Talking with my Jehovah's Witness cousin?

[noprem]

Given that you are related and you’re under age, feel free to use physical violence.

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.” 1 Peter 3:15,16, KJV (1611)

“But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.”
NIV (1975), for comparison.

Or perhaps you forgot to end with a . I do that, sometimes.

Speaking of JW teaching, what do you think of this one:
“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.” Mt 6:9,10, KJV

Most say the earth now is far from a heavenly place. (Some use the phrase “hell on earth”.) Is it really possible, as Our Lord suggests, for earth to be ‘like heaven’? Would you like to see that? What would you like to do in a perfect earth?

 

[noprem]

I almost spit a Kiwi Strawberry Snapple all over the laptop.
CAF rocks.
-Tim-

My reply to Snakemauler was somewhat different. What do you think of it?

 

[noprem]

I make sure i these talks to have a bible with me, not his.
What are some of the points he is making?
Do not argue. Stay calm. …
Quote from ST John"Little children, love one another!" After a time, his disciples wearied , asked, “Master, why do you always say this?” “It is the Lord’s command,” was his reply. “And if this alone be done, it is enough!”

Can’t find this as you state it. Book/Chapter/Verse, please?
No doubt you’ll recall that Our Lord taught something else:
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Mt 22, KJV

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Can’t find this as you state it. Book/Chapter/Verse, please?
No doubt you’ll recall that Our Lord taught something else:
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Mt 22, KJV

That is what St. John was telling them. Look at the two commands that the Lord grave, the key word is love. If we love God and love one another that all else will fall into place.

 

[T_More]

Which is exactly what we encourage householders to do. And it’s why so many RC- previously kept in ignorance of the Bible- become Witnesses. (It has been for some time the second-largest religion in Italy.)

In both World Wars Catholics were told by their own countries’ hierarchies to ‘Kill the enemy!’- including RC soldiers on the other side. (All the mainstream churches did so, on both sides.) That was their oral doctrine, which is a matter of pride with many Catholics.
Their written doctrine- God’s word- said this:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” John 13:34,35, KJV et al. Then he went out and died for them.
A commandment, from the one whom Catholics worship as God Almighty, yet they went out and killed “one another”. IMO that’s bad behavior. Your opinion?

Uh, Islam is the second largest religion in Italy. But that’s okay, the WTBS have been known to get the facts wrong from time to time.

Noprem, I’ll ask you what I’ve asked every single JW that comes on this site but as of yet will not answer. From where do you or the JW’s receive the authority to interpret the bible?

 

[T_More]

In both World Wars Catholics were told by their own countries’ hierarchies to ‘Kill the enemy!’- including RC soldiers on the other side. (All the mainstream churches did so, on both sides.) That was their oral doctrine, which is a matter of pride with many Catholics.
Their written doctrine- God’s word- said this:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” John 13:34,35, KJV et al. Then he went out and died for them.
A commandment, from the one whom Catholics worship as God Almighty, yet they went out and killed “one another”. IMO that’s bad behavior. Your opinion?

The Old Testament was full of war waged in the name of God, and this after receiving the 10 Commandments, so this argument is weak.

The way we identify what “Church” that Christ is speaking about in Matthew 16:18 and 1 Timothy 3:15 is by examining which body of believers has been there from the very beginning until today, the one that Christ promised that would be guided into all truth in John 16:13, the one He promised to be with until the end of time in Matthew 28:20, and the one that Paul said would be with all generations in Ephesians 3:20-21. Since Charles Taze Russell is the genesis of your religion, what unbroken line does the WTBS have claim to in regards to the early Christians? Sorry, history is not on your side. And to claim that the whole Church fell under Satan only to be “rediscovered” by Russell is to call Jesus Christ a liar and say the Satan was stronger than Christ was.

And BTW, that Church that’s spoken about in the bible is the one who decided what was to make up the bible itself. So the bible is of the Church and belongs to Her. Christ never wrote anything down, nor commisioned a collection of books. What He did do was start a Church. So the next time you’re going door to door, remember that your toting around a Catholic collection of books, and you wouldn’t have it if it wasn’t for Her. In order for JW’s to slap the CC in her face, they first must sit in Her lap.

 

[noprem]

Noprem, I’ll ask you what I’ve asked every single JW that comes on this site but as of yet will not answer. From where do you or the JW’s receive the authority to interpret the bible?

From study of the bible itself. 2 Tim 3:16,17
Here’s a specific example: Catholics, based on a “magisterium”, teach praying the Rosary. We teach that any prayer which requires counters in order to keep track of it (as the Buddhists do also) is unscriptural. It’s also what Jesus taught, clearly, without need for interpretation by anyone: “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”
He further taught, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
By what authority do you teach otherwise: repetitive prayers to Mary, and her as “mediatrix”?
Another specific example, which is also my unanswered question:
John 13:34,35. A commandment to “love one another”, from the one whom Catholics worship as God Almighty, yet they went out and killed “one another” in both World Wars. We and Jesus think that is proof of wrong interpretation by the “magisterium”. Mt 7:15-20.

Your answer?

 

[noprem]

That is what St. John was telling them. Look at the two commands that the Lord grave, the key word is love. If we love God and love one another that all else will fall into place.

From your post: After a time, his disciples wearied , asked, “Master, why do you always say this?” “It is the Lord’s command,” was his reply. “And if this alone be done, it is enough!”
That’s what I don’t find in my Bibles; it’s why I asked for book/chapter/verse; still waiting to see it.
We do love Jehovah and, in spite of our imperfect natures, we show love for our neighbor. For this reason we obey God’s appointed King over us when he commands to ‘go preach, teach, and baptize.’ (Mt 28:19,20) And in doing this we have Jesus’ own assurance that this is what Jehovah wants from us, if we truly love him. ""Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

A key part of Jesus’ teaching is “thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” What will the earth be like when this prayer is answered? What would you like to do in such an earth?

 

[noprem]

The Old Testament was full of war waged in the name of God, and this after receiving the 10 Commandments, so this argument is weak.

My “weak argument” was a direct quote of the command of Jesus- your God. So your opinion doesn’t agree with the command of Jesus- your God. That was my point, and it’s the cause of so much of the slaughter of the last century.

The way we identify what “Church” that Christ is speaking about in Matthew 16:18 and 1 … Since Charles Taze Russell is the genesis of your religion, what unbroken line does the WTBS have claim to in regards to the early Christians? Sorry, history is not on your side.

Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Abel- Mt 23:35; Heb 11:4.
Natural Jews- Isa 43:10 (NWT, ASV, JB); witnesses to him by name.
Jesus- Rev 1:5

And to claim that the whole Church fell under Satan only to be “rediscovered” by Russell is to call Jesus Christ a liar and say the Satan was stronger than Christ was.

As prophesied in Dan 12; esp. v10. It’s your opinion that this ‘makes Satan stronger than Christ’. We believe the true strength will be revealed in the end. Isa 55:10,11.

And BTW, that Church that’s spoken about in the bible is the one who decided what was to make up the bible itself. So the bible is of the Church and belongs to Her. Christ never wrote anything down, nor commisioned a collection of books. What He did do was start a Church. So the next time you’re going door to door, remember that your toting around a Catholic collection of books, and you wouldn’t have it if it wasn’t for Her. In order for JW’s to slap the CC in her face, they first must sit in Her lap.

We and non-Witness scholars have long and often discussed the RC church’s role in suppressing the Bible, chiefly be restricting the publication of it to the hierarchy; keeping it from the “laity” by torture and the pyre if necessary. That is history.

Are you looking forward to a cleansed earth, in line with the Our Father prayer? I am.

 

[T_More]

From study of the bible itself. 2 Tim 3:16,17

The verse says scripture in beneficial, not sufficient. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). So which Church is it, noprem?
Here’s a specific example: Catholics, based on a “magisterium”, teach praying the Rosary. We teach that any prayer which requires counters in order to keep track of it (as the Buddhists do also) is unscriptural. It’s also what Jesus taught, clearly, without need for interpretation by anyone: “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

**3 times in the Garden of Gethsemane Christ prayed for His Father to take away the cup. Is He contradicting Himself? Was it vain repetition?

In Revelation 4:8 (NIV, emphasis mine) it says:
8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:**

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’

who was, and is, and is to come.”

Is scripture contradicting itself? Is Christ? Or could it be perhaps you are misunderstanding what our Lord said? When you say “I Love You” to someone for the umpteenth time, do you still mean it? I have heard many of the same repetitious prayers in meetings at Kingdom Halls, which I’m quite sure that the person saying them meant. Meaning the words with all hearts is what matters.

The Rosary is intensely Christocentric and is based on the Gospel. So my question to you is, have you prayed the Gospel lately?

He further taught, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

**No argument there. This is very Catholic for you to say. The problem is, by WTBS theology, Christ did not die for you, but for the 144,000.

“So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the
“mediator” only for anointed Christians.”
Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31

“Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.” Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” pp.10-11

Have you ever prayed for anyone in need? If they themselves are praying for aid, why do they need your prayers? We are called to intercede for one another, and Mary is more alive than you or I.
**
By what authority do you teach otherwise: repetitive prayers to Mary, and her as “mediatrix”?

I don’t assume any authority. I ascent to the authority that was bestowed upon the Church that Christ Himself started, the Catholic Church. I didn’t take it upon myself like Charles Taze Russell. Obediance is expected of Christ’s followers.

Another specific example, which is also my unanswered question:
John 13:34,35. A commandment to “love one another”, from the one whom Catholics worship as God Almighty, yet they went out and killed “one another” in both World Wars. We and Jesus think that is proof of wrong interpretation by the “magisterium”. Mt 7:15-20.

Your answer?

**We absolutely must love one another. Sadly, many do not, such as when family shuns disfellowshipped ones. I’m quite certain Christ did not teach that.

There are times when war is just. Did not the Hebrews, in God’s name, wage war when coming into the promised land? And this was after receving the 10 commandments. Does God change?

Thank goodness, for example, the Allies came over in WWII and defeated the Nazi’s, or else there wouldn’t be any JW’s left in Europe! If one sees a neighbor being assaulted and he or she’s life is in danger, would it not be your duty to come to their aid, or blood would be on your hands? No difference here. The Church does not “support war” unless it’s an absolute last resort.

Let’s look at a few scriptures here:

Ecclesiastes 3:8 “[There is] a time to love and a time to hate; a time for war and a time for peace.”

Luke 3:14 "Also, those in military service would ask him: “What shall we also do?” And he said to them: “Do not harass anybody or accuse anybody falsely, but be satisfied with YOUR provisions.”

In Acts Chapter 10, Cornelius was not asked to step down as a Roman soldier before being baptized. In addition, Christ did not tell the Roman soldier in Matthew 8:5-13 to stop being a soldier.

Note Christ’s instruction in Luke 22:36-38

36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfilment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

So noprem, who and where was faithful & discreet slave before Russell?

**

 

[Nicea325]

The way we identify what “Church” that Christ is speaking about in Matthew 16:18 and 1 … Since Charles Taze Russell is the genesis of your religion, what unbroken line does the WTBS have claim to in regards to the early Christians? Sorry, history is not on your side.

Noprem:

Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Abel- Mt 23:35; Heb 11:4.
Natural Jews- Isa 43:10 (NWT, ASV, JB); witnesses to him by name.
Jesus- Rev 1:5

Very WEAK and at best a pipe dream! It is one thing to say the JW organization existed since Abel and to say someone such as Abel was a witness for Yaweh…and not the bastardized term Jehovah!

oprem:

We and non-Witness scholars have long and often discussed the RC church’s role in suppressing the Bible, chiefly be restricting the publication of it to the hierarchy; keeping it from the “laity” by torture and the pyre if necessary. That is history.

Scholars? Seriously? No it is NOT history,it is another LIE passed on the by the lying cult called JW’s. NO scholar will agree with you about history. The RCC suppressed the Bible? Are you truly that ignorant? Tell me why on earth would the RCC suppress a book written by HAND in ANY language when the majority of society could not read and write? Why would Joe Farmer in the year 800 want a Latin/Greek Bible?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

From your post: After a time, his disciples wearied , asked, “Master, why do you always say this?” “It is the Lord’s command,” was his reply. “And if this alone be done, it is enough!”
That’s what I don’t find in my Bibles; it’s why I asked for book/chapter/verse; still waiting to see it.
We do love Jehovah and, in spite of our imperfect natures, we show love for our neighbor. For this reason we obey God’s appointed King over us when he commands to ‘go preach, teach, and baptize.’ (Mt 28:19,20) And in doing this we have Jesus’ own assurance that this is what Jehovah wants from us, if we truly love him. ""Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

A key part of Jesus’ teaching is “thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” What will the earth be like when this prayer is answered? What would you like to do in such an earth?

I do not understand what you are asking. If you are asking were in the Bible this saying from St John comes from It is not recorded in the bible. Not every thing Christ said is recorded in the Bible for as it says in the Bible “John 21:25 - And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen” you could add that not everything that the Apostels said after Christ is recorded either.

All so keep in mind that it was 30 years or more after Christ that the Books of the New Testement were writtien and another 300 years before they were declared to be in the cannon. That is why in addition to the Bible we have the Scared Traditions and Magisterium that give us the complete teachings and understanding from the earliest times. The three of them work together to support and build thebody of Christ. if you remove any one of the three is becomes like a three legged stool that is missing a leg it fails over.

So the answer to your that saying by St John is not in the Bible.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

=noprem;8295123]

We and non-Witness scholars have long and often discussed the RC church’s role in suppressing the Bible, chiefly be restricting the publication of it to the hierarchy; keeping it from the “laity” by torture and the pyre if necessary. That is history.

The church never forbade the ownership nor the reading of the Bible by the laity. To say it did is a out right lie. What the Church did do is forbide the reading and ownership of unauthorized translations. With very good reason for doing so. to Begin with prior to the printing press all bible were hand copied and very expensive and other than the very wealthy no one could afford to purchase one. Also most people could not read so even if they could purchase a bible they could not read it. Translations from language to another is at best hard but from Latin and Greek and Hebrew into language such as Engilsh and German is becomes a very difficult task and since the reformation of the 1600’s many many translations with many many error have been put out. A great wxample of this would be the New world translation.

Are you looking forward to a cleansed earth, in line with the Our Father prayer? I am

I look forward to to the New heaven and earth were God and Christ will live with us in the new Jerusalem.

 

[T_More]

My “weak argument” was a direct quote of the command of Jesus- your God. So your opinion doesn’t agree with the command of Jesus- your God. That was my point, and it’s the cause of so much of the slaughter of the last century.

Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Abel- Mt 23:35; Heb 11:4.
Natural Jews- Isa 43:10 (NWT, ASV, JB); witnesses to him by name.
Jesus- Rev 1:5

As prophesied in Dan 12; esp. v10. It’s your opinion that this ‘makes Satan stronger than Christ’. We believe the true strength will be revealed in the end. Isa 55:10,11.

Please, don’t claim that the WTBS has properly figured out Daniel. The false prophecies of the WTBS have proved time and time again that they are shooting in the dark.

We and non-Witness scholars have long and often discussed the RC church’s role in suppressing the Bible, chiefly be restricting the publication of it to the hierarchy; keeping it from the “laity” by torture and the pyre if necessary. That is history.

**This is a distortion of history, something JW’s have done for a long time. The bible was for use in the Mass, not for you or I to sit by the fireplace and pick and choose what we think it means. You need to do some serious reading, beginning with the writings of those disciples who were taught and ordained by the Apostles. You’ll find some of their names under ‘Canon’ in the “Insight in the Scriptures”, Volume I. **

Are you looking forward to a cleansed earth, in line with the Our Father prayer? I am.

**The prayer also says:

“Give us this day, our daily bread”

What do you suppose that means?

How about the beatitudes:

3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven**. 4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 5 "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. 7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. 8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. 10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Do the “meek” obtain a diferent reward that the poor in spirit, the pure in heart, the righteous?

Ephesians 4:4 (emphasis mine)
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

1 Corinthians 10:14-17
14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

What loaf is he speaking about? It’s the Eucharist

John 6

47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Matthew 26

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Christ promised eteranl life to those that ate of the bread and drank the wine. And yet, they died in body evetually. So, this leaves only one explaination as to what he meant by this.

So if Christ promised that “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day”, why aren’t the majority of JW’s eating of the bread and wine at their memorials?

Christ never stated that there were two different destinations for two seperate classes of believers. This is a man made tradition of the WTBS.

 

[PRmerger]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

Amen! Catholics ought not pray with vain repetition, emphasis on the vain. Not the repetition.

For clearly the Bible does not condemn repetition.

Check out Psalm 135 (136 in Catholic Bibles). for his mercy endureth for ever for his mercy endureth for ever for his mercy endureth for ever for his mercy endureth for ever.

[BIBLEDRB]Psalm 135[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[jw2lds2catholic]

Haven’t read the posts, but wanted to respond immediately to the original post. LOL at the ‘works’ comment by a JW. Having been a JW who ‘worked’ as an aux pioneer back in the days when it required 60 hours of ‘field service’ (knocking on doors) a month, the JW religion is nothing if not a ‘works’ based religion.

Just wanted to get thank off my chest. Now, back to reading…

 

[cmforte]

I think this has been said before, but God’s name really*** isn’t ***Jehova: from the Jewish Encyclopedia at jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N :

**YHWH. **

Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form “Jehovah,” which, however, is a ***philological impossibility ***(see Jehovah). This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai ( = “Lord”), which the Masorites have inserted in the text, indicating thereby that Adonai was to be read (as a “ḳeri perpetuum”) instead of Yhwh. When the name Adonai itself precedes, to avoid repetition of this name, Yhwh is written by the Masorites with the vowels of Elohim, in which case Elohim is read instead of Yhwh. In consequence of this Masoretic reading the authorized and revised English versions (though not the American edition of the revised version) render Yhwh by the word “Lord” in the great majority of cases.

---

And from: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=206&letter=J

Jehova

**A mispronunciation (introduced by Christian theologians, but almost entirely disregarded by the Jews) **of the Hebrew “Yhwh,” the (ineffable) name of God (the Tetragrammaton or “Shem ha-Meforash”). This pronunciation is grammatically impossible; it arose through pronouncing the vowels of the “ḳere” (marginal reading of the Masorites: = “Adonay”) with the consonants of the “ketib” (text-reading: = “Yhwh”)—“Adonay” (the Lord) being substituted with one exception wherever Yhwh occurs in the Biblical and liturgical books. “Adonay” presents the vowels “shewa” (the composite under the guttural א becomes simple under the י), “ḥolem,” and “ḳameẓ,” and these give the reading (= “Jehovah”). Sometimes, when the two names and occur together, the former is pointed with “ḥatef segol” () under the י —thus, (=“Jehovah”)—to indicate that in this combination it is to be pronounced “Elohim” (). These substitutions of "Adonay"and “Elohim” for Yhwh were devised to avoid the profanation of the Ineffable Name (hence is also written , or even , and read “ha-Shem” = "the Name ").

The reading “Jehovah” is a comparatively recent invention. **The earlier Christian commentators report that the Tetragrammaton was written but *not pronounced by the Jews ***(see Theodoret, “Question. xv. in Ex.” [Field, “Hexapla,” i. 90, to Ex. vi. 3]; Jerome, “Præfatio Regnorum,” and his letter to Marcellus, “Epistola,” 136, where he notices that “PIPI” = ΠIΠI = ] is presented in Greek manuscripts; Origen, see “Hexapla” to Ps. lxxi. 18 and Isa. i. 2; comp. concordance to LXX. by Hatch and Redpath, under ΠIΠI, which occasionally takes the place of the usual κύριος, in Philo’s Bible quotations; κύριος = “Adonay” is the regular translation; see also Aquila).

“Jehovah” is generally held to have been **the invention of Pope Leo X.'s confessor, **Peter Galatin

---

I know some JWs. They are the kindest, most welcoming, most forgiving, non-judgemental and gentle people I’ve ever met, some Catholics could learn from them. But their religion over-all is false, even the name of it is based on a lie. This could be partly why the Pope banned its use in the Liturgy, not only out of respect for the tradition that the Jews, and thus the first century christians (most Jews), never pronounced it, but also because it could be considered disrespectful to pronounce God’s name incorrectly. The JWs I know told me that it was Satan not wanting us to know and say God’s true personal name! And isn’t it interesting how they can attribute the name of their faith on the confessor of a** Pope**?

And check out:

letusreason.org/sacna%202.htm , sacrednamemovement.com/ ,

-Chris