Tarot Cards : Middle age divination, or a middle age self help utility?

[Irish_Polock]

My wife has practiced as a Wicca in the past (long ago, in our search of truth) and has somehow held to the idea that Tarot cards are of little concern to the sanctity of our home.
My argument is that - even though she doesn’t use them and they are packed away in our closet somewhere - they could still allow a unnecessary doorway for evil to enter our home.

Her argument is: She doesn’t feel that it should be concern for our family. She has told me “…it really shouldn’t be because, she has never used them for anything other then self development”. Further, she feels that it - having been a part of her past - Is part of her identity, therefore, I am sure she has reservations about throwing them out.

My goal is to hear from individualizes whom are outside of the Catholic Church (New age and such) to further explain why and how someone could use the Tarot to develop their persona, although everyone’s insight would be welcomed.

Additionally, if there is are any official Church teachings on the Tarot specifically that would be tremendously helpful!

Have fun, and God be with you!

 

[benidict]

the Tarot…ok. it depends on how she would be using them. the tarot, can be looked at several different ways. i think if someone is attempting to use them for say…cardromancy i.e. fortune telling and the like. then that would be practicing divination, which Catholicism is against. however, there is a strong indication that the Tarot are tied in with the Kabballah and Jewish mysticism. using them as a tool for self discovery, can be benificial. there is also the view, that they can be used to probe into anothers phyche. i used to use these before my conversion to Catholicism. i did a reading on a gentleman and what popped up was interesting. the reading seemed all muddled. then i noticed some things. the reading had less to do with him, than concerns he was having with his wife. his gambling addiction came out. his adulterous behavior, and how his wife was thinking of dealing with this. he was in denial of course. until i saw him a month later, and he spilled his guts that it was all true, and his wife was up in the air about if she was going to leave him or not. i am of the opinion that it is more of a bridge to what the person being read is going through on an internal level. that being said. i got rid of these and other things i had before my conversion. the only thing i retained from that time, was my study of the kabballah. i have since found out, many Catholics study this. more as an academic exercise than actual practice since there are pitfalls here as well if you engage in them. hope this helps. Peace

 

[Publisher]

I do not believe Taro cards have any “supernatural” power…nor do I believe they are a “doorway” into some dark realm.

I think from my own reading on the subject and discussions with Wiccan friends…they are a tool of self discovery. The images are “archetypes of the personality”…while each card does carry with it an interpretation…those acquaintences I have discussed the subject with…see them as “The Fool’s Journey”…a “picturebook” of the soul’s journey toward the Eternal.

They are steeped in Jewish and Christian mysticism, but have universal appeal for most esoteric traditions.

I have a Rider-Waite deck in a drawer somewhere with a book concerning it’s symbology and the Qabalah. It is interesting.

One of my acquaintences is a family therapist…she uses the cards in some of her sessions to understand the psyche of her clients…she has them pic a card that in their mind best represents themselves…then she has them “interpret” the card to gain insight into their mind-workings and their “self image”.

 

[benidict]

I do not believe Taro cards have any “supernatural” power…nor do I believe they are a “doorway” into some dark realm.

I think from my own reading on the subject and discussions with Wiccan friends…they are a tool of self discovery. The images are “archetypes of the personality”…while each card does carry with it an interpretation…those acquaintences I have discussed the subject with…see them as “The Fool’s Journey”…a “picturebook” of the soul’s journey toward the Eternal.

They are steeped in Jewish and Christian mysticism, but have universal appeal for most esoteric traditions.

I have a Rider-Waite deck in a drawer somewhere with a book concerning it’s symbology and the Qabalah. It is interesting.

One of my acquaintences is a family therapist…she uses the cards in some of her sessions to understand the psyche of her clients…she has them pic a card that in their mind best represents themselves…then she has them “interpret” the card to gain insight into their mind-workings and their “self image”.

i would have to say the rider-waite deck is the most accurate in terms of symbology, and bringing out a clearer meaning of the Jewish and Christian mystic teachings. wow publisher. we actually agree on something. will wonders never cease? lol! peace

 

[God_is_truth]

Personally, wicca is an okay spiritual path.I have no issues with it. tarot cards, however CAN open evil pathways for dark spirits to come through, even if you try to use them for good. People i know to work w. tarots turn out to be VERY spiritual intact. sounds like your wife is very in tune w. the spirituality. Just talk her out of it the best way you can. Maybe she could try medicine cards. they are not as creepy as tarots. they are from native American spirituality. they don’t tell the future.They help you w. issues you have within yourself. research them w. your wife. she should use these instead of tarots. God bless!!!

 

[mdrummer5]

I do not believe Taro cards have any “supernatural” power…nor do I believe they are a “doorway” into some dark realm.

Agreed… frankly I think they are simply a bunch of hooey.

I see nothing wrong with and have nothing against anyone using them… but I think they are wasting they’re time. I could be quite ignorant on this but my understanding is that each card represents a very vague idea which presents what is known as the Barnum Effect named after P.T. Barnum of the Barnum and Bailey Circus who’s slogan was “something for everyone” which is why this effect is named this way. Because the interpretations from tarot or horoscopes or any other form of “fortune telling” could be applied to anyone.

My horoscope for today…

Friday, Jan 14, 2011
Flexibility, thinking on your feet, and the ability to accommodate the unexpected will be called for now. The pace is very quick. You will be pulled in many directions at once and will tend to scatter your forces, jumping from one thing to the next. Positively, you may come up with some fresh, original plan or insight that may seem crazy at first, but which is likely to be quite useful.

I can think of ways to shoot that down or ways in which it fits… it’s all a matter of interpretation. I bet anyone here could do the same.

Edit: Please understand that the above is strictly my opinion on something based on the very little knowledge I have of it.

 

[Hastrman]

Point of order, Tarot is pretty late to be medieval; they only entered Europe in the late 14th century (which, admittedly, puts them in what Regine Pernoud classified as the “medieval” period, but she restricted it to 1300-1500).

However, for the first 300 or so years of its presence in the West, it was a card game; its divinatory use starts in the 18th century.

Medievals weren’t superstitious; that nonsense came in with the Black Plague and really picked up in the Renaissance. For instance, in France between the 8th and 13th centuries, a person making witchcraft accusations was likely to be charged with heresy.

 

[mdrummer5]

Medievals weren’t superstitious; that nonsense came in with the Black Plague and really picked up in the Renaissance. For instance, in France between the 8th and 13th centuries, a person making witchcraft accusations was likely to be charged with heresy.

Completely off topic… but it’s friday and I’m feeling goofy and this just reminded me…

‘What burns? Wood. When you put wood in water, it … floats. What else floats … a duck. So, if she is no heavier than a duck, she must be a witch!’

 

[kenofken]

My wife has practiced as a Wicca in the past (long ago, in our search of truth) and has somehow held to the idea that Tarot cards are of little concern to the sanctity of our home.
My argument is that - even though she doesn’t use them and they are packed away in our closet somewhere - they could still allow a unnecessary doorway for evil to enter our home.

Her argument is: She doesn’t feel that it should be concern for our family. She has told me “…it really shouldn’t be because, she has never used them for anything other then self development”. Further, she feels that it - having been a part of her past - Is part of her identity, therefore, I am sure she has reservations about throwing them out.

My goal is to hear from individualizes whom are outside of the Catholic Church (New age and such) to further explain why and how someone could use the Tarot to develop their persona, although everyone’s insight would be welcomed.

Additionally, if there is are any official Church teachings on the Tarot specifically that would be tremendously helpful!

Have fun, and God be with you!

The cards are just that, a collection of printed images that can be used as tools for divination or simple meditation or just simply as collectibles. They are indeed filled with rich imagery and layers of meaning, Traditional decks were designed and interpreted largely on a Judeo-Christian interpretation of creation, although it is steeped in mystical traditions like Kaballah and alchemy. Its richness of symbolism of course makes it an ideal tool for divination, particularly those who seek to do very nuanced and detailed reads. However, there is nothing inherent in the cards which conveys that gift, and divination can be done with a vast number of objects, including common household items.

Personally I think the Tarot’s most interesting uses lie not in its divination uses but in the “self development” your wife alludes to. You can use these cards as focal points for meditation (even prayer) about specific themes depicted within them. What is the nature of loss? Of death? Of the union between the male and female creative elements of God? How does Earthly creation reflect God’s own nature and plan? What does this idea of “brokenness” after the Fall of Man mean?

You will, no doubt hear all sorts of breathless warnings about “occult evil” on this thread. I will assert that divination itself is a misunderstood art and no more evil or supernatural than meteorology or mathematics. Your Church says otherwise, and if you’re truly Catholic, you’ll want to take their authority over mine. However, I will suggest to you that the only true “doorway to evil” lies not in Tarot cards or any other physical artifact of any kind. It lies in your own heart and mind. A person’s own pettiness and anger and selfishness and spitefulness will channel evil into your home and lives FAR more effectively than any object or even any working carried out by the darkest magickal worker who everl lived.

 

[Hastrman]

You will, no doubt hear all sorts of breathless warnings about “occult evil” on this thread. I will assert that divination itself is a misunderstood art and no more evil or supernatural than meteorology or mathematics. Your Church says otherwise, and if you’re truly Catholic, you’ll want to take their authority over mine. However, I will suggest to you that the only true “doorway to evil” lies not in Tarot cards or any other physical artifact of any kind. It lies in your own heart and mind. A person’s own pettiness and anger and selfishness and spitefulness will channel evil into your home and lives FAR more effectively than any object or even any working carried out by the darkest magickal worker who everl lived.

Really? Well you better tell the Navajo. And the Hopi. And the Apache. And the Korean Shamans. And the Shinto priests, especially the Onmyoji. And all the other people who retain their real, ancient, traditional religions, instead of having “reconstructed” them.

Because know what? All the people who really believe in divination, and magic, believe that it’s incredibly dangerous. All Navajo sandpaintings, for instance, have a barrier around the edge, and it’s not to protect from “your own heart and mind”. It’s to protect you from the things you’re calling into the painting. Even that isn’t always enough; the more powerful paintings have additional guardian figures. And even then, they nearly never use the sandpainting invoking the Pink Thunder of the North, because he’s simply too dangerous.

Ask anyone who teaches high school in northern Arizona: Navajo kids like cat’s cradle. But they only play it in winter. Why? Because in any other season of the year, Old Lady Spider will curse them to their deaths if she sees them weaving.

I have no patience for neopagans; where I come from, a witch is a person who will kill you just to cut the skin off your fingertips, and use it to curse his enemies to death. Tell me, can you make it rain? Because the Hopi Snake Clan can.

 

[Hastrman]

However, I will suggest to you that the only true “doorway to evil” lies not in Tarot cards or any other physical artifact of any kind. It lies in your own heart and mind. A person’s own pettiness and anger and selfishness and spitefulness will channel evil into your home and lives FAR more effectively than any object or even any working carried out by the darkest magickal worker who everl lived.

You are assuming a distinction that does not exist. A person’s pettiness and spite, etc., are a pollution. And pursuing anything spiritual, even mere divination, while in a condition of pollution is really, really dangerous. Traditional Japanese diviners live according to the same purity code as their priests.

Traditionally, of course, Christianity acknowledges that—

Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
Mt 5:23-24

Indeed, the Eastern Orthodox have an “exorcism” (a minor one) for vaskania, which is the “evil eye”, the spiritual element of resentment over others’ success, wrongs in the past, etc.

 

[edwest2]

Tarot cards are a problem. Catholics should avoid them for their divination aspect. There are many types of decks and all should be avoided.

I see the word “spiritual” used here and it should be pointed out that each person has a soul. When we are baptized we are born again. The spirit within is the spirit God gave us. Although other faith traditions exist, Jesus showed us the true way.

I see little value in using them for other purposes. I hope the following article is helpful:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0109.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[Irish_Polock]

I am gonna disagree with most of you, I feel that the fact that they use a “spirituality” outside of Christ, that they not not only invite evil, they also attract evil. Am I wrong for thinking this way?

 

[kenofken]

I am gonna disagree with most of you, I feel that the fact that they use a “spirituality” outside of Christ, that they not not only invite evil, they also attract evil. Am I wrong for thinking this way?

The cards don’t use any spirituality of any kind. The cards themselves are just images on paper. It’s a person’s choice whether to use them as part of a spiritual practice or just as interesting collectible artwork. I think there’s a tendency on this forum for legitimate concern about non-doctrinal practices to cross over into full-blown obsession about occult-related items becoming “portals for evil” or somesuch nonsense. I don’t think many of you appreciate the irony in the fact that concern about magick and the occult has led you into some very magickal thinking.

At some point, it really becomes a form of fetishism and an almost Vodou-like belief in the power of cursed objects. Some of you attribute more power to everyday occult-themed bricabrac than you do the sacrifice of your own savior. There is a level of concern about such matters which is grounded in your doctrines. In most of what I see in the “spiritual warfare” corners of this forum, that concern has flowered into obsession and some very occult-like thinking. Whether you realize it or not, many of you are effectively indulging in witchcraft to safe yourself from witchcraft.

This focus on physical objects as repositories or conduits of evil as an external energy source is tempting because it suggests that evil is a form of spellcraft that can be conquered by another form of spellcraft (incanting the right prayers, burning, burying , salting the artifacts, etc.) It excuses you from the hard work of confronting evil where it really takes root: in your own minds and hearts.

 

[benidict]

I am gonna disagree with most of you, I feel that the fact that they use a “spirituality” outside of Christ, that they not not only invite evil, they also attract evil. Am I wrong for thinking this way?

i wouldnt say your wrong. its just your view. its ok to disagree with this. just as there is no dogma assosiated with the cards, from an occult perspective, people are going to have difference on opinion about them. like i said. i study Kabballah, as an accedemic exercise to sharpen my understanding of Judaism and how it relates to Christianity. some think kabballah is evil. some think it it is occultic. thats their view. im not going to argue it. i would say however if your wife respects you, she at least should not practice them in front of you. and you being uncomfortable with them, shoul d have nothing to do with them. Peace to you and yours.

 

[benidict]

Personally, wicca is an okay spiritual path.I have no issues with it. tarot cards, however CAN open evil pathways for dark spirits to come through, even if you try to use them for good. People i know to work w. tarots turn out to be VERY spiritual intact. sounds like your wife is very in tune w. the spirituality. Just talk her out of it the best way you can. Maybe she could try medicine cards. they are not as creepy as tarots. they are from native American spirituality. they don’t tell the future.They help you w. issues you have within yourself. research them w. your wife. she should use these instead of tarots. God bless!!!

i dont see how the tarot are creepy. personally i find the medicine cards hokey… sorry, couldnt resist. Peace

 

[Irish_Polock]

The cards don’t use any spirituality of any kind. The cards themselves are just images on paper. It’s a person’s choice whether to use them as part of a spiritual practice or just as interesting collectible artwork.

I have yet to meet anyone who only collects Tarot Cards for their artwork, I would assume that these collectors are the minority. I agree that these cards are just that - cards. Tools essentially, and like yourself, I don’t give these “tools” the any type of power in and of themselves. Although, they are indeed ”tools” that people start to place power on, and start to believe they receive a power from said “tools”. People start to believe that they (the tools) are the source of this power and this is when it becomes dangerous. When the “power” gets placed on the “tools” and themselves.

Most tarot readers I have meet treat their decks with the certain care to insure that the “tools” energy is not corrupted. Additionally, the readers I know or have meet keep their decks in wooden boxes or pouches to prevent any type of energy lose between themselves and their “tool”.

I think there’s a tendency on this forum for legitimate concern about non-doctrinal practices to cross over into full-blown obsession about occult-related items becoming “portals for evil” or somesuch nonsense. I don’t think many of you appreciate the irony in the fact that concern about magick and the occult has led you into some very magickal thinking.

My analogy of Tarot cards being an “unnecessary doorway for evil to enter our home” is exactly that - an analogy. Similar to someone making the analogy that “pot is a gateway drug,” that may lead its users to the more dangerous forms of illegal drugs. I feel that we are to avoid the temptations to sin, and using Tarot cards could indeed cause us the break the first Commandment of God. Thus, causing the deceiver to enter our home.

At some point, it really becomes a form of fetishism and an almost Vodou-like belief in the power of cursed objects. Some of you attribute more power to everyday occult-themed bricabrac than you do the sacrifice of your own savior. There is a level of concern about such matters which is grounded in your doctrines. In most of what I see in the “spiritual warfare” corners of this forum, that concern has flowered into obsession and some very occult-like thinking. Whether you realize it or not, many of you are effectively indulging in witchcraft to safe yourself from witchcraft.

This would be your Straw Man.

This focus on physical objects as repositories or conduits of evil as an external energy source is tempting because it suggests that evil is a form of spellcraft that can be conquered by another form of spellcraft (incanting the right prayers, burning, burying , salting the artifacts, etc.) It excuses you from the hard work of confronting evil where it really takes root: in your own minds and hearts.

Do you deny that Tarot cards are used for divination? Or that the users attribute a “external energy “ to said cards? Evil comes in many forms - whether it is our hearts and minds, or in a simple “playing card” the source of this evil is the same. As a Catholic, I am asked to avoid the occasion to mortally sin and I will admit that Tarot cards causing a person to mortal sin is indeed a “slippery slope” the fact remains that are indeed an analogical “doorway for evil”. So I have chosen to avoid them as such - now if I can only convince my beautiful wife…

 

[kenofken]

I have yet to meet anyone who only collects Tarot Cards for their artwork, I would assume that these collectors are the minority. I agree that these cards are just that - cards. Tools essentially, and like yourself, I don’t give these “tools” the any type of power in and of themselves. Although, they are indeed ”tools” that people start to place power on, and start to believe they receive a power from said “tools”. People start to believe that they (the tools) are the source of this power and this is when it becomes dangerous. When the “power” gets placed on the “tools” and themselves.

Most tarot readers I have meet treat their decks with the certain care to insure that the “tools” energy is not corrupted. Additionally, the readers I know or have meet keep their decks in wooden boxes or pouches to prevent any type of energy lose between themselves and their “tool”.

**People who know what they’re doing with Tarot understand it’s not a matter of invoking external powers as much as it is cultivating a natural ability to translate the images of the unconscious mind which has a wider field of perception to the flow of spacetime around us. Diviners aren’t tapping into anything that YOU don’t use everyday, even if you don’t realize it. The difference is that they do it with intent and you and most people don’t, or avoid it and brush off the occasional premonition as a fluke.
**

My analogy of Tarot cards being an “unnecessary doorway for evil to enter our home” is exactly that - an analogy. Similar to someone making the analogy that “pot is a gateway drug,” that may lead its users to the more dangerous forms of illegal drugs. I feel that we are to avoid the temptations to sin, and using Tarot cards could indeed cause us the break the first Commandment of God. Thus, causing the deceiver to enter our home.

Now that’s actually a legitimate degree of concern for a Catholic relative to divination etc. Alternate spiritual practices are believed in your tradition to distract from your true devotion and perhaps to inadvertently involve yourself with unwholesome forces.

This would be your Straw Man.

**No, brother. This would be a lifetime of knowledge and experience of Catholicism AND magickal practice and of many of the forms of syncretism between the two. I’m not saying your concern crosses this line, but I know what magickal reasoning and practice looks like and much of the spiritual warfare crowd on here is hip deep in it whether they’re willing to admit it or not. **

Do you deny that Tarot cards are used for divination? Or that the users attribute a “external energy “ to said cards? Evil comes in many forms - whether it is our hearts and minds, or in a simple “playing card” the source of this evil is the same. As a Catholic, I am asked to avoid the occasion to mortally sin and I will admit that Tarot cards causing a person to mortal sin is indeed a “slippery slope” the fact remains that are indeed an analogical “doorway for evil”. So I have chosen to avoid them as such - now if I can only convince my beautiful wife…

**You never really said what context she’s using them in or her degree of involvement with the cards and to what extent they’re serving as a substitute or distraction from her religion. Nevertheless, I will speculate that if you were able to take a God’s-eye inventory of your lives, that deck would rank WAY down on list of real or potential sources of sin. What’ I’m saying is if you were able to do a statistical study of people’s “records” of mortal sin and patterns of mortal sin that undo people according to the Catholic tradition, you’d find Tarot listed fairly low, if at all in the “causes of mortality.”

You’d find much more pedestrian and unsexy stuff of the variety Jesus preached about everyday. The way we condition ourselves to pull down the sun visor and pretend not to see the wretch begging at the intersection on the way to work. The fact that we have money to spend on the latest i-gadget this year but not quite enough for the charities we once supported. The ways we sometimes destroy other people in a calculated way to get that new promotion and justify it by saying it makes us good “family men.” The ways we let our own insecurities lead us to abuse our loved ones. The adulterous affairs we carry on even as we scrupulously follow most doctrine and puts lots of money into the collection basket every Sunday. **

 

[soma]

Any things that connect to the spirit are good. Use every tool to live in the world, know yourself, know God and deepen your relationships.

 

[Hastrman]

**This would be a lifetime of knowledge and experience of Catholicism AND magickal practice and of many of the forms of syncretism between the two. I’m not saying your concern crosses this line, but I know what magickal reasoning and practice looks like and much of the spiritual warfare crowd on here is hip deep in it whether they’re willing to admit it or not. **

I incline to say that anyone who says “magickal” is a poseur, but then, where I come from (at the base of a sacred mountain inhabited by two entire pantheons), there’s an entire clan who can make it rain and pretty much everyone has stories about encounters with shapeshifting, sometimes-invisible witches, so maybe I’m just, you know, jaded.

Any pursuit of a “medicine” (as it’s called where I live) without strict adherence to the laws imposed by the gods, is not only dangerous, it’s bound to become evil. Shall I blow your mind, and put it in Navajo terms? All right.

The instanding-ones of a person will be inexorably bound to the anti-sunwise holy-wind if those people are not raised according to a good law; the process will only be hastened by the pursuit of medicine, as its holy power will call ghosts. “Instanding ones” is the Navajo concept of free will, bizarrely similar to certain pre-Socratic Greek concepts of personal tutelaries. “Anti-sunwise” refers to walking around a hooghan in the direction opposite that in which the sun goes—rather than starting with east and ending with north, starting at north and ending at east. Which is the direction a skinwalker walks around it, when laying a corpse-poison curse on it. “Holy wind” is the Navajo concept of…something between life, soul, and existence; they’re something like emanationist pantheists. “Ghosts” are never good, in Navajo thought; they’re considered to be the witches of the world of the dead.

Frankly all “neopagan” practices are, to one who’s seen the real deal, so much watered-down Hermeticism combined with pop psychology and, not to put too fine a point on it, Christian ethics: or how many people have you killed merely for being in the same clan as someone who’s wronged you? That, of course, being the only way (in most real pagan religions) to satisfy the unquiet spirits of wrathful ancestors, who are driven into their vengeful form whenever their descendants are harmed.