Talking to a woman after mass

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I think at this point in the acquaintance, she’ll say yes if you’re at least mildly interesting and attractive unless 1) you give off creepiness vibes 2) she already has somebody 3) there’s some sort of extra issue in her life that has nothing to do with you (nasty work schedule, family responsibilities, etc.).

The only thing that you can control on that list is not giving out creepiness vibes, and inviting her out sooner rather than later will keep you from accidentally being socially inappropriate by following her around church, staring at her, or monopolizing her at coffee (it sounds like you are in some danger of accidentally doing the last thing).
 
I think at this point in the acquaintance, she’ll say yes if you’re at least mildly interesting and attractive unless 1) you give off creepiness vibes 2) she already has somebody 3) there’s some sort of extra issue in her life that has nothing to do with you (nasty work schedule, family responsibilities, etc.).

The only thing that you can control on that list is not giving out creepiness vibes, and inviting her out sooner rather than later will keep you from accidentally being socially inappropriate by following her around church, staring at her, or monopolizing her at coffee (it sounds like you are in some danger of accidentally doing the last thing).
I wanted to reply to all of those posts since my last one, but there are too many, so I’ll start here.
Totally agree with the assessment that I need to ask her out (hence my frustration last Sunday), but I disagree on the “monopolizing” part- it’s only happened twice. Do it a couple more times and yeah, I think that would be weird/unusual. I am pretty sure I have managed to not be creepy so far, thankfully.
Asking her out is the only thing left for me to do…I just need an opportunity. I already have some good restaurants in mind and a couple of different days that she can choose from if a particular one doesn’t fit her schedule.

Courage isn’t the issue- I had every intention of asking her out but that other guy joining us made me reticent to do so. The only other thing that bugs me (besides not knowing if she says yes or no) is when I should ask for her phone number/contact info?
 
rkwittem said:

“Pretty much totally agree with the assessment that I need to ask her out, but I disagree on the “monopolizing” part. She can say no, and it’s only happened twice.”

I didn’t say you’re doing it, just that it’s a danger at a large public event to accidentally corner somebody and monopolize them when they were just planning to do some light mingling. That’s why it’s not an ideal venue for getting to know somebody–that’s what dates are for. (Even outside the romantic sphere, it’s easy to accidentally over-do a conversation in a large social setting. I’ve done it, we’ve all done it.) Also, a date guarantees you her undivided attention.

“Courage isn’t the issue- I had every intention of asking her out but that other guy joining us made me reticent to do so. The only other thing that bugs me (besides not knowing if she says yes or no) is when I should ask for her phone number/contact info?”

The next time you see her, mentioning that you’d like to get together later in the week, so could you have her phone number/email address?

By the way, I see from reading Dear Wendy (which is a secular site that is very good on dating stuff) that a lot of guys (and gals) overdo texting. Don’t do too much texting before you’ve gone out a couple times. Texting can be viewed as annoying and superficial and flaky. Aziz Ansari has some very funny thoughts here on how texting has ruined dating:

youtube.com/watch?v=famV1eKsekg

Oh, and definitely don’t touch your phone while you’re out with her!
 
Texting will not be a huge issue for me. I get uncommonly good battery life out of my cell phone (not a smartphone, either). My friends ask why…I just tell them that my secret is that I rarely use my phone, unless it’s a day off or an emergency.

Just a matter now of waiting, being patient and not over-thinking it. And I am 100% sure she will be there, she told me she’s reading this Sunday.
 
Hopefully, you don’t mention the word relationship, as someone seemed to suggest. That sends most people packing.

It’s just a date. You are young. That is what young people do. Date. No biggie.

The role of the guy is to ask for dates. The girl has the choice how far the dating will go. Take one date at a time and see what happens. Or one encounter at a time.
 
OP make sure to have more than one woman in your dating plans. You mentioned texting, that’s good, text lots of girls. Texting is pretty much the central component of the dating game these days, and you don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb. Make sure you have the latest smartphone too because you don’t want to look out of the loop when it comes to dating.

Like many posters have said in this thread you need to avoid looking “creepy” and “needy”, and the best way to internalize this is to have lots of women on deck. Don’t get too attached to one woman, and don’t start to idealize her because what dating experience offers you is the truth that most women are not worth this agonizing. Women also tend to like men who are liked by other woman, that is pre-approved by other women, and having lots of women lined up in your dating plans is the way to effect this as well.

Also, just a heads up when getting dating advice from women, when they say “don’t be creepy/don’t give off the creepy vibes”, what they mean is “if you’re going to hit on me out of the blue, you had better be attractive”. I’m guessing that if you see yourself as higher than a 7/10 in the looks department, you can rest assured that a woman is not going to get any “creepiness” vibes when you ask her out.

And as another poster said, make sure you don’t have any honorable intentions with this woman, do not think about a “relationship” or go into dating with the mind set that you’re going to marry this woman. Women these days tend to put marriage off for their careers and having fun, so you coming in with honorable intentions is going to be a huge turn off. What tends to attract women of the marriage age these days is men who are a little on the narcissistic side, who are looking out for their fun and good times, which women in turn find very interesting and want to be attached to this man. If you’ve ever gotten it into your head that a man is supposed to be the “provider” in a relationship, I suggest banishing that because the only thing that women these days want men to provide for them is fun and something spicy to spark up their boring lives.
 
Estevao said:

“Women also tend to like men who are liked by other woman, that is pre-approved by other women, and having lots of women lined up in your dating plans is the way to effect this as well.”

“Lots of women” is probably unrealistic for most guys. It’s expensive to pay for all those first dates, as well as being demoralizing. And if it’s just text contact, that’s not real. I’ve seen a lot of criticism from women online about guys from dating sites who text them a lot and then fizzle out before meeting them–it’s like these guys are much more comfortable communicating electronically, but don’t have the guts to actually meet in person.

“And as another poster said, make sure you don’t have any honorable intentions with this woman, do not think about a “relationship” or go into dating with the mind set that you’re going to marry this woman. Women these days tend to put marriage off for their careers and having fun, so you coming in with honorable intentions is going to be a huge turn off.”

The median age at first marriage for US women is currently around 26 years old. If she graduates from college at 22 (and a lot of people take longer than that), then that means she has 4 years to have fun, work, meet a guy, get serious, get engaged and get married. That is an awful lot of stuff to fit into 4 years, even without any false starts. And that’s just a median–lots of women get married earlier. (Actually, in our area, we joke that a wedding makes a GREAT college senior project.)

infoplease.com/ipa/A0005061.html

“If you’ve ever gotten it into your head that a man is supposed to be the “provider” in a relationship, I suggest banishing that because the only thing that women these days want men to provide for them is fun and something spicy to spark up their boring lives.”

That depends very much on class and social milieu. Piano lessons and summer camp don’t pay for themselves, you know.

There’s a funny scene from the comedy “The Hebrew Hammer” (warning–bad language) where the hero’s love interest asks him to talk dirty to her.

youtube.com/watch?v=voFeNKjovdY

Not to step all over the joke, but what really turns her on is him talking about a house in a nice neighborhood, private school for their kids, and music lessons. That’s a joke about what Jewish women want, but an educated Catholic woman will want something very similar for her kids.

“Also, just a heads up when getting dating advice from women, when they say “don’t be creepy/don’t give off the creepy vibes”, what they mean is “if you’re going to hit on me out of the blue, you had better be attractive”. I’m guessing that if you see yourself as higher than a 7/10 in the looks department, you can rest assured that a woman is not going to get any “creepiness” vibes when you ask her out.”

Even if you’re good looking, it’s entirely possible to act (indeed, to be) creepy. (Also, to be very honest, physical attractiveness is not that important for guys. As long as you are of average height and not terribly pimply, have decent hygiene, and acceptable clothing, you’re good.)

You need to remember that you’re probably a head taller than her and at least 50 pounds heavier than her (not to mention having much greater upper body strength). If you turned out not to be a perfect gentleman, she would be in a lot of physical danger from you.

I confess, though, that creepiness is very situationally dependent. When I was first dating my future husband, we seemed to bump into each other a lot. Only after we knew each other much better did I discover that when I’d told him the classes I was taking, he had noted them down and familiarized himself with my schedule. Hence, he found it easy to bump into me. Now, I could have found that creepy when I found out about it, but as it happened, I liked him enough that I found it charmingly romantic. If I didn’t like him, it would have been creepy.
 
Early dates shouldn’t be dinner or movies. Dinner at a nice restaurant is a lot of money; I’ve had too many experiences of paying for a nice dinner on an early date for someone I never got anywhere with. Can’t tell you how much I spent on nice dinners on first or second dates before I wised up. I don’t like movies for early dates either because there’s no talking to each other while the movie is on. Early dates are for getting to know each other, for the guy to figure out if he can make her laugh, the girl to figure out if she likes him at the end as much as she did in the beginning, for the two to find out their common values and their chemistry. Cheap dates that involve walking around are good. Museums are good, lots of conversation starter topics in those places. Google is your friend for researching cheap date ideas. You’re not asking to marry her, don’t get ahead of yourself.

Another thing is do not let the world revolve around this one … unless you wind up marrying her. If this one doesn’t work out, that’s okay, at your age, there’s always another nice Catholic girl somewhere though it might take some work on your part to find her.
 
I’d be elated if a Catholic guy asked me out after a mass. Unfortunately, that has never occurred. I actually have never dated an active Catholic, and gave up trying to get a Catholic guy. Secular guys ask me out all the time, and I have dated many of them as a result.

Hope this helps.
That’s funny… although I’m of a certain age, there aren’t any women in my current parish who have shown any interest. Heck that was true of my last parish. I can’t be that ugly because I get dates with secular women when I do get out the door. It is what it is, I don’t worry about it.

One more remark: Bill Martin has way too much time on his hands …🙂
But he does have a point about cleaning out your cars. Girls can be guilty of this too. Once in awhile, I get interested in someone and then I see the inside of her car and whoa! mini hurricane inside! For the single ladies in the audience, that’s a major turnoff, I can imagine what her home looks like and I don’t feel like verifying that. I’m not a major clean freak, but I pick up after myself and I expect her to get that handled in her life.
 
OP make sure to have more than one woman in your dating plans. You mentioned texting, that’s good, text lots of girls. Texting is pretty much the central component of the dating game these days, and you don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb. Make sure you have the latest smartphone too because you don’t want to look out of the loop when it comes to dating.

Like many posters have said in this thread you need to avoid looking “creepy” and “needy”, and the best way to internalize this is to have lots of women on deck. Don’t get too attached to one woman, and don’t start to idealize her because what dating experience offers you is the truth that most women are not worth this agonizing. Women also tend to like men who are liked by other woman, that is pre-approved by other women, and having lots of women lined up in your dating plans is the way to effect this as well.

Also, just a heads up when getting dating advice from women, when they say “don’t be creepy/don’t give off the creepy vibes”, what they mean is “if you’re going to hit on me out of the blue, you had better be attractive”. I’m guessing that if you see yourself as higher than a 7/10 in the looks department, you can rest assured that a woman is not going to get any “creepiness” vibes when you ask her out.

And as another poster said, make sure you don’t have any honorable intentions with this woman, do not think about a “relationship” or go into dating with the mind set that you’re going to marry this woman. Women these days tend to put marriage off for their careers and having fun, so you coming in with honorable intentions is going to be a huge turn off. What tends to attract women of the marriage age these days is men who are a little on the narcissistic side, who are looking out for their fun and good times, which women in turn find very interesting and want to be attached to this man. If you’ve ever gotten it into your head that a man is supposed to be the “provider” in a relationship, I suggest banishing that because the only thing that women these days want men to provide for them is fun and something spicy to spark up their boring lives.
What??? Oh, please don’t take ANY of this seriously or follow any of this advice. I can’t think of a word of this that is true. In fact, it is mostly the opposite of all this that is true.

That entire post shows a lack of understanding of woman and is pretty sexist.

Women do NOT want guys who have other women “on deck”. That is a turn off. It is much more likely that a woman would admire a man who has good, solid male friendships and maybe even a good female friend as well, and good family relationships.

Women do not like texting games, especially when they find out you are texting other women. Same goes for phone calls. Playing those games will lead to trouble and drama. And you will hurt someone.

The idea is to be different, if everyone is texting or whatever. You want to stick out. You want the girl you are interested in to think, “I like him, he is different than most guys.”

Only a superficial person would base their attraction on someone on having the latest Smart Phone.

And, last but not least, women love a good provider!
 
Zzyx Road said:

“That’s funny… although I’m of a certain age, there aren’t any women in my current parish who have shown any interest. Heck that was true of my last parish. I can’t be that ugly because I get dates with secular women when I do get out the door. It is what it is, I don’t worry about it.”

I think a parish is just too small a pool. I’m making up numbers here, but let’s say that 50% of people are the wrong gender, 50% of the remainder are the wrong age, 50% of the people the right age are happily married, 50% of the remainder are divorced, etc.

I think you need a bigger pool of appropriate people for dating.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:

“That entire post shows a lack of understanding of woman and is pretty sexist.”

Let’s grant that it may be true of SOME women–namely shallow, immature wenches. Do you guys really want to attract and marry a shallow, immature wench? If not, don’t do stuff that is guaranteed to repel higher-quality women.
 
OP make sure to have more than one woman in your dating plans. You mentioned texting, that’s good, text lots of girls. Texting is pretty much the central component of the dating game these days, and you don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb. Make sure you have the latest smartphone too because you don’t want to look out of the loop when it comes to dating.
If this is true, I’m sunk! I’m 23, by the way.
 
Zzyx Road said:

“Dinner at a nice restaurant is a lot of money”

Depending on the definition of “nice.” In bigger cities, there are cute little ethnic places with prices in single digits (I personally LOVE Indian lunch buffets). Lunch out is also a good option.

I would be very careful about omitting food from a date or skimping too much on it.

Judith Martin (who writes under the name “Miss Manners” has this advice about dates:

“There are three possible parts to a date, of which at least two must be offered: entertainment, food, and affection. It is customary to begin a series of dates with a great deal of entertainment, a moderate amount of food, and the merest suggestion of affection. As the amount of affection increases, the entertainment can be reduced proportionately. When the affection IS the entertainment, we no longer call it dating. Under no circumstances can the food be omitted.”

goodreads.com/quotes/2922-there-are-three-possible-parts-to-a-date-of-which
 
I wanted to reply to all of those posts since my last one, but there are too many, so I’ll start here.
Totally agree with the assessment that I need to ask her out (hence my frustration last Sunday), but I disagree on the “monopolizing” part- it’s only happened twice. Do it a couple more times and yeah, I think that would be weird/unusual. I am pretty sure I have managed to not be creepy so far, thankfully.
Asking her out is the only thing left for me to do…I just need an opportunity. I already have some good restaurants in mind and a couple of different days that she can choose from if a particular one doesn’t fit her schedule.

Courage isn’t the issue- I had every intention of asking her out but that other guy joining us made me reticent to do so. The only other thing that bugs me (besides not knowing if she says yes or no) is when I should ask for her phone number/contact info?
Next time you see her, ask her out to dinner. If she says yes, ask for her phone number so you can call to arrange details. I would have asked for her number the first time you had coffee.

You need to show active interest, but don’t over-think this.

God Bless and good luck.
 
Zzyx Road said:

“Dinner at a nice restaurant is a lot of money”

Depending on the definition of “nice.” In bigger cities, there are cute little ethnic places with prices in single digits (I personally LOVE Indian lunch buffets). Lunch out is also a good option.

I would be very careful about omitting food from a date or skimping too much on it.

Judith Martin (who writes under the name “Miss Manners” has this advice about dates:

“There are three possible parts to a date, of which at least two must be offered: entertainment, food, and affection. It is customary to begin a series of dates with a great deal of entertainment, a moderate amount of food, and the merest suggestion of affection. As the amount of affection increases, the entertainment can be reduced proportionately. When the affection IS the entertainment, we no longer call it dating. Under no circumstances can the food be omitted.”

goodreads.com/quotes/2922-there-are-three-possible-parts-to-a-date-of-which
I suggest Judith Martin is writing for women and doesn’t really have any idea what’s happening on the man’s side. I’m speaking as a man among many men I know with way too much negative experience with spending too much to be dismissed out of hand like that. Coffee and pastries, that still involves food without spending a lot; this is adequate for first dates. Again, I find that if a woman objects to the cheap nature of the date then she has just shown me her true nature and I will thank her for letting me know even as I delete her phone number. A girl who really likes a guy isn’t going to mind the low expense of the initial dates because she sees the bright side: the opportunity to spend time with him. If after the first few dates, they are getting along well and want to continue, then lunch or dinner is appropriate. Have to remember we’re Catholics, we’re not to rush into bed… taking time let the relationship unfold is a good thing and will allow for proper discernment for marriage.
 
Zzyx Road said:

“Coffee and pastries, that still involves food without spending a lot; this is adequate for first dates.”

Coffee and pastry for one is around $5, ditto for frozen yogurt. Meanwhile, you can get a nice lunch (or even an ethnic dinner) for one for under $10. As far as bang for your buck goes, lunch or dinner costs more, but I think the money goes farther. It’s not a huge distinction, unless money is tight. Obviously, don’t bother unless she’s a likely. If it’s the very first time you lay eyes on her or if you’re trying to keep it casual, coffee is perfectly fine. It’s just not all that cheaper, particularly not if you wind up paying for admission somewhere. You can pay for lunch or an inexpensive dinner and then do a free or almost free activity and not look cheap.

Not to belabor the obvious, but a guy who can’t take a girl out to a $10 noodle place is a guy who can’t afford a family.
 
My perspective is I’m trying to plot a getaway to a water park next summer with my husband, and it’s probably going to cost somewhere between $10-15 an hour to park our three kids with a sitter. Even if we just use season passes and each have a sausage for lunch or dinner, we’re going to be out $40 at least just for a few hours of innocent amusement.

Being a single guy is CHEAP compared to actually having a family.
 
Xantippe, you’re not seeing things from my perspective. I’m going to ask you a simple question: do you see your husband as a meal ticket? Ok, I’m sure you don’t, but too many women do and I’m sure you know a few of those. If I spend money, all I have shown her is I can spend money. That’s it. Great for those hunting for meal tickets. I can afford to pay more, but I never get good results from it. Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results.

I understand about family and family expenses, I was one of six and I can tell you if my mother ever saw my father primarily as a meal ticket, there’s no way they would still be married in their old age. Possibly no way they would have married in the first place. Their first date was they met in a park one afternoon to play chess, they were introduced there by my father’s best friend. Imagine my mother saying you guys are too cheap! But no, she didn’t think that, she was charmed by my father’s personality and the rest is family history. That is the importance of making a genuine connection, the kind that last. That’s the connection I’m looking for and it doesn’t come via money. I think that message has been lost in the sea of those who try to justify spending more on a first or second date.
 
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