.info/…ism/wbible.htm