Talking to God / Jesus while drunk

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lilsheep88
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Quote from Alan: But if you think you are not consuming alcohol from a standpoint of body chemistry and ability to test clean, then I think you may be in for some bad news.

Alan,listen to the eternal truth from the Gospels: *"Jesus said to him in reply,“It also says you shall not put the Lord,our God to the test” *
Luke 4:12
 
It almost feels like it doesn’t matter what you say to some people they just want to keep doing what they are doing and try to make the truth relativistic so that it can fit their lifestyle and they can do as they please. It’s real simple study the Doctors of the Church and the Catechism and to those who think smoking pot or drinking to excess isn’t a sin you will discover otherwise. Those who seek shall find.
 
Well,I don’t drink because I don’t like the taste of anything contain alcohol,also because I don’t need anything to give me courage to speak and I don’t drink anything with alcohol because I have no need to mess up my brains. (And I think drunk people are stupid.) I also have a personal reason to not drink. I maybe sometime will tell it but let us leave it for later threads.
I’m glad you don’t need alcohol, and I see you’ve answered my question. When you are saying it is no longer alcohol, based on the “mess up my brains” remark, I know you are talking about its chemical properties and its effects on the human body.
When it comes to Communion the Church leave us totally depending on our faith. My faith tells me that the Communion,the bread and the vine,turn in to Christ’s Body and Blood. If I would not believe that I would not believe in anything that has to do with the Church.
So far so good. The substance of the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ. Nobody understands how this happens, but that’s what we profess.
I am flabbergasted that Catholic’s think it is still vine and bread. Why then receive it at all? In fact,why bother to attend mass at all? Stay home. Where are your faith my friend?
My faith is such that it is not challenged by somebody questioning whether I’m right, nor do I feel obligated to change my opinion because an Internet poster said I should.

My faith listens and learns as it speaks, and when something makes no sense to me, I’m going to ask about it until I find out either what is being told to me is wrong, or how it is that it is right given whatever else I know.

Actually I like you and I assure you I would love to agree with you, if only you were right. But when I challenge you regarding whether your body is receiving alcohol, instead of coming back to me with research, you come back questioning my faith. And I can tell from your answer you neither did the research nor understood it before your original misstatement. I did the research and it backs up what I said before. When you drink the precious blood, you receive the substance of the Eucharist which is the Body and Blood of Christ. However, your physical body also receives the accidents of bread and wine, and because of that, yes your body chemistry behaves the same as would have if it had received the wine before it was consecrated, so yes it gets you drunk the same way.

[SIGN]“Like I Said Before.” :D[/SIGN]

It took me less than five minutes to back up my position. You would do well when someone challenges you to take five minutes before you question their faith and readmit the same wrong argument.

Maybe a little quote from Albert Einstein applies here: “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
… I don’t recall who they was but still…are pretty much turning against the RCC and their faith. How did that happen? How do you explain that a) I am wrong and a bit crazy or b) you really don’t believe in everything. You can’t be a Christian on Sunday and forget it all for the week. It is like being “just a bit pregnant”.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you suggesting that when I correct you on something you are wrong about and you decide that instead of checking it out you would just repeat the same false assertions, that I am turning my back on the Church? That I’m a “Sunday only” Christian? That I don’t believe anything? Pretty harsh for someone who told you the truth. Instead of receiving it OR taking three minutes to look it up, OR asking for more details, you decide to repeat the erroneous.

Dude, like I said, I like you, but I think you need to hear what I’m saying. Hang with me a while. I like your enthusiasm and your faith, but we need to work on your style of resolving disagreements. 😉
Quote from Alan: But if you think you are not consuming alcohol from a standpoint of body chemistry and ability to test clean, then I think you may be in for some bad news.

Alan,listen to the eternal truth from the Gospels: *"Jesus said to him in reply,“It also says you shall not put the Lord,our God to the test” *
Luke 4:12
Back atcha. 😉

Peace and Joy,
Alan
 
Oops. Technical difficulties with this post. I will try to fix it before I run out of time. If not I wlil fix it offline and repost.
 
My faith is such that it is not challenged by somebody questioning whether I’m right, nor do I feel obligated to change my opinion because an Internet poster said I should.

My faith listens and learns as it speaks, and when something makes no sense to me, I’m going to ask about it until I find out either what is being told to me is wrong, or how it is that it is right given whatever else I know.
I just noticed I left out an important point I meant to include:

OTOH, my faith always questions itself, probing for weaknesses and fixing them upon finding them. When others question me, a red flag is set in my mind until it is resolved, and my faith searches for the answer, if not actively then passively. My faith delights in looking up the material to understand it more deeply, and if it is needed, to renew itself with that flaw erased.

Never question your beliefs as soon as you think you know them for sure – even those you hold most dear – and you will never grow, my friend.

…

That’s the point I meant to include right after the part quoted above. Now adding the following at this time:

I learned a long time ago that you make more friends proving others right than by proving yourself right. Both teach, both correct the error if there is any, but one focuses on the error and the other focuses on the right answer.

You see? My logic is screwy. When I end up at loggerheads with another poster, I actually get a kick out of it if I find out I was wrong. I love to see people get a boost of confidence.

It’s fun to apologize, and it’s fun to say things to build other people up. It’s fun to find out I was wrong in a public way, because I like to demonstrate to people the way I react when I find out I’m wrong, because it seems to make other people like me, and then they come to my rescue on later posts by helping either to defend me, or to correct me using acceptable, friendly language that you know I can understand because we have played tug of war and felt of each other’s battle tactics. They gain and it shows. So to me when I’m wrong I love it because when somebody else corrects me, I get all happy and stuff, and then all the posters and lurkers get group warm fuzzies over it. But then I change and quit being wrong. No point in repeating the error; there will be plenty more errors down the road to use.

So Being Right is not always in my strategy at any given moment. This is something that came out of my Lenten observation this year, to fast from my need to feel like I am right. That did me more good socially, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, then maybe all of the others I’ve ever had put together. Oh wait, there was one better one; about ten years ago I challenged myself to read at least one chapter starting at gospel of John every day in Lent – ended up reading many chapters each day it was so compelling.

When I was young I was the little nerd and always had the right answer, and the kids knew that especially in math I was much more likely than the crummy math teachers we had, or the answer book, what the real correct answer was. I won the math contest in seventh grade out of 420 competing schools in the Chicago archdiocese. But I was socially clueless. But other kids pretty much left me alone because I was tutoring some of them, including the popular kids, after school every week at their house or mine, and they didn’t want me to spill the beans. Also kids would ask me to show them a different way to do something than the teacher did to help them understand, or they would ask me for a second opinion out of earshot of the teachers, so I was useful to them.

When I was in college, I would be at a party, trying to smile and nod and listen and keep my foot out of my mouth, by keeping the attention off me. Then of course there comes the question, “what’s your major” and in no time it would be discovered that I was not an Indiana State student and inevitably a person in the group would say, “you go to ROSE? Oh, WOW. YOU must be SMART.” I would awkwardly smile and try to say something distracting. I hated that. I didn’t mind being different, but sometimes I wanted to cover up the differences and enjoy fellowship with people who don’t think for some crazy reason that I think I’m better than them.

Alan
 
Alan,my friend. You are upset because you fumble around in that gray area between “believe or not”. I assume you practice your faith? If you do so you really not need to search the “right answers” from any other book then the Bible. It is important to know much but more important is to believe even more then you know. You admit that the bread and vine do change. So far so good. But why do you think that as soon as you consume it,it change back to simple bread and vine? You are all over the place right now. But at the end of the day you are a catholic (are you,by the way?) and as such are obligated to obey the Church,preferably without doubts. Yes? I am a simple man,as I have stated earlier,with a simple job,I drive a lorry,and a man with a simple faith. I know that God is with me. I know I can trust what the Church teach without reading a thousand books. If you are willing to test God by taking a breathalyser test after the Communion,do so. I hope and pray that you will see the light and understand that there are things we do not need to know or understand. All we need is faith,and God will provide that one. Every day is a miracle if you open your eyes and look around.
 
Alan,my friend. You are upset because you fumble around in that gray area between “believe or not”.
If I come across that way, it’s an illusion because I’m not upset. Several years ago I got tired of hearing everybody I talked to go around in circles, with no end in sight generation after generation, and decided to exercise my engineering skills to see how I could apply them to matters of faith and specifically agnosticism, and now that work has begun to bloom. So the fumbling you refer to is actually quite delightful, because with my technical and social background, I love doing this job and I thank the Lord for entrusting me with it. I am absolutely fascinated by the issue of “believe it or not” but until I completed these last 10 years of psychosis from which I was lucky to be returned I didn’t realize that it was all good. Even as of yesterday, I had the thought it was my job to correct other people. Really I don’t have a job description, though – having one binds the Spirit from being able to use me nearly as effectively, especially when He needs to take me outside my own awareness and imagination (i.e. the Cloud of the Knowing) and operate in the faith zone (the Cloud of the Unknowing – where all the God we haven’t met resides) where I work first and seek to understand later why I did it. So I can chuckle at my naivete of yesterday, and harbor an eager anticipation for tomorrow, whereby I will surely see how naive and limited I was when I wrote this.
I assume you practice your faith?
I don’t have any choice. For some reason at this point I don’t even see a distinction between faith and works. They are part of the same system. So the answer is, you are correct to assume, of course, that my faith and works are integrated – as they actually are in everybody. Some don’t see this because they presume to know what parts of their works were intended and what parts are not, nor do they understand the implications of their own faith.
If you do so you really not need to search the “right answers” from any other book then the Bible.
Sola scriptura?
It is important to know much but more important is to believe even more then you know.
👍
You admit that the bread and vine do change. So far so good. But why do you think that as soon as you consume it,it change back to simple bread and vine?
I didn’t say that. The substance changes during Consecration, but the accidents do not. The accident, not the substance of the blood of Christ, is what will land you in jail if you drink a lot of Precious Blood and then take to the road. Precious blood is the Body and Blood of Christ in substance, but it will get you drunk.

I can see you are struggling with what I call “dualistic thinking.” You are stuck in an either/or scenario. It isn’t either or, but both. You are saying that when a piece of unleavened bread is consecrated, it no longer holds the properties of bread because it isn’t bread anymore. If that were the case, then all of its other physical properties would cease to exist and the host could disappear from our sight, or even appear as something other than what 99.99% of us see – a white circle. Maybe this helps to explain why two people I know actually saw the Lord’s visual likeness upon gazing at the host during Adoration.
You are all over the place right now. But at the end of the day you are a catholic (are you,by the way?)
Yes.
and as such are obligated to obey the Church,preferably without doubts. Yes?
Sure. I appreciate your using the word “preferably” as an olive branch. But obeying the Church at the deepest level goes beyond all of this rhetoric so there really is no discussion needed; this is pure indulgence although it has tremendous positive effect and I, for one, am enjoying it.
I am a simple man,as I have stated earlier,with a simple job,I drive a lorry,and a man with a simple faith. I know that God is with me.
I know. I can hear Him speaking through your heart, but your observation gives me God-confidence because the stories match. I haven’t quite put my finger on it, but something about your “simplicity” is totally awesome.

Do you spend a lot of time away from home for your job, alone? (thus your screen name) Have you ever heard of silent prayer? You don’t need to read any books for that, and can be very powerful.
I know I can trust what the Church teach without reading a thousand books.
Nice. 🙂

(continued on next post)
 
(continued from last post)
If you are willing to test God by taking a breathalyser test after the Communion,do so. I hope and pray that you will see the light and understand that there are things we do not need to know or understand. All we need is faith,and God will provide that one. Every day is a miracle if you open your eyes and look around.
You call it testing God. I call it curiosity. You are right that we do not need to know or understand many things. That illustrates the problem right there. People think they must know and understand, and that others should “know” and “understand” to the extent the others agree. If knowing and understanding were required for salvation, the Church wouldn’t have made the first 100 years, as back then nearly all the people were illiterate.

What’s even funnier is that once a person becomes wise and learned, their ego thinks the Spirit can only get to them through their conscious mind, I guess, because they only hear those promptings by the Spirit that make sense to them. But the Spirit does not need to work in somebody whose mind assumes control. So they become cripples, the religious equivalent to Stephen Hawking. They can say things that are technically pure, but they are sterile because they don’t understand what they think they understand, because satan has apparently convinced them, like he did Adam, that with enough understanding we can calculate how the world should be and how to make it that way. They think because they know CCC this and encyclical that and hocus pokus about the other, they somehow have knowledge of the kingdom of heaven while people like you and me who don’t claim to be scholars do not. This is the Big Lie, but it has played a major role in preserving the Church and the Good News for 2000 years. After all, if the lie were ever discovered by the intellectuals, the Church as we know it, her work being done, would disintegrate. At that point, there will no longer need to be hospitals for sinners because there soon won’t be any more sinners. The lion will lay down with the lamb, and all that.

Matt 11:25
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."

It’s absolutely amazing how scholars can write volumes about this scripture but still have no clue what it means in everyday life, or even what it could mean to them.

But with overwhelming statistical probability, that will never happen because of the nature of Truth, until Jesus comes again.

As it is, I admire those people for their knowledge, but I pity them for their loss.
It’s almost embarrassing to see how some of them react to the simplest of truths. Like “do not judge.” What’s so hard about that, yet I’ve gone around and around in numerous threads with academics who know 10 books for every paragraph of Church teachings I know who have wonderfully elaborate explanations that result in reversing Jesus’s words to mean, “you have a solemn obligation, as a Catholic, to make judgments.” Or the simpler version which is even more deadly because of its ability to be spread from one host mind to another, “judge the sinner, not the sin.” Another thing to watch for is the word “accountability.” This is one of satan’s favorite words to bring up at Church leadership meetings, and if you think it through with enough honesty you will realize is it effectively a code word often used for “we have no intention of accepting Christ or the gifts He gave us, and we will do what we can to make sure nobody else gets them, either.” I know this because I’ve seen it; when I was at a parish council meeting once, I asked if it wouldn’t make sense, since we’re in the business of bringing Jesus to people, to consult what Jesus taught us in terms of how we should do things. The whole notion was rejected out of hand as the loudest person in the room shot me down with, "weeellll, I’m not a very religious guy but it seems to me when you have to deal with those kinds of people we need to … " and then went on to reiterate the same plan which still was 180 degrees opposite the actual diocesan policy we claimed to be following. To be misinformed about Christ was excusable. But in a parish leadership meeting, to openly reject the whole notion of taking Christ into consideration, is one of the most amazing things I’d ever seen.

But take heart:

1 Cor 1

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.
18 The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”
20 Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith.
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Peace and joy,
Alan
 
But take heart:

1 Cor 1

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.

Hey, wait a minute! Did verse 17 say what I think it said? Let’s get a second opinion:

1 Cor 1:17 (D-R)
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.

Guess so. This one looks pretty straightforward. I don’t see more than one way to interpret it.

Gosh. I wonder what would happen if this were ever discovered?

Peace and joy,
Alan
​
​
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top