Talmud 101

[Valke2]

I think that God was decellerating from his timezone of a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, resting at the 24 hour days that we are familiar with and commonly experience.

Regardless, does the Sabbath day in Judaism start at the sunset of what we call our ‘Friday’ nights or not?

This is a pretty simple question.

It seems to me that you’re saying sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t have to always be this way, then why do you have to do it at all?

If there isn’t much there, other than to remember the sabbath and keep it holy, and the fact that God ceased work on the 7th day, then why does the Sabbath day in Judaism start at the sunset of what we call our ‘Friday’ nights?

This is a pretty simple question too.

Yes, the sabbath starts at sundown. Unless you’re in space, then it starts based on Sundown Houston time. I gave you a specific talmud passage that addressed the issue of what to do when you find yourself in a situationm where time is not working “normally”

As for when sabbath begins in the far north, the halacha seems to hold that when the sun is at it’s lowest point in the horizon on Friday evening. The way it works out there, havdalah, the ending of the sabbath doesn’t occur until Sunday morning. The source text for this conclusion seems to be Tiferet Yisrael at the end of the first Perek of Brachot in the set of the Mishna containing the commentary of Rabbi Yisroel Lifshitz, known as the “Yuchin UBoaz” Mishnayot.

Again, none of this is contrary to Torah or other books of the Tanakh.

 

[Valke2]

Our sabbath starts in the evening because in Genesis, the creation of each day is summed up as "There was an evening and there was a morning, day 2…

Notice, it does not say “night”. So you can have an evening in Alaska with the sun still in the sky.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Our sabbath starts in the evening because in Genesis, the creation of each day is summed up as "There was an evening and there was a morning, day 2…

Notice, it does not say “night”. So you can have an evening in Alaska with the sun still in the sky.

What?

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Yes, the sabbath starts at sundown. Unless you’re in space, then it starts based on Sundown Houston time. I gave you a specific talmud passage that addressed the issue of what to do when you find yourself in a situationm where time is not working “normally”

As for when sabbath begins in the far north, the halacha seems to hold that when the sun is at it’s lowest point in the horizon on Friday evening. The way it works out there, havdalah, the ending of the sabbath doesn’t occur until Sunday morning. The source text for this conclusion seems to be Tiferet Yisrael at the end of the first Perek of Brachot in the set of the Mishna containing the commentary of Rabbi Yisroel Lifshitz, known as the “Yuchin UBoaz” Mishnayot.

Again, none of this is contrary to Torah or other books of the Tanakh.

So how about if they land on place on the earth that is not Houston time? Do they have to re-orient themselves according to the new time upon landing?

Was the long day recorded in Joshua a literal event? If so, did this delay the coming of the Sabbath by approximately a day (or whatever time-frame was involved)? If not, why not?

How about in heaven? I realize that Judaism has a wide range of opinions regarding the here-after, but do any Jews believe people observe the Sabbath in heaven-- or this strictly an earth-based observance?

Likewise, is God restricted by the Sabbath? Does he have to rest too?

Please note: I’m not trying to be a smart guy. I am really curious to find answers to these questions from a Jewish perspective.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

come-and-hear.com/talmud/

sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

Talmud is online at above sites.

 

[Ma.Eugenia]

This is all interesting to read.

 

[Valke2]

So how about if they land on place on the earth that is not Houston time? Do they have to re-orient themselves according to the new time upon landing?

I would assume so. This isn’t something I’ve studied but I can’t imagine why not.

Was the long day recorded in Joshua a literal event? If so, did this delay the coming of the Sabbath by approximately a day (or whatever time-frame was involved)? If not, why not?

Don’t know. But it would seem that it was all part of the same day. So Sabbath would have started on sundown of the 6th day I would think.

The Talmud has this to say about Joshua’s long day.

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed until the nation had avenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jashar. What is the book of Jashar? — Said R. Hiyya b. Abba in the name of R. Johanan: It is the book of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,1 who are designated as righteous,2 as it is said, Let me die the death of the righteous:3 And where is this incident hinted at [in Genesis]? — And his seed shall fill the nations:4 When shall [Ephraim’s fame] reach the nations? When the sun shall stand still for Joshua.

And the sun stayed in the midst of the heaven and hasted not to go down about a whole day.5 How long [is day-time said to have lasted]? — Said R. Joshua b. Levi: Twenty four hours: [The sun] moved for six hours and stood still for six, then it moved for six and stood still for six, then it moved for six and stood still for six; the whole incident equalled a whole day. …

THere’s a bit more if anyone’s interested (I’m not, particularly, at the moment): come-and-hear.com/zarah/zarah_25.html

How about in heaven? I realize that Judaism has a wide range of opinions regarding the here-after, but do any Jews believe people observe the Sabbath in heaven-- or this strictly an earth-based observance?

The Midrash says: When the Jewish people were gathered at Mount Sinai to receive the Torah, God told them that Heaven would be their reward for keeping the commandments. The Jews asked God, “How do we know that Heaven is so great? How about a free sample to see if it’s worthwhile?”

God wasn’t upset. He knew that Heaven is where we experience the pure and unadulterated pleasure of the infinite God. So He said, “No problem. I’ll send you a sample. Shabbat.”

Thus the Sages say: Shabbat is “a taste of Heaven on Earth.” If Heaven is pure spirituality, then Shabbat is a taste of that experience.

Based on the foregoing, Shabbat will not be observed in the world to come, as shabbat on earth today is a preview of what we are to expect.

Likewise, is God restricted by the Sabbath? Does he have to rest too?

I don’t know. I know we believe that God constantly recreates the world, so in that sense, I suppose He doesn’t rest. The commandment is from God to Man. Like all the commandments, there is nothing that requires God to obey it. When God make’s a promise, we’re then in the realm of covenant. Generally, it is our obligation as part of our covenant with God to keep the commandments.

 

[Valke2]

Valke,
Would the laws regarding time (Houston time) be the same for Russian Jews that are part of the Russian space service, or would there be a different ruling for them?

Thanks.

Upon further reflection (yes, I’ve been dwelling on this question for several months now), it would depend on whether Russian Astronauts set their watches by Houston time. It is very possible they do, and so the halacha would be the same for the Russian Jewish Astronaut (may we see the day).

 

[Valke2]

An overview of a summary explaining a page of Talmud (daf yomi is the practice of studying one page of talmud every day).

On yesterday’s daf (=page) we learned that the principle of neder she-hutar miktzato, hutar kulo – a vow that is partially permitted becomes totally permitted – only applied to hatarat nedarim, when the vow is annulled by a Rabbi. When a husband objects to a neder (=vow) and is meifer, it only removes the part of the neder that is considered innuy nefesh (=suffering), leaving the rest still intact. The Gemara on our daf brings the case of a woman who accepted upon herself to be a Nazerite who cannot drink or eat grape products, cannot cut her hair and cannot come into contact with a dead body, which would make her become ritually defiled. The baraita teaches that if her husband objects to her having taken on this neder of nezirut, she is freed of her obligation, and even if she is unaware of it and drinks wine or touches a dead body, she will not be held liable. The question presented by the Gemara is: if the husband only cancels nedarim of innuy nefesh, perhaps we must assume that he has only annulled her vow with regard to drinking wine, but other rules of nezirut (e.g. eating grape peels or seeds) should still remain in force?

Rav Yosef’s response is ein nezirut la-hatza’in – a person cannot be a partial nazir.

The Maharit explains that the rules that apply to nazir do not fit into normal categories of issur heftza – that the objects are forbidden – or of issur gavra – that the person is prohibited from doing a certain action. The rules of nazir are situational in that a person who finds themselves in the situation of being a nazir is obligated to keep the rules of nezirut, similar to the rules that apply to a Jewish king or High Priest. Thus it is clear that a person who enters into the situation of a nazir must keep all of the rules that apply to a nazir. In the event that a woman accepts this status, and it is cancelled by her husband by means of hafarah, it cannot remove specific rules that apply to the nazir, rather it undoes the entire status of the woman, removing from her all of the obligations that come with that status.

 

[Yerusalyim]

As six Rabbis, you’ll get 13 opinions.

My Rabbi friend says that all the time.

 

[Valke2]

As six Rabbis, you’ll get 13 opinions.

My Rabbi friend says that all the time.

yep.