Tarot cards for non-Tarot purposes

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Look, a stack of Tarot cards is pretty-painted paste board. They can’t tell the future, they can’t tell the past, they can’t read your mind, and they burn at 451 degress F like any other blob of paper.

Tarot started out as an Italian card game, and is where we get our regular playing cards from. They were just pretty because Italians like to doll up everything. (Yes, I’m proud of my Italian heritidge. 👍 )

Anybody who thinks Tarot cards can do anything mystical is an idiot. I’m not saying that demons can’t take an opportunity to hit on a weak-willed person, I’m saying that Tarot cards, the cards themselves, are playing cards. And anybody who believes that they’re some kind of spiritual assistant is off his block, which is why I get into fights with some of my Wiccan friends at times, but that’s beside the point.

I’m bringing this up because I do NOT believe that Tarot cards are useful, good to have, etc. for New Age purposes. I just plain don’t.

Now, I’m a writer, and I like to play around with different ways of creating new characters. One person (I can’t remember who or where) suggested using Tarot cards to come up with either a story plot or with a character’s personality profile.

Which I think is kind of cool if you’re stuck for a plot point or want to create a new character completely from scratch. I won’t buy a set of Tarot cards, but there are all kinds of weird websites out there that do free Tarot card readings and so on, which is bizarre ( you’re having a computer make stuff up with a random number generator, and this is how you base your life?! Wonky…).

So, is it morally unacceptable to use a computer program with a random number generator that selects graphics based on variations on Italian playing cards to create a random character profile if you’re writing a novel? I’m not saying it that way to be a smart aleck. That’s literally what happens if you use one of those websites. I know that the Church frowns on using Tarot cards, so I don’t own any anymore (used to, threw them away, even though the pictures were pretty).

Opinions? Suggestions? It sounds like a fun idea, and New Agers have come up with so many variations on the Tarot card set that you can have all kinds of story potentials just by changing the type of cards you use (Dragon Tarot vs. Faerie Tarot vs. Enochian Tarot vs. Feminist Tarot) and going by what the “meanings” are for the variations.

At the same token, I don’t want to do something that’s genuinely bad.

I like using random generators, like the ones you can find here:

seventhsanctum.com/

They’ve got TONS of random generators, but as you can see, they only provide very basic outlines and very basic plot ideas or character ideas. If you throw down a randomly generated Tarot Celtic spread, you get a person’s “past,” “future,” “mental blocks,” and all kinds of stuff you can use to forward a story when you’re stuck.

Again, I’m giving details because I want to show where I’m coming from with this. It does seem like it would be a handy tool for fiction writing, but I’d like to hear the opinions of others before I head off and have a computer do a spred for me.

I want to reiterate: this would be a plot creation device for a fictional story. It would be done for a fictional character who has never existed to create a broad range of random traits that, taken together, can make a good story character. That’s the purpose, and that’s the only purpose, as I don’t believe that Tarot cards have any more magic to them than baseball cards that come with a stick of petrified chewing gum.

Opinions, thoughts, etc, are welcome.
 
Think I’ll subscribe to this thread just because I think you are trolling for folks fool enough to try to swim in this tar pit. Should be fun.

My grandmother used to tell fortunes using a deck of poker cards so just about anything can be used in a wrong way. There has been at least one writer who has asserted that the major arcana of the tarot are derived from Catholic theology. If I can remember the name I’ll send it later.

So I think there is nothing intrinsically evil about a deck of cards. Having said that, the typical use for a tarot deck is to attempt to connect with the “spirit world” to learn and hopefully manipulate the future. This can have seriously malign consequences for the misguided seeker.

St. Paul talks about meat sacrificed to idols. He notes that even though we know that idols are nothing, we should refrain from eating sacrificed meat if it might cause others to fall.

To me this is good advice. I have seen the damage that seemingly occult practices can cause so I refrain from association with any of them even though they might seem innocuous to me.

This old man thinks that it might be better to do whatever is consistent with your faith and practice and avoid public displays that might tempt the naive or unwary.

The Chancellor
 
I’m familiar with the card game, I actually play every Sunday with some French friends here in Pittsburgh.

I think that few people know that the standard 52-card deck that we use today was derived from tarot cards. I certainly had no idea before I was introduced to the game (which has 78 cards).

As for whether or not it’s ok to draw cards randomly to choose characters for your story, I wouldn’t think it’s an intrinsic problem, but that’s just my $.02.
 
Oh no no no, I won’t own another set of Tarot cards - I’m not talking about using actual cards. I’m talking about the computer generated websites that “choose cards” through a random number generator. So it’s not like I’m actually drawing a real card.

Chancellor:

Eep! Oh no, I promise! I’m not trolling. If you’re a Catholic and you don’t think that using the computer generated random number system that presents itself as a Tarot card website in the course of writing a story is acceptable, I’m 100% interested in hearing why not.

Interested as in, I want good advice so I can weigh the issue before I go off and do it.

This is me personally: To my mind, anything so far removed from the physical as to actually be on a computer is a goofy thing to believe in.

As to the matter of using cards to connect to the “spirit world,” since I think that’s a bunch of bunk, I don’t do it, nor would I use even the online versions for that.

‘St. Paul talks about meat sacrificed to idols. He notes that even though we know that idols are nothing, we should refrain from eating sacrificed meat if it might cause others to fall.’

Exactly! But… that’s where I’m personally getting hung up. “Don’t do something that will make someone else fall,” I can get behind 100%. But I don’t intend to tell anyone that my characters were picked at random by a Tarot card generator, and I don’t want anyone using them for anything like spirit calling or whatever. (Which is why I’ll never own or operate an Ouiji board, come to think of it.)

See, I’m concerned. It’s not a public display - it’s building up part of a story at random and then using it for fictional purposes. I don’t advertise in my fiction what instruments I use for writing, like random generators, so I’m not sure if this will have a negative effect on anyone else. And that’s where I’m stumped.

Chancellor, thanks for taking the time to answer, and all of you. Could you please elaborate a little on your thoughts about using them for fiction in the context listed above? Thanks again, a million, for your help.
 
This reminds me of when I was in high school. I had a couple of friends who used to dabble in “new age spirituality”, and I used to get on their nerves by playing Solitaire with their tarot decks. I couldn’t see any better purpose for them. 😃
 
tabsie3210 said:
Oh no no no, I won’t own another set of Tarot cards - I’m not talking about using actual cards. I’m talking about the computer generated websites that “choose cards” through a random number generator. So it’s not like I’m actually drawing a real card.

Thank you for your thoughtful detailed response. Now I could be totally wrong but when you say, “Oh no no no, I won’t own another set of Tarot cards”, I wonder if that means that you did own a tarot deck at one time, and that you have a strong reason to not own one again. Is this correct?

Remember, a tarot card is a tarot card whether it is on TV, randomly generated, or drawn from a deck.

If you have ever used or been tempted to use tarot cards in an occult way then I would say that you have nothing to gain and everything to lose by continuing to flirt with the images.

I am a Roman Catholic who was raised in a spiritualist family. Personally I will not go near tarot card or a ouija board. Unlike many who post on these threads I will not try to tell you what to do, but if the images are enough of a problem for you that you seek advice in this forum, maybe God is suggesting that you might find a different way to generate characters.

The Chancellor
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tabsie3210 said:
Look, a stack of Tarot cards is pretty-painted paste board. They can’t tell the future, they can’t tell the past, they can’t read your mind, and they burn at 451 degress F like any other blob of paper.

Tarot started out as an Italian card game, and is where we get our regular playing cards from. They were just pretty because Italians like to doll up everything. (Yes, I’m proud of my Italian heritidge. 👍 )

Anybody who thinks Tarot cards can do anything mystical is an idiot. I’m not saying that demons can’t take an opportunity to hit on a weak-willed person, I’m saying that Tarot cards, the cards themselves, are playing cards. And anybody who believes that they’re some kind of spiritual assistant is off his block, which is why I get into fights with some of my Wiccan friends at times, but that’s beside the point.

I’m bringing this up because I do NOT believe that Tarot cards are useful, good to have, etc. for New Age purposes. I just plain don’t.

Now, I’m a writer, and I like to play around with different ways of creating new characters. One person (I can’t remember who or where) suggested using Tarot cards to come up with either a story plot or with a character’s personality profile.

Which I think is kind of cool if you’re stuck for a plot point or want to create a new character completely from scratch. I won’t buy a set of Tarot cards, but there are all kinds of weird websites out there that do free Tarot card readings and so on, which is bizarre ( you’re having a computer make stuff up with a random number generator, and this is how you base your life?! Wonky…).

So, is it morally unacceptable to use a computer program with a random number generator that selects graphics based on variations on Italian playing cards to create a random character profile if you’re writing a novel? I’m not saying it that way to be a smart aleck. That’s literally what happens if you use one of those websites. I know that the Church frowns on using Tarot cards, so I don’t own any anymore (used to, threw them away, even though the pictures were pretty).

Opinions? Suggestions? It sounds like a fun idea, and New Agers have come up with so many variations on the Tarot card set that you can have all kinds of story potentials just by changing the type of cards you use (Dragon Tarot vs. Faerie Tarot vs. Enochian Tarot vs. Feminist Tarot) and going by what the “meanings” are for the variations.

At the same token, I don’t want to do something that’s genuinely bad.

I like using random generators, like the ones you can find here:

seventhsanctum.com/

They’ve got TONS of random generators, but as you can see, they only provide very basic outlines and very basic plot ideas or character ideas. If you throw down a randomly generated Tarot Celtic spread, you get a person’s “past,” “future,” “mental blocks,” and all kinds of stuff you can use to forward a story when you’re stuck.

Again, I’m giving details because I want to show where I’m coming from with this. It does seem like it would be a handy tool for fiction writing, but I’d like to hear the opinions of others before I head off and have a computer do a spred for me.

I want to reiterate: this would be a plot creation device for a fictional story. It would be done for a fictional character who has never existed to create a broad range of random traits that, taken together, can make a good story character. That’s the purpose, and that’s the only purpose, as I don’t believe that Tarot cards have any more magic to them than baseball cards that come with a stick of petrified chewing gum.

Opinions, thoughts, etc, are welcome.
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The occult is satan’s playground, and I don’t think that any Christian should be playing with satanic powers or forces for any reasons.
 
SeekerJen said:
This reminds me of when I was in high school. I had a couple of friends who used to dabble in “new age spirituality”, and I used to get on their nerves by playing Solitaire with their tarot decks. I couldn’t see any better purpose for them. 😃
Click to expand...
“I played poker with a tarot deck once. I got a full house and four people died.”

– Stephen Wright
 
Chancellor said:
There has been at least one writer who has asserted that the major arcana of the tarot are derived from Catholic theology. If I can remember the name I’ll send it later.
Click to expand...
…Oh sure, just make Jack Chick’s mission easier…

Actually I am very interested, now…
 
Chancellor:

Thanks for talking to me. ((makes a face)) I used to own an Enochian Tarot deck because it was really pretty and it looked interesting, but I made one attempt to do something with it and, as I was looking down at the deck, thought, “This is the stupidest thing on earth.” It felt terribly goofy to try to tell fortunes with it because I would pick one up and I realized that the gloss was not as high on it as a standard deck of 52 playing cards, which brought home the fact that they were playing cards.

Now around that time I discovered magic, the real kind, like what Penn and Teller do - illusions that use slight of hand and psychological games to make someone think that you’re doing something amazing, but it’s really just a trick.

Speaking as someone with Wiccan friends, I have to say, I have yet to see their magic do anything. If they keep casting spells for money, how come they’re always hitting me up for cash? 🤷

Anyway. So I heard about psychological magic tricks and I discovered that my useless-for-spiritualist-purposes cards were useful for tricks. And I pulled a Penn and Teller at the end of them to explain how the tricks were done. They were fun, but I decided that too many people take them seriously, so I tossed them and decided that I would never waste my money on another useless pile of junk like that. So I won’t. I don’t read my horoscope, I don’t play with ouiji boards, and I don’t buy Tarot cards.

Which is a shame 'cause some of them are really pretty, but they’re sold for the wrong reasons, so I don’t spend good money on pointless junk.

See, I play computer games like "The Sims’ because I love doll houses, but even so, I know there’s a level of removal from a doll house to a computer game like a doll house. That’s where I was thrown.

I’m a smart girl - if someone gives me advice, I listen. I’m still weighing the evidence, but I hear you loud and clear and will keep your thoughts foremost in my mind before I do anything. :yup:

That’s why I brought it up here. I wanted honest opinions. And you’ve been a big help by giving me yours.
 
I actually am creating a Catholic tarot. I’ve got a few of the Major Arcana worked out:

**0—The Fool: ** Yes, you. Playing with Tarots? You’re going to hell.
**VII—The Chariot: ** Remove the horses, it’s a handcart – that you’re going to hell in.
**V—The Pope: ** …says infallibly you’re going to hell.
**XIII—Death: **The wages of sin! You’re going to hell.
**IX—The Hermit: ** You can run, you can hide, but you’re still going to hell.
**X—The Wheel of Fortune: ** Buy a vowel: Y__'r_ g__ng t_ h_ll.
**XX—Judgement: ** Yeah, you’re in for it. The Judgement is…you’re going to hell.
**XXI—The World: ** What does this profit you, when you’re going to hell?
**XV—The Devil: **Contrary to popular belief, this card has nothing to do with Satan. “The Devil” is actually the card of self-bondage to an idea or belief which is preventing us from growing—an example could include believing that getting drunk each night is good for you. It can also be a warning to someone who is too restrained and/or dispassionate and never allows himself to follow his heart rather than his head—yet another form of self-enslavement. However, you’re still going to hell.
 
adstrinity said:
…Oh sure, just make Jack Chick’s mission easier…

Actually I am very interested, now…
Click to expand...
I knew Jack Chick for a while back in the early 1970s. I think his work anticipated the ultraviolent graphic novels. I sort of liked his little tracts back then but not for any reason that would give glory to God. Some of my colleagues who were psychology interns referred to his stuff as “undifferentiated sexual-aggressive material”. I don’t think this was a compliment.

I haven’t heard the name Jack Chick in 30 years, now I have to go to Google.

The Chancellor
 
Chris La Rock:

It’s hard sometimes because having seen the “New Age Movement” up close and personal, I realized that it was 100% bunk and had to be the silliest thing I ever heard of. Of course I had to go through it myself to a point, but it never enticed me away from wanting to remain a Catholic, so I still attended Mass and read the Bible. And it made me so totally disillusioned with “magic” and “spiritism” and all that other carp that I dove head-first into Catholicism and found my true love in orthodoxy. Catholicism makes sense. Wicca / Neopaganism doesn’t.

So I have a hard time believing that anything they use is “occult” because it’s a lump of junk.

Which is why I’m coming here for more level heads to give me advice. Personally, I’d have used the online random generator Tarot sites myself without hesitation for ficiton, except…

Well, this is going to sound stupid, but I wondered if I wasn’t being irrationally angry with the New Age movement for being a pack of lies. I don’t mean righteous anger - all Catholics should feel that about the way the New Age movement lies to our friends and neighbors. I mean I was personally offended by being suckered.

So I was thinking, maybe, because I was angry, I was planning to use a random card generator like that for my writing to spit in the eye, so to speak, of the people who think they know everything. Which would make me petty and spiteful.

So I brought it here and I’ve gotten very good advice. Please feel free to elaborate on your thoughts and opinions if you want to, Chris. I’m interested in hearing your opinion in detail if you wish. I’d rather hear a hundred people say “don’t” and don’t, then have to spend an extra fifty years in purgatory burning off something as silly as a tarot card.
 
On Jack Chick:

I think a lot of his stuff is very paranoid. He suggested burning books, especially stuff by C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, for being satanic.

Later he had that tract edited so that the part about burning Lewis and Tolkien was left out when he found out that Lewis was a professional Christian apologist and that Tolkien actually got him back into Christianity. I wonder why he didn’t put Tolkien back in there as something to burn when he found out Tolkien was a Catholic? Oh well, maybe nobody’s enlightened him yet…
 
tabsie3210 said:
On Jack Chick:

I think a lot of his stuff is very paranoid. He suggested burning books, especially stuff by C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, for being satanic.

Later he had that tract edited so that the part about burning Lewis and Tolkien was left out when he found out that Lewis was a professional Christian apologist and that Tolkien actually got him back into Christianity. I wonder why he didn’t put Tolkien back in there as something to burn when he found out Tolkien was a Catholic? Oh well, maybe nobody’s enlightened him yet…
Click to expand...
tabsie,

I just took a look at 'ol Jack’s stuff. Paranoid is probably a kind way to describe it. He subcribes to anti-Catholic conspiracy theories that are so bizarre that that they probably encourage converting to the Catholic church.

Thanks for a blast from the past. Nothing much has changed for Jack in the past thirty years except he can afford color tracts now.

The Chancellor
 
tabsie3210 said:
Chris La Rock:

It’s hard sometimes because having seen the “New Age Movement” up close and personal, I realized that it was 100% bunk and had to be the silliest thing I ever heard of. Of course I had to go through it myself to a point, but it never enticed me away from wanting to remain a Catholic, so I still attended Mass and read the Bible. And it made me so totally disillusioned with “magic” and “spiritism” and all that other carp that I dove head-first into Catholicism and found my true love in orthodoxy. Catholicism makes sense. Wicca / Neopaganism doesn’t.

So I have a hard time believing that anything they use is “occult” because it’s a lump of junk.

Which is why I’m coming here for more level heads to give me advice. Personally, I’d have used the online random generator Tarot sites myself without hesitation for ficiton, except…

Well, this is going to sound stupid, but I wondered if I wasn’t being irrationally angry with the New Age movement for being a pack of lies. I don’t mean righteous anger - all Catholics should feel that about the way the New Age movement lies to our friends and neighbors. I mean I was personally offended by being suckered.

So I was thinking, maybe, because I was angry, I was planning to use a random card generator like that for my writing to spit in the eye, so to speak, of the people who think they know everything. Which would make me petty and spiteful.

So I brought it here and I’ve gotten very good advice. Please feel free to elaborate on your thoughts and opinions if you want to, Chris. I’m interested in hearing your opinion in detail if you wish. I’d rather hear a hundred people say “don’t” and don’t, then have to spend an extra fifty years in purgatory burning off something as silly as a tarot card.
Click to expand...
Deu 7:26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.

Psa 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

I’m not going to tell you what to do, but it might be wise not to play with fire. Even if your purposes aren’t occultic, you could still be opening yourself up to spiritual beings and forces that could harm you.

A group of Christian missionaries went to Africa. One of them bought a ‘cute little statue’ from a market place and took it home with him for decoration. Strange things started to happen.

It turned out that the ‘statue’ was an idol, and an exorcism was needed to rid the household of the demons that accompanied the idol.
 
Ghoti:

:confused:

Uh, I’m… not sure how to take this. I don’t play with Tarot cards… I gave it up after I realized that using playing cards to tell the future was a new level of dumb. I thought people only went to hell if they rejected Jesus’ mercy and refused to ask forgiveness for sins and turn away from doing evil? And… I thought that asking about it on the forums would be a good way to avoid doing evil? I mean… the general consensus was that it’s not a good idea to use the computer generated Tarot deck for my writing, so I’m sticking to more licit random storyline generators for inspiration.

:hmmm:

I don’t know if I’m being terribly dense and missing the joke or if that was personally directed at me. I will withhold any judgement or any further comments until you’ve had a fair chance at a rebuttle.

:hypno:
 
Seeing that you like random generators and you want to use the card program not for its future telling purpose, and particularly that you are not going to tell ANYONE that you used the program to generate the characters (since that might lead others to sin with the card program), I am inclined to think you could try this prayerfully once if God does nopt tell you not to, and see what He seems to want for you.

I mean, pray about it. Perhaps, pray a Novena first (nine-hour or nine-day) asking God to lead you from it if He would not have you use it. At least pray a rosary with that intention before you sit down to use it.

Perhaps when you pray this way God will lead you away by giving you a different idea, so that each time you get turned away.

Perhaps you won’t feel a “no” from Him on it, and you will try it for a character anyway. Then you vcan keep yor feelers open the whole time looking to see if God is leading you away as you use it.

In a way using the program for your own non-occult purposes seems like denying the puny power of the lower one, who runs from plastic beads and water.

Yes, and sprinkle yourself and your screen with Holy Water before you use it too.

Then again, this might be a great success and you write a book that sells and sequels are called for. Then folks will want to know where you get your ideas. Uh oh. Perhaps when things start going that way you can get someone to write you a program that does the same thing so you aren’t permanently tied to tarot cards for your living.
 
You could try a deck of the tarot nouveau (new tarot in French) cards. Instead of the traditional tarot symbols they have pictures of French social scenes. Those are the cards that French people use when they play tarot now.

Here’s some info and a nice picture of them all laid out:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot_Nouveau
 
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