Talking to friends oppose abortion but want to keep it legal

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Draw your friends out. Ask exactly what should be kept legal. I’ve talked to many people who say they think abortion should be kept legal, but when confronted with late term abortion/partial birth abortion, they said, no that should be outlawed. I think many people who are pro choice are exactly that, people should be allowed to have a choice in the matter. Their logic is that God allows man the right and ability to choose to disregard His law, why should man deny another man that choice. A rather slippery slope, but a slope nonetheless. I have found that many pro choice people are amenable to limiting abortion to first term, and even only to situations such as rape, incest, or pregnancy as a result of physical abuse by a spouse. They are amenable to limiting abortion to very strict circumstances. c c
 
Oh, and by the way. If you are looking for that “A Hah, gotcha!” moment where your argument “wins the day.” It probably won’t happen. In fact, zealously attacking their POV will probably do more “harm” than good.
I had a friend (male, my age, now deceased) who was Methodist but we would get into discussions about things religious and the varying viewpoints of the two denominations. (I’m RC). Initially he was totally pro-choice. We had a number of discussions of the pro and con, right/wrong nature of abortion. We didn’t come to any agreement then and there. But about a year later we were having a beer and watching a Pirates game in our favorite tavern when, out of the blue, he said, “you know, I’ve been thinking about your positions on abortion, and I agree.” He became, in his church, a staunch pro life advocate.

My suggestion is speak your truth clearly and quietly. Find the good solid pro life arguments and expound on them. Then, part friends, stay in contact, and you never know just how the Lord will use your words.

Shalom!
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I’m not sure how they would respond to that question. Probably something about separation of church and state
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I think that when arguing about abortion then it is usually best to argue on purely rational grounds without bringing the Church into it. Is it not the duty of a civilised and moral society to protect the weak and vulnerable from being killed? Who is weaker or more vulnerable than an unborn child?
 
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Brendan_64 said:
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mrsdizzyd:
I’m not sure how they would respond to that question. Probably something about separation of church and state
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I think that when arguing about abortion then it is usually best to argue on purely rational grounds without bringing the Church into it.
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Makes sense to me, but considering that their entire system of reasoning (as far as it goes) is based on a distinction between God and state, I’d hardly expect them to be willing to set that aside.
 
I would pose this:

“If you truly believe life begins in the womb, then allowing for legal abortion is allowing for legal murder. Can a child be murdered immediately after birth? If no, why? Can the child be aborted at 9 months? If no, why. Can it be aborted at 8 months? If no, why? Can it be aborted at 7? If no, why. Etc. A fetus has it’s OWN DNA, separate from the mother, at conception. The heart begins beating at 6 weeks. At four weeks the brain is already developing. These are scientific facts, not opinion. The only thing that separates a fetus from a newborn is the location. One is inside a womb, one is out. If you believe it would be wrong to end that babies life after birth you must believe it is wrong to end its life INSIDE the womb. The mothers rights cannot trump the child’s. They both have an equal right to live.”
 
With me, I think it’s a matter of the heart, not reason. And as I said in my earlier post, when I talked with my closest friend right after I started this discussion, she ended up evangelizing me. I had misread her. I need to pray for God to give me insight and not use my assumptions.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
Makes sense to me, but considering that their entire system of reasoning (as far as it goes) is based on a distinction between God and state, I’d hardly expect them to be willing to set that aside
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Then why do they agree with the state having laws against murder? Will God not hold people acountable for murder? So why then do we need laws that make murder illegal?
 
I honestly think people don’t realize the reality of what a fetus is. We are told time and again that it’s just ‘a clump of cells’. I think speaking about the real science is actually quite shocking for some people. Some honestly don’t know. So I like to spread the reality wherever possible.
 
I learned something very important. A Sacred Scripture instructs us in Proverbs 3:5:

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart, on your own intelligence do not rely…” I was relying on my opinions, not on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Like I said before, they would probably make some argument about separation of church and state.

As I said initially, these conversations have gone no where. I just pray for them.
 
I have had these discussions. I usually keep it focused on a logically consistent train of thought.
  1. If I believe life begins at conception then I MUST believe it is murder to end that life.
  2. If I believe it is murder to end that life, then I MUST fight for abortion to be illegal.
I have never had anyone argue with me when I explain it that way. I am very insistent on the IF. So that I"m not telling them THEY must believe it but explaining that if I believe it, then I must act in a logically consistent way.
 
Put it in any other context. “I’m against child pornography, but want to keep it legal.” Prostitution, selling one’s own organs, etc.
 
Church teaching is inspired by the Holy Spirit. How exactly did your friend evangelize you?
 
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@SeriousQuestion, I had totally misjudged her views. In fact, she had thought about this way more deeply than I had. Here’s but one thing she said: “If babies are just a clump of cells, how many couples who can’t have children would want that clump of cells in mother’s womb?”

In case I have misstated, she was saying, that clump of cells is a baby.

When we got to the political end of it, I realized I had been clueless about her views. So I said, “If there were a plebiscite tomorrow, would you vote to ban abortion?” And she said yes she would.

In the end, she educated me.

Does that make sense?

As far as the Holy Spirit, I need to listen to him rather just plunging in and assuming I know what’s in peoples’ hearts. I need to pray.
 
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