Tambourine at Mass

[phil19034]

Never going to happen. Not in this neck of the woods, anyway.
Liturgy is never anyone’s property. To quote JPII.

I’m not following this. I spoke to one pastor once about more traditional hymns and he said he can’t get the volunteer music director to do anything he says. The music in his parish was dictated by the music committee.

Not saying this happens in your parish, but I think every parish is different. In some parishes they truly reflect what the people want. In others, it’s just want the pastor or music director wants, etc.

As you say, the liturgy is never anyone’s property, so shouldn’t parishes (which have more than one Sunday mass) have different music styles at different masses to accommodate different people? Or rotate the music genre weekly?

Thoughts?

God Bless

 

[TK421]

The reason I’m not a huge fan of tambourine/percussion/guitar is because switching from those instruments, to the chants in the liturgy, and then back to them, sometimes feels like the musical equivalent to mismatched clothing. Though, depending on how specifically the overall liturgy is presented, it can be made to work.

I think Mass often sounds prettiest when it’s just voices.

Either way, it doesn’t ultimately matter, since these opinions are all sensual & vain, and have nothing to do with why any of us go to Mass. The best music is the one that is given with love. Having music that agrees with ones tastes may or may not be spiritually beneficial.

 

[graciew]

The reason I’m not a huge fan of tambourine/percussion/guitar is because switching from those instruments, to the chants in the liturgy, and then back to them, sometimes feels like the musical equivalent to mismatched clothing. Though, depending on how specifically the overall liturgy is presented, it can be made to work.

I think Mass often sounds prettiest when it’s just voices.

Either way, it doesn’t ultimately matter, since these opinions are all sensual & vain, and have nothing to do with why any of us go to Mass. The best music is the one that is given with love. Having music that agrees with ones tastes may or may not be spiritually beneficial.

When you say guitar ,in general,do you mean electric,acoustic or Spanish guitar? Or all? Just a question so as to know what you are speaking about. Thank you.

 

[Brendan]

For those who use David’s use of the tambourine as a justification for its use in church today: .

Yep, there is no evidence that*the Jews used timbrel in a liturgical setting.

That said, theChurch has no prohibition against it, so there was no liturgical violation.

 

[Brendan]

Actually, as an old European who has celebrated Mass in the Vetus Ordo as well as in the Novus Ordo, Mass throughout Europe, North America, and beyond… Of all of it, my most cherished memories are the Masses I celebrated that were the most beautiful and the most vibrant: and those were the African liturgies.
.

I regularly spend time in a Tanzanian diocese,*doing mission work there, and living in the residence of the local bishop.

This bishop has come our to my parish several times , where the liturgy is more ‘gregorian’.

We have had discussions over the differences in the liturgies. His thoughts were that his people live very quiet, slow lives. They walk everywhere, radios and TV’s are uncommon. Thus in the liturgy, they see the vibrancy of Heaven.

In the US, where the culture is busy, the society is noisy, he sees value in seeking a liturgy that is sedate and demonstrates the peacefulness of Heaven.

He is of the opinion that the Church in the US would do better with a liturgy where we can “hear God in the whisper”, rather than emulating the African experience.

 

[TK421]

I regularly spend time in a Tanzanian diocese,*doing mission work there, and living in the residence of the local bishop.

This bishop has come our to my parish several times , where the liturgy is more ‘gregorian’.

We have had discussions over the differences in the liturgies. His thoughts were that his people live very quiet, slow lives. They walk everywhere, radios and TV’s are uncommon. Thus in the liturgy, they see the vibrancy of Heaven.

In the US, where the culture is busy, the society is noisy, he sees value in seeking a liturgy that is sedate and demonstrates the peacefulness of Heaven.

He is of the opinion that the Church in the US would do better with a liturgy where we can “hear God in the whisper”, rather than emulating the African experience.

That makes sense. Without even realizing it, I think that’s why I might prefer “softer” liturgies and enjoy them purely with the human voice. I work in the public sphere and around noise all the time (and listen to music very frequently, including trance/dance music), so when I go to Mass, I guess I prefer to turn the “traffic” down in my mind.

Music and psychology are interconnected with one another, and how a person spends most of their time living throughout the week will probably determine how they prefer to worship in public. I think this might also explain why, ironically, younger people actually prefer a more solemn liturgy than the middle aged group. They’re hungry for that kind of atmosphere because they don’t usually have it at any other time during the week. The middle aged/older group who may have drab and routine to their life to a high degree (sorry, lol!), may want a more sensual experience. Say, a cup of strong coffee as opposed to a sedating herbal tea.

This is purely focusing on bodily needs. Sacramentally, the Mass provides what the soul needs no matter what. Projecting these subjective bodily desires to the whole population is as prudent as telling the world that everybody should eat sausage & eggs for breakfast, but never oatmeal.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m not following this. I spoke to one pastor once about more traditional hymns and he said he can’t get the volunteer music director to do anything he says. The music in his parish was dictated by the music committee.

Not saying this happens in your parish, but I think every parish is different. In some parishes they truly reflect what the people want. In others, it’s just want the pastor or music director wants, etc.

As you say, the liturgy is never anyone’s property, so shouldn’t parishes (which have more than one Sunday mass) have different music styles at different masses to accommodate different people? Or rotate the music genre weekly?

Thoughts?

God Bless

Of course they are different.
But you hit the nail on the head. They are VOLUNTEERS. You get what you pay for. If a parish doesn’t not value the liturgy to the extent that they want and demand quality, they know they can’t complain too much. In our case the response is always “ppor girl, we pay her so little, I don’t want to be mean.”

So people run amok. It’s just the way it is.

Parishes in general around here follow the switch itup model, becuase it’s a different volunteer group for each Mass. The norm here is:
Old garage band people for the folksy Sat night mass which the elders of the parish go to.
Vintage hymns for the more trad people at the 830
Christian radio music for the 11 which the young families attend.

My problem with that last one is, we are raising a whole generation of children who do not know classic Catholic hymns. At the last May Crowning, the only person singing Immaculate Mary was me.

 

[Gertabelle]

Of course they are different.
But you hit the nail on the head. They are VOLUNTEERS. You get what you pay for. If a parish doesn’t not value the liturgy to the extent that they want and demand quality, they know they can’t complain too much. In our case the response is always “ppor girl, we pay her so little, I don’t want to be mean.”

So people run amok. It’s just the way it is.

Parishes in general around here follow the switch itup model, becuase it’s a different volunteer group for each Mass. The norm here is:
Old garage band people for the folksy Sat night mass which the elders of the parish go to.
Vintage hymns for the more trad people at the 830
Christian radio music for the 11 which the young families attend.

My problem with that last one is, we are raising a whole generation of children who do not know classic Catholic hymns. At the last May Crowning, the only person singing Immaculate Mary was me.

Yup. At my parish we are all volunteers – not one single musician, singer, or choir director gets paid a penny. But we are dearly loved.

5:00 pm Saturday is a couple older folks and a pianist. Mostly more recent music, post V2.
7:30 am – lovely old Sister and a cantor.
9:00 am – full choir of senior citizens, sing more recent stuff, and a bit of traditional stuff, but not too much.
11:00 am – “choir” of “kids” (ages 11 - 24), sing traditional hymns, Latin, chants. Incidentally, this is the mass our 100+ confirmation students and their families attend.
1:00 pm – Spanish mass with guitars, piano, drums, tambourines, and SO MUCH heart and energy. :bounce: Many of my students and their families attend this mass.

On Holy Thursday each year, we have a bilingual mass where an amalgamation of the Spanish groups and the English groups take turns leading the hymns and the parts of the mass – absolutely LOVE it. We alternate between piano, organ, guitar, English, Spanish, Latin, traditional, modern… It is utterly amazing, a little taste of heaven.

 

[pianistclare]

Yup. At my parish we are all volunteers – not one single musician, singer, or choir director gets paid a penny. But we are dearly loved.

5:00 pm Saturday is a couple older folks and a pianist. Mostly more recent music, post V2.
7:30 am – lovely old Sister and a cantor.
9:00 am – full choir of senior citizens, sing more recent stuff, and a bit of traditional stuff, but not too much.
11:00 am – “choir” of “kids” (ages 11 - 24), sing traditional hymns, Latin, chants. Incidentally, this is the mass our 100+ confirmation students and their families attend.
1:00 pm – Spanish mass with guitars, piano, drums, tambourines, and SO MUCH heart and energy. :bounce: Many of my students and their families attend this mass.

On Holy Thursday each year, we have a bilingual mass where an amalgamation of the Spanish groups and the English groups take turns leading the hymns and the parts of the mass – absolutely LOVE it. We alternate between piano, organ, guitar, English, Spanish, Latin, traditional, modern… It is utterly amazing, a little taste of heaven.

Oh you reminded me…i play at the 2 PM Spanish Mass. As a volunteer.

When figuring my work hours, my pastor said I couldn’t count those rehearsals weekly, because “they don’t have anything to do with the parish. It’s just something you do for your own mental health”.

 

[graciew]

. It’s just something you do for your own mental health".

:console:

 

[pianistclare]

:console:

Aw thank you~

We should pray for quality music at our parishes, and may our Music directors be skilled and appreciated!

 

[Roseeurekacross]

As Catholic’s we were not exactly ever encouraged to sing. That was the job of the choir, the schola, the cantor, whomever. School children are taught to sing in Catholic schools but as we get older, that falls away. We somehow have begun to believe that unless our offering is PERFECT (witness this thread) then it’s unworthy.
This happens in my current parish. You see everyone taking a songsheet and then just staring at the choir.
Choir leaders would do well to select accessible music, and encourage folks to participate.
We musicians are called to lead in song, not monopolize the song. The song is part of the prayer.

We all sing, for better or worse

 

[babochka]

We all sing, for better or worse

So do we. Sometimes it sounds better than others This morning was rough. It was like there were three different things going on in different parts of the church. We finally got it figured out and started sounding better about halfway through. Most days we do remarkably well.

 

[zab]

Don’t worry about it.
If other instruments besides for pipe organs were the only thing allowed, no other culture could have music at Mass.
Clearly the Mass is universal.
Play it if you want, and ignore those snooty people who roll their eyes about it.
Mass is for everyone, in every stage of life, every demographic, and every culture.
Some cultures use tambourines.
On the pueblos they use native drums. It’s nice. And very reverent.
good luck!

I disagree with you on this one, pianistclare. It is true that certain cultures have their own unique music (and sometimes even dance) that is very appropriate in their celebration of the Mass. But in our country, the use of the tambourine as well as much of the old music from decades past is a fad that has run it’s course in many places. Perhaps I have gotten spoiled to the beautiful sacred music that our latest choir leaders have brought to our parish choirs over the past eight or so years. Recently I attended a Mass held at St. Martin’s Abbey for the marchers for the March For Life in Olympia, WA and at times I felt like I was back in the 70’s and dare I say, the responsorial psalm sounded like something from Mr. Roger’s neighborhood. The difference in music in our parish from that of the choir at the pavilion is like night and day. It would be like a huge leap backwards if we were to return to the music and lyrics of the 70’s in our parish. The OP has asked for our thoughts so giving my response does not make me “snooty”.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I disagree with you on this one, pianistclare. It is true that certain cultures have their own unique music (and sometimes even dance) that is very appropriate in their celebration of the Mass. But in our country, the use of the tambourine as well as much of the old music from decades past is a fad that has run it’s course in many places. Perhaps I have gotten spoiled to the beautiful sacred music that our latest choir leaders have brought to our parish choirs over the past eight or so years. Recently I attended a Mass held at St. Martin’s Abbey for the marchers for the March For Life in Olympia, WA and at times I felt like I was back in the 70’s and dare I say, the responsorial psalm sounded like something from Mr. Roger’s neighborhood. The difference in music in our parish from that of the choir at the pavilion is like night and day. It would be like a huge leap backwards if we were to return to the music and lyrics of the 70’s in our parish. The OP has asked for our thoughts so giving my response does not make me “snooty”.

Is it really just a fad though? I actually think the whole guitar/tambourine music set-up is very much a traditional “American” sound, especially when I think of Appalachian music (if not tambourine, usually something percussive in nature) and the influence of African American spirituals/Jazz music.

youtube.com/watch?v=yQIJuu3N5EY

youtube.com/watch?v=W7kZrssy7KQ

youtube.com/watch?v=PhA2wR4Gpk0

 

[M-Dent]

Is it really just a fad though? I actually think the whole guitar/tambourine music set-up is very much a traditional “American” sound, especially when I think of Appalachian music (if not tambourine, usually something percussive in nature) and the influence of African American spirituals/Jazz music.

In the majority of the US, the Liturgical music pre-Vatican II was Gregorian chant and choral music. In the 1970’s onward (though not as prevalent today), the music in some Catholic parishes in the US {utilizing the guitar} was folk orientated that may have had some roots in Traditional Irish and Appalachian music. Protestant Americans had gospel music; which was more the traditional “American” sound.