Talking to Muslims

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Abbi

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Hey all!🙂
I have recently made friends with a Muslim, and the topic of religion has come up several times. I havn’t talking to a Muslim before, and only know the basics about Islam. I was wondering if anyone might have experience in understanding their culture, and some pointers on how to talk about Jesus?

I think the main issue is gaining understanding about how Allah (or God, I guess) could possibly have a son. I’ve explained the trinity using the metaphor of water (one in three forms - liquid, ice, steam), but he’s still not getting it…
 
Abbi, you can’t convert someone, all you can do is pray the Holy Spirit comes over them and they search out the One True Faith - and then you’ll be there to help him discover Christ!

In the meantime, remain his friend and answer whatever questions that he has, but don’t go out of your way to “convert” him. As for the aspects of the Faith that are difficult to explain, such as the Trinity, and the Begotten Son of God, do your best, but always remind him that they are Mysteries of Faith, and are not well understood by anyone - even the Apostles were confused, and it shows in the Gospels.
 
Oh right, no I’m not going all-out on convertng him or anything. I actually just meant to understand his faith. Its him who is trying to convert me more than anything! lol. But you don’t need to be worrying about that.
 
It would be a good idea to determine which brand of Mohammedism your friend follows: Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, Sufi… Is your friend from the East or West originally? I have found Western born Muslims different than those born in the East.

Knowing that might avoid certain disputes that they have amongst themselves which tend to obfuscate the discussion you want to have with him if you do not know.
 
KofC660 said:
As for the aspects of the Faith that are difficult to explain, such as the Trinity, and the Begotten Son of God, do your best, but always remind him that they are Mysteries of Faith, and are not well understood by anyone - even the Apostles were confused, and it shows in the Gospels.
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Hi
Could you please enumerate all those mysteries of Catholic Faith ( with references from authenticated sources, say OTBible ) that the Catholics find difficult to explain?
The list should be conclusive, with no room for any addition subsequently. May be I could explain them or any other member here to help the Catholics as a friendly gesture. I respect your faith and I am an open mind.
Thanks

Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the **one who could save **him from death, **and he was heard **because of his reverent submission.
 
I just wanted to point out that the only reason a Muslim would befriend you, is to convert you. It is forbidden in the Qu’ran to befriend non-Muslims. Here is the sura:

The Qur’an:

Sura (5:51) - *“O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” *

Sura (5:80)* - “You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.” *Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

Sura (3:28) - “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah…”

Sura (3:118) - “O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people…”

Sura (9:23) - *“O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers” *Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates “slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them”).

Sura (53:29) - “Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world.”

Sura (3:85) - “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”

There’s more here:

thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm
 
Eden said:
I just wanted to point out that the only reason a Muslim would befriend you, is to convert you. It is forbidden in the Qu’ran to befriend non-Muslims.
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Really, as you pointed out the only time they are supposed to is in order to get new converts, or out of necessity.

It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng

It is permissible for you to let your aunt stay with you so that you can call her to Islam and encourage her with wisdom and beautiful preaching, If she sees you and your good attitude and kind treatment, that may be a means of opening her heart to this great religion. Attitude and actions may often be more eloquent than words and preaching. So strive hard to do that, and if Allaah guides her at your hands, that will be better for you than this world and everything in it.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70219&ln=eng

Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I’m at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn’t affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, “Why don’t you hang out with the muslims instead?” He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he’s afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he’s sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that’s something that isn’t attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as “taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers” keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.

Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng

Here’s a site that sincerely believes all non-Muslims are condemned, so friendship requires the invitation to Islam.

Since you have feelings of concern for your friends, why don’t you give them Da’awah (invitation) to Islam. It is stated in the Hadith that ‘A true friend is he who invites his friend to the straight path, i.e. towards Islam, good deeds, charity, etc.’ Make lots of du’aa for your non-Muslim friends that Allah grant them the wealth of Imaan and that they realise the truth from falsehood.

islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12410

Again the issue of being freinds for the purposes of conversion arises…

" Islam is the religion of tolerance, ease and flexibility, and at the same time, it is the religion of justice. Hospitality is a part of Islaamic good manners, but if the guest is a disbeliever, then the ruling differs according to the different intention of the host and the different types of hospitality he offers him. If his intention is legitimate, based upon his desire to create harmony between himself and the disbeliever, so that he may call him to Islaam and save him from kufr and misguidance, then his intention is honourable."

fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0020111_1.htm

You’re not even considered a ‘brother’ of a Muslim

"Question: Does not brotherhood extend to all of mankind because it is established that Aadam was the forefather of everyone?

Response: This is not so. There is no doubt that everyone is from the offspring of Aadam but we do not say, “This is my brother,” when referring to a disbeliever meaning by that within the brotherhood of man. We can only refer to him as brother when there is a relationship by descent or lineage.

fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000920_5.htm

Although this deals with marriage, the implications of ‘mixing’ with non-Muslims still arises…

"Question: What is your advice concerning some Muslim minorities marrying disbelieving women who do not believe in the existence of a Creator and what is the effect of that upon the children?

Response: My advice to all Muslims is that they should not marry anyone who is not a Muslim.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000822_5.htm
 
Montalban said:
Really, as you pointed out the only time they are supposed to is in order to get new converts, or out of necessity.

It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng

It is permissible for you to let your aunt stay with you so that you can call her to Islam and encourage her with wisdom and beautiful preaching, If she sees you and your good attitude and kind treatment, that may be a means of opening her heart to this great religion. Attitude and actions may often be more eloquent than words and preaching. So strive hard to do that, and if Allaah guides her at your hands, that will be better for you than this world and everything in it.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70219&ln=eng

Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I’m at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn’t affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, “Why don’t you hang out with the muslims instead?” He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he’s afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he’s sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that’s something that isn’t attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as “taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers” keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.

Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng

Here’s a site that sincerely believes all non-Muslims are condemned, so friendship requires the invitation to Islam.

Since you have feelings of concern for your friends, why don’t you give them Da’awah (invitation) to Islam. It is stated in the Hadith that ‘A true friend is he who invites his friend to the straight path, i.e. towards Islam, good deeds, charity, etc.’ Make lots of du’aa for your non-Muslim friends that Allah grant them the wealth of Imaan and that they realise the truth from falsehood.

islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12410

Again the issue of being freinds for the purposes of conversion arises…

" Islam is the religion of tolerance, ease and flexibility, and at the same time, it is the religion of justice. Hospitality is a part of Islaamic good manners, but if the guest is a disbeliever, then the ruling differs according to the different intention of the host and the different types of hospitality he offers him. If his intention is legitimate, based upon his desire to create harmony between himself and the disbeliever, so that he may call him to Islaam and save him from kufr and misguidance, then his intention is honourable."

fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0020111_1.htm

You’re not even considered a ‘brother’ of a Muslim

"Question: Does not brotherhood extend to all of mankind because it is established that Aadam was the forefather of everyone?

Response: This is not so. There is no doubt that everyone is from the offspring of Aadam but we do not say, “This is my brother,” when referring to a disbeliever meaning by that within the brotherhood of man. We can only refer to him as brother when there is a relationship by descent or lineage.

fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000920_5.htm

Although this deals with marriage, the implications of ‘mixing’ with non-Muslims still arises…

"Question: What is your advice concerning some Muslim minorities marrying disbelieving women who do not believe in the existence of a Creator and what is the effect of that upon the children?

Response: My advice to all Muslims is that they should not marry anyone who is not a Muslim.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000822_5.htm
Click to expand...
Islam is complete apharteid. They take but don’t give an inch, that’s why they will never integrate in kaffir societies. they’ll use our laws to undermine our forms of governments.

People have to realize all this and stop giving in to their incessant demands like footbaths in colleges and separate dormitories and so on. It is a cancer that has to be eradicated or they’ll destroy our way of life completely.

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
Islam is complete apharteid. They take but don’t give an inch, that’s why they will never integrate in kaffir societies. they’ll use our laws to undermine our forms of governments.

People have to realize all this and stop giving in to their incessant demands like footbaths in colleges and separate dormitories and so on. It is a cancer that has to be eradicated or they’ll destroy our way of life completely.

Vickie
Click to expand...
I tried a lone campaign against all sorts of food that are now halal.

The money used to get acreditation probably goes to support terrorists
 
Eden said:
I just wanted to point out that the only reason a Muslim would befriend you, is to convert you. It is forbidden in the Qu’ran to befriend non-Muslims. Here is the sura:

The Qur’an:

Sura (5:51) - *“O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” *

Sura (5:80)* - “You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.” *Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

Sura (3:28) - “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah…”

Sura (3:118) - “O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people…”

Sura (9:23) - *“O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers” *Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates “slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them”).

Sura (53:29) - “Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world.”

Sura (3:85) - “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”

There’s more here:

thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm
Click to expand...
Didn’t I make a post directed at you just a few weeks ago showing that these verses (5:51 particularly) don’t mean Muslims aren’t allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews?
 
Abbi said:
I think the main issue is gaining understanding about how Allah (or God, I guess) could possibly have a son. I’ve explained the trinity using the metaphor of water (one in three forms - liquid, ice, steam), but he’s still not getting it…
Click to expand...
I haven’t seen the rest of the thread yet, but right off the bat I can say for sure DO NOT explain it like this. That one in three forms stuff describes the doctrine of Modalism, long since declared a heresy.
 
Kadaveri said:
Didn’t I make a post directed at you just a few weeks ago showing that these verses (5:51 particularly) don’t mean Muslims aren’t allowed to be friends with Christians and Jews?
Click to expand...
O.K., in my religion, I can be friends with whom ever I want and I can leave freely without penalty of death.

And the command not to befriend unbelievers does mean Christians and Jews.

Sura (5:51) - *“O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” *
 
Not wanting to repeat myself:
Kadaveri said:
Muslims aren’t taught to not take Christians and Jews as their friends, this is a common misunderstanding frequently exploited by polemicists. The word ‘awliyaa’ used in 5:51 doesn’t mean ‘friends’, it actually means ‘guardians, protectors, defenders, patrons, custodians etc’, though the meaning that fits best how the word is used in this verse is ‘overlords’ (anyone who knows Arabic would tell you this). The Qur’an isn’t talking about a personal friendship here, it’s basically telling Muslims not to have Christians and Jews dictate our faith to us. You’ll note further back in the same Sura Muslims are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women, obviously that wouldn’t be possible if just being friends was forbidden.
Click to expand...
So please don’t make this argument again in another few weeks.
 
I’m pretty sure I also read something in the Qur’an to the effect that Jews and Christians, as monotheists, are closest to Muslims and SHOULD be befriended. Can anyone provide the sura?
 
I think this verse is what you’re referring to:

*Verily the strongest of people in hostility to the believers you will find to be the Jews and those who are polytheists; and verily you will find the closest in love to the believers are those who say “Lo! We are Christians”. This is because among them are goodly priests and monks, and they are not arrogant *(5:82)
 
It has to be it. I was under the impression that Jews were also seen as the “good guys”. Maybe the Serbian translation isn’t accurate. Or my memory. :o

At least now there’s a sura saying something nice about Christians on this thread. 😃
 
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