Tartarus, Gehenna and Hell

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Hi…I’m brand new here and not sure if this is the right place for this, but I’m going to give it a shot just the same.

Alright, it’s my understanding that, since the resurrection, the only souls left in Hell are the damned and that, after death, all saved souls go to Heaven. I am confused on a couple of points though and hope that someone here might be able to clear them up for me? Are Tartarus and Gehenna one and the same? And is Gehenna the same thing as Hell?

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me! 🙂
 
Raymond_III said:
Hi…I’m brand new here and not sure if this is the right place for this, but I’m going to give it a shot just the same.

Alright, it’s my understanding that, since the resurrection, the only souls left in Hell are the damned and that, after death, all saved souls go to Heaven. I am confused on a couple of points though and hope that someone here might be able to clear them up for me? Are Tartarus and Gehenna one and the same? And is Gehenna the same thing as Hell?

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me! 🙂
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I believe that Gehenna and Hades have both been translated as “hell” in most English translations. I think Tartarus might be translated as hell as well. I am a bit confused about it to be honest.
 
Hehehe…I’m pretty confused about the whole thing, too…thanks very much for attempting to help me out though! 😃
 
Raymond_III said:
Hehehe…I’m pretty confused about the whole thing, too…thanks very much for attempting to help me out though! 😃
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I do know that Gehenna was an actual place that was basically a garbage dump. Somehow this evolved into a horrible place spiritually as well. Hades is the Greek underworld. I’m not sure that every time one of these places was mentioned it meant “hell.” I really don’t know. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it.
 
Okay…well, thanks again. I guess that I should clarify that by Gehenna I do mean the “Lake of Fire.”

During my short time reading through threads on similar subjects, it seems that some people feel that Hell and the Lake of Fire are one and the same. The only mention I’ve seen of Tartarus opined that it, too, is identical to Hell. I’m not sure if those are just individual opinions or the ‘official’ stance, though.

Anyway, I do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on the matter.
 
A further question that I have, somewhat related to the others, is: What is the nature of the ‘Second Death’? I mean, what does it mean? Is it something beyond/besides being thrown into Hell?
 
Let’s see…
  1. Hell can have a couple of meanings:
    (a) Also referred to as hades, sheol and **Limbo of the Fathers **(Patri Limbus) it was thought of as a shadowy place of the dead. The righteous (like Lazarus in the parable we will hear this Sunday) would be in one area awaiting the coming of Christ and the opening of heaven (the “bosom of Abraham” which would cease to exist at that point), and the wicked (like the Rich Man in the same parable) would be in a separate part. This last area, in Greek thinking, was what was called Tartarus, which basically means “the deepest pit.”
(b) The place of the damned prepared for the devil and his angels. All of the wicked who were in Tartarus presumably ended up here.
  1. Gehenna was, as was mentioned, originally a burning trash heap on the outskirts of Jerusalem. Before that, it was a place where, in more ancient times, human sacrifice took place (today it is a city park!). In Jesus’ time it was proverbial to equate it with horror, uncleaness and eternal damnation.
 
Thanks very much for the reply, Fidelis!

Okay, let me see if I have this straight then. Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus are all one ‘place’ and both the ‘bosom of Abraham’ and Tartarus were, at one point, subdivisions of it? There is a second place, the ‘place of the damned,’ to which all of the current detainees of Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus will be relocated following the General Judgment? This second ‘place’ is NOT Gehenna? So, I guess that I have only two more questions for you then: A) What was the Greek/Hebrew name for the ‘place of the damned’? and B) Is the equation of Gehenna with the ‘Lake of Fire’ even a Catholic notion? Or is it, specifically, an interpretation by non-Catholics?

Again…thanks a bunch…I really do appreciate your insights. 🙂
 
Raymond_III said:
Thanks very much for the reply, Fidelis!

Okay, let me see if I have this straight then. Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus are all one ‘place’ and both the ‘bosom of Abraham’ and Tartarus were, at one point, subdivisions of it?
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Correct.
There is a second place, the ‘place of the damned,’ to which all of the current detainees of Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus will be relocated following the General Judgment?
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More accurately, this place of the damned (including Tartarus) is where the former occupants of the evil part of Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus now reside–and will reside after the General Judgement. It is unclear whether this place became the hell of the damned, or was supplanted by it.
This second ‘place’ is NOT Gehenna?
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Gehenna was a literal place near Jerusalem, but the name was used as a general term for a place of horror and punishment. By extension, it could refer to the wicked part of Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus (including Tartarus) and hell of the damned.
So, I guess that I have only two more questions for you then: A) What was the Greek/Hebrew name for the ‘place of the damned’?
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–Greek: Tartarus
–Hebrew: I haven’t seen anything that indicates the ancient Hebrews had the same concept of “eternal damnation” as in later Christian thought, but Sheol is where everyone went, divided up into good and evil as I said before.
B) Is the equation of Gehenna with the ‘Lake of Fire’ even a Catholic notion? Or is it, specifically, an interpretation by non-Catholics?
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No, it is a legitimate opinion for all Christians. As I mentioned above, it was used in Jesus time as a general term for a place of horror and punishment. By extension, it could refer to the wicked part of Hades/Sheol/Patri Limbus (including Tartarus) and hell of the damned.This would include the “Lake of Fire” usually equated with the hell of the damned.
 
Excellent…I think that you just answered my question! Thank you!😃
 
The Three Words for Hell

Gehenna: The Garbage Dump

Gehenna (translated as Hell) was the place outside of the old city of Jerusalem called the Valley of Hinnon where waste was dumped; not only trash and garbage were disposed of there, but also corpses of humans and animals were burnt in the dump. In translating the Bible, the word Gehenna has changed from the meaning of a garbage dump to that of Hell: a place of eternal torment where the souls of unbelievers go.

The word Gehenna, “Hell” occurs twelve times in the New Testament. If each time the word Gehenna is used it is replaced by “Garbage dump”, a whole different understanding of what is being said comes into view.

What I see being said in Matthew 5, is the comparison of one part of the fleshly body being corrupted, to that of the whole of the body being corrupted; this can be likened to an infection that if not taken care of will spread to the whole body. Next, Jesus brings the idea of God into the picture as He who is able to destroy both the soul and the fleshly body in Gehenna. The Soul is our conscience selves, that which we shape and form in this life by our actions. I call it Soul Shaping. It is what we take from this life into eternity….if all our actions in this life are for naught and in jeopardy of being burned up in the Garbage Dump, then our lives will have been lived in vain. Much like the works of wood, hay and stubble that will be tried in the fire, spoken of by the Apostle Paul (1Cor.3:12-13 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.).

Hades: The Grave

The word Hades has been translated eleven times as Hell implying that it is a place of eternal torment. Instead of a place of eternal torment, ***Hades is the Grave ***which is death; the place where dead bodies go. In the book of Acts where it states that when Jesus died His Soul was not left in the grave and neither did his flesh see corruption, it is clearly speaking of Hell as the “Grave”, that is to say the place where the fleshly body goes after death. The soul on the other hand is the part of us that is shaped by the actions we do in this life, whereas our spirits can be thought of as the spark of life that God breathes into each one of us, or the light that touches each soul that enters into this world (John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.).

Bodies are given us at conception without any choice on our part, whereas our souls can be shaped and formed by our actions giving purpose to our lives….this is what I believe our time on this planet is all about.

**Tartarus: **

Tartarus is used only one time in the Bible as the place where the Angels who sinned are chained until judgment. The Greek philosopher, Plato wrote that souls were judged after death and those who received punishments were sent to Tartarus.
 
FreeButterfly said:
Hi Copland,

I went to your site and read your explanations, but since I am not Catholic I have a question.

Where in the Bible does it speak of “Purgatory”? The two verse you quoted do not mention “Purgatory”.

Thank you,
FreeButterfly
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Hello Free Butterfly, just as the Bible does not mention the word ‘Trinity’, it does teach about the Trinity. Much like Purgatory, the word is not there but it does teach it. After the Bible was written Christians have developed a vocabulary in order to clarify and define specific doctrines that are clearly in the Bible.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
Hello Free Butterfly, just as the Bible does not mention the word ‘Trinity’, it does teach about the Trinity. Much like Purgatory, the word is not there but it does teach it. After the Bible was written Christians have developed a vocabulary in order to clarify and define specific doctrines that are clearly in the Bible.
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Thank you, :thankyou: I do understand about teachings such as the “Trinity”, because it is clearly defined in many places as being - Father - Son - and Holy Spirit -…but that is not the case with “Purgatory”. The two verses you quoted in your website as implying a place such as Purgatory, I do not see as being spoken of at all.

Sorry if I’m being difficult, but I need to be able to see things clearly for myself in order to believe in them…:hmmm:

Blessings,
FreeButterfly
 
FreeButterfly said:
Thank you, :thankyou: I do understand about teachings such as the “Trinity”, because it is clearly defined in many places as being - Father - Son - and Holy Spirit -…but that is not the case with “Purgatory”. The two verses you quoted in your website as implying a place such as Purgatory, I do not see as being spoken of at all.

Sorry if I’m being difficult, but I need to be able to see things clearly for myself in order to believe in them…:hmmm:

Blessings,
FreeButterfly
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No your not being difficult at all, totally understandable. Both those passages have substance within them that make up details that are part of what the Church teaches about Purgatory. What many non-catholics assume Catholics believe about purgatory is usually different than what the Church actually teaches, so your presuppositions may be what is keeping you from seeing Purgatory in those 2 passages. In the Corinthians passage you see how a person is saved but his bad works are burnt. That is exactly what Purgatory is for, to remove the effects of venial sin on the soul that a person carries to the other side of the grave. The Maccabees passage demonstrates that a person living can help the state of a soul in the afterlife who is not in Heaven. Since the soul in Hades has no chance of ever getting into Heaven, it would be those who is in a non-permanant place, which would be Purgatory.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
No your not being difficult at all, totally understandable. Both those passages have substance within them that make up details that are part of what the Church teaches about Purgatory. What many non-catholics assume Catholics believe about purgatory is usually different than what the Church actually teaches, so your presuppositions may be what is keeping you from seeing Purgatory in those 2 passages. In the Corinthians passage you see how a person is saved but his bad works are burnt. That is exactly what Purgatory is for, to remove the effects of venial sin on the soul that a person carries to the other side of the grave. The Maccabees passage demonstrates that a person living can help the state of a soul in the afterlife who is not in Heaven. Since the soul in Hades has no chance of ever getting into Heaven, it would be those who is in a non-permanant place, which would be Purgatory.
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Hi Copland,

More questions…😛

You mentioned that a living person can in some way help the state of a soul in Puragtory…if that be the case what determines a venial sin? And why can a living person help someone in Puragatory and not in Hades?

Thanks for your help, 👍
Freebutterfly
 
FreeButterfly said:
Hi Copland,

More questions…😛

You mentioned that a living person can in some way help the state of a soul in Puragtory…if that be the case what determines a venial sin? And why can a living person help someone in Puragatory and not in Hades?

Thanks for your help, 👍
Freebutterfly
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Great questions!

The Church teaches that there are sins that can send you to Hell which are called mortal sins, and sins that don’t send you to Hell but do bring imperfection to the soul which are called venial sins. Mortal sins are sins such as murder, stealing, adultry, etc., offenses that you find in the 10 commandments and other places in the Bible such as 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 where Paul gives a list of mortal sins and then says those who do those things will not inherit the kingdom of God. When a baptized or unbaptized person dies without repenting of their mortal sins then they do not go to Heaven. When a baptized person dies who has not dealt with their venial sins then they have that stain on their souls that will be dealt with in Purgatory so they can enter Heaven completely pure, for ‘There shall not enter into it (Heaven) any thing defiled’ (Rev 21:27).

The reason why someone in Hades cannot be helped is because their judgment is final and irreversable. But fortunately for those in Purgatory God permits us to be able to interceed for them!

But for non-catholics its hard to conceive all this when you have been instructed in another way concerning salvation. When I was a Baptist I believed that when a person got ‘saved’ then they were completely cleansed of their past present and future sins. But as I studied the belief of the Early Church I realized that was never believed. But what has always been believed is that a person is completely cleansed of their sins at Baptism, and if they were to die after Baptism without sinning then they would go straight to Heaven. But when a person sins after Baptism they then need to deal with those sins, and that is why Christ gave us confession so we can deal with those sins after Baptism.
 
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