Tattoos and Piercings

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deb1 said:
As was said before, Leviticus is against getting the Pagan practice of getting marks as a means to worship your dead relatives. As long as Karin is not worshipping her ancestors, she should be all right.
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Nope none of our tattoos are for the worship of our ancestors.
As I said our priest has seen all of our tats and the reasons for getting them and he does not think that we are sinning.
 
Karin said:
Not at all…but i see you and I will not agree on that point.
Glad that my priest (who is very orthodox) does not agree with you either;)
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Karin:

I hope that Neo Canan’s response doesn’t make it harder for you you to hear this. This is teaching most Catholic priests, and many Protestant Ministers, for that matter, don’t get in Seminary, so it wouldn’t surprise me that your Pastor wouldn’t object.

The quote comes from the Torah, the first 5 Books of the Bible, and it prohibits placing any mark on one’s body that might proclaim that your body belongs to someone besides God, and since any Tattoo can potentially do that, it’s a general prohibition. You see, both Christians and Jews believe and teach that “our” bodies really aren’t ours. They’re really on loan from God

You’ll see the thinking about "Marks of “Ownership” in Revelation and whose are acceptable and whose aren’t:

*Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.
Rev. 13:16-18 RSV*

Contrast that with the mark given at Baptism:

*Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth.

These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb. On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
Rev. 14:1-5 NAB*

*Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its street. On either side of the river grew the tree of life that produces fruit twelve times a year, once each month; the leaves of the trees serve as medicine for the nations.

Nothing accursed will be found there anymore. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will look upon his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Rev. 21:1-4 NAB*

As far as Scripture and the Early Church Fathers were concerned, the only marks that should be on us are the Seal of Baptism and whatever scars we get from our lives. Tattoos are claims that our bodies are ours and not God’s, and are attempts to take control of them from Him.

That’s why Orthodox Jews still don’t Tattoo their bodies.

The Tattoo isn’t just artwork or ornamentation - It can also end up telling God that it really isn’t His body.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
Traditional_Ang said:
Karin:

I hope that Neo Canan’s response doesn’t make it harder for you you to hear this. This is teaching most Catholic priests, and many Protestant Ministers, for that matter, don’t get in Seminary, so it wouldn’t surprise me that your Pastor wouldn’t object.

The quote comes from the Torah, the first 5 Books of the Bible, and it prohibits placing any mark on one’s body that might proclaim that your body belongs to someone besides God, and since any Tattoo can potentially do that, it’s a general prohibition. You see, both Christians and Jews believe and teach that “our” bodies really aren’t ours. They’re really on loan from God

You’ll see the thinking about "Marks of “Ownership” in Revelation and whose are acceptable and whose aren’t:

*Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. *

*This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six. *
Rev. 13:16-18 RSV

Contrast that with the mark given at Baptism:

Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth.

These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb. On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
Rev. 14:1-5 NAB

Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its street. On either side of the river grew the tree of life that produces fruit twelve times a year, once each month; the leaves of the trees serve as medicine for the nations.

Nothing accursed will be found there anymore. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will look upon his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Rev. 21:1-4 NAB

As far as Scripture and the Early Church Fathers were concerned, the only marks that should be on us are the Seal of Baptism and whatever scars we get from our lives. Tattoos are claims that our bodies are ours and not God’s, and are attempts to take control of them from Him.

That’s why Orthodox Jews still don’t Tattoo their bodies.

The Tattoo isn’t just artwork or ornamentation - It can also end up telling God that it really isn’t His body.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
Click to expand...
Michael-
Thank you for the long explanation…but none of our tattoos say or reflect that our bodies belong to anybody else but God.😃
 
cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=233

**Issue: **What is the teaching of the Church on tattoos and body piercing?
**Response: **Tattoos and acts of body piercing are not intrinsically evil. The Church offers principles by which Catholics can discern whether it is sinful to be tattooed or have one’s body pierced in particular situations.
****Discussion: ****

Charity and Respect for the Souls of Others
Catholics must also consider the common good when they decide whether to be tattooed or have their bodies pierced. In certain instances—for example, in indigenous cultures in which tattooing is a rite of passage to adulthood—the common good practically demands that a person be tattooed.1 In the United States and other Western countries, however, considerations of the common good generally lead one to pause before being tattooed or having one’s body pierced.
The question of whether an act of tattooing or body piercing hinders a Catholic’s evangelizing mission leads to the broader question of whether such an act harms the souls of others. Tattoos whose words and images celebrate the demonic, are unchaste, or otherwise offend against charity are immoral.
Even if a tattoo’s words and images are not uncharitable in themselves, the act of obtaining a tattoo can be rendered immoral if done so with an evil intention—for example, in order to spite one’s parents or society (cf. Catechism, no. 1752).
Persons considering body piercing should also be aware of the implicit messages that the particular act of piercing conveys in a particular time and place. Some acts of body piercing can imply approval for the immoral homosexual lifestyle. Other acts of body piercing can imply active participation in, or a desire to participate in, other unchaste acts. In such cases, the acts of body piercing are immoral because they appear to manifest an approval of sin and thus scandalize others (cf. Catechism, no. 1868, 2284).Questions to Consider
Catholics who are considering getting tattoos or having their bodies pierced may want to reflect on the following questions:
· Does this particular act of tattooing or body piercing involve a risk to my health?
· Would this act mutilate me—that is, would it inhibit the proper functioning of my skin or another organ of my body?
· Is the explicit message of my tattoo compatible with love of God and neighbor?
· Is the implicit message of my tattoo compatible with love of God and neighbor? Does it convey an implicitly unchaste message?
· Why do I want to get a tattoo or have my body pierced?
· If I am under the authority of my parents, would this act be an act of disobedience that would violate the Fourth Commandment?
· Would this particular act needlessly offend my family, friends, neighbors, and colleagues, and thus hinder my ability to lead others to Christ and His Church?
· Can the expense involved be justified in light of the needs of my family, the Church, and the poor?
In most cultural contexts in the United States, a woman’s decision to have her ears pierced is compatible with respect for health and bodily integrity, charity, and respect for the souls of others. Other acts of piercing and tattooing are more open to question. The criteria above can help one come to a prayerful and prudent decision in one’s particular circumstances.
 
Traditional_Ang said:
Karin:

I hope that Neo Canan’s response doesn’t make it harder for you you to hear this. This is teaching most Catholic priests, and many Protestant Ministers, for that matter, don’t get in Seminary, so it wouldn’t surprise me that your Pastor wouldn’t object.

The quote comes from the Torah, the first 5 Books of the Bible, and it prohibits placing any mark on one’s body that might proclaim that your body belongs to someone besides God, and since any Tattoo can potentially do that, it’s a general prohibition. You see, both Christians and Jews believe and teach that “our” bodies really aren’t ours. They’re really on loan from God

You’ll see the thinking about "Marks of “Ownership” in Revelation and whose are acceptable and whose aren’t:

*Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. *

*This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six. *
Rev. 13:16-18 RSV

Contrast that with the mark given at Baptism:

Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth.

These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb. On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
Rev. 14:1-5 NAB

Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its street. On either side of the river grew the tree of life that produces fruit twelve times a year, once each month; the leaves of the trees serve as medicine for the nations.

Nothing accursed will be found there anymore. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will look upon his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Rev. 21:1-4 NAB

As far as Scripture and the Early Church Fathers were concerned, the only marks that should be on us are the Seal of Baptism and whatever scars we get from our lives. Tattoos are claims that our bodies are ours and not God’s, and are attempts to take control of them from Him.

That’s why Orthodox Jews still don’t Tattoo their bodies.

The Tattoo isn’t just artwork or ornamentation - It can also end up telling God that it really isn’t His body.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
Click to expand...
Some Protestant authors have argued that the Bible forbids tattoos and body piercing. They typically cite the following verse: “You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord” (Lev. 19:28).
References to this verse are not present in important magisterial documents and in the principal writings of the Fathers of the Church. It is the consensus of Catholic biblical commentators that this prohibition is not part of the unchanging moral law, but part of the ritual law specific to the Old Testament. Many commentators believe that this prohibition was intended to separate Israel from its Canaanite neighbors; some believe that the cuttings in the flesh and tattoo marks to which the verse refers were part of idolatrous Canaanite worship.
The context of the verse favors this interpretation. The preceding verse reads, “You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard” (Lev. 19:27)—this prohibition is certainly not applied to members of the Church.
The Church does not teach that Sacred Scripture forbids tattooing and body piercing, but the Church does offer principles by which to discern whether, in particular situations, it is sinful to be tattooed or have one’s body pierced
cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=233
 
Karin,

I agree with the principles you posted, even though I apply them to reach a different conclusion.

I have no problem with the argument that the OT prohibition does not directly apply to modern Christians - but that does not automatically mean that we should violate this previous standard. If divine wisdom determined that that practice was unwise for the ancients, I would be reluctant to participate in it without a good reason–more than mere whim or aesthetics. (I don’t spend much time admiring my own skin anyway, and I doubt anyone else does so either.)

As you posted, “Would this particular act needlessly offend my family, friends, neighbors, and colleagues, and thus hinder my ability to lead others to Christ and His Church?” In many cases, I think that the answer to this question would be yes in contemporary American culture. At any rate, I urge that any markings you or others have are concealed in the ordinary course of the day while conducting business, attending mass, etc. If you and your spouse enjoy them in privacy that is no concern of mine.
 
Sam88 said:
As you posted, “Would this particular act needlessly offend my family, friends, neighbors, and colleagues, and thus hinder my ability to lead others to Christ and His Church?” In many cases, I think that the answer to this question would be yes in contemporary American culture. At any rate, I urge that any markings you or others have are concealed in the ordinary course of the day while conducting business, attending mass, etc. If you and your spouse enjoy them in privacy that is no concern of mine.
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Hmm…that is interesting.
Most of my tats are hidden by clothing but a few you can see…and never have I had issues with anybody at Church regarding them nor with the Bishop this past summer who Confirmed my eldest son.
 
Karin said:
Some Protestant authors have argued that the Bible forbids tattoos and body piercing. They typically cite the following verse: “You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord” (Lev. 19:28).
Click to expand...
When I first read this thread, I told myself that I *would not *respond simply because the topic of Tattooing has been beat to death. That, and I’m an avid tattoo collector with some very strong opinions on the issue 🙂

Anyways, I just want to add a rhetorical question of sorts. Protestants and other Christian sects recite the OT verses ad nauseam. Do they forget that when Christ came, he abolished the old laws? :hmmm:

Just my two cents

~Jessica
 
If the Church considered this an important moral question they would have come out and said something and there wouldn’t be any question of the teaching on this. Since they haven’t we should understand that it’s personal preference and cultural. If you want a certain job or girlfriend or boyfriend I think it’d be wise to be moderate in tatoos and body piercing.
 
As far as degrading the temple of God I don’t think any of us take perfect care of our bodies. We eat unhealthy food and other disrespectful things. Just realize that if you decide to look freaky, don’t complain and feel insulted about it when people stare.
 
JessicaCeleste said:
When I first read this thread, I told myself that I *would not *respond simply because the topic of Tattooing has been beat to death. That, and I’m an avid tattoo collector with some very strong opinions on the issue 🙂

Anyways, I just want to add a rhetorical question of sorts. Protestants and other Christian sects recite the OT verses ad nauseam. Do they forget that when Christ came, he abolished the old laws? :hmmm:

Just my two cents

~Jessica
Click to expand...
Jessica-
I too have a collection of tattoos as does my dh…also it
helps if you read the whole post and not just part of it…
the last part of my post states…
*The Church does not teach that Sacred Scripture forbids tattooing and body piercing, but the Church does offer principles by which to discern whether, in particular situations, it is sinful to be tattooed or have one’s body pierced *
 
Karin said:
Jessica-
I too have a collection of tattoos as does my dh…also it
helps if you read the whole post and not just part of it…
the last part of my post states…
The Church does not teach that Sacred Scripture forbids tattooing and body piercing, but the Church does offer principles by which to discern whether, in particular situations, it is sinful to be tattooed or have one’s body pierced
Click to expand...
Hi Karin - It also helps if you read my entire post as well. I stated that ***Protestants and other Christian Sects are quoting scripture ad nauseam ***- I was not referring to the Catholic Church. I know what our Church teaches in regard to body modifications.

I’m sorry that you took this as a personal attack, that was not the way it was intended. I’ve been following the thread from the start, and agree with you on many points. No need for snarkiness 😉
 
JessicaCeleste said:
Hi Karin - It also helps if you read my entire post as well. I stated that ***Protestants and other Christian Sects are quoting scripture ad nauseam ***- I was not referring to the Catholic Church. I know what our Church teaches in regard to body modifications.

I’m sorry that you took this as a personal attack, that was not the way it was intended. I’ve been following the thread from the start, and agree with you on many points. No need for snarkiness 😉
Click to expand...
Snarkiness??? That is one word I am not familiar with.

Jessica-
The way you quoted my post I thought that you thought I agreed with the comment/statment…I see now that is not the case…
 
Karin said:
Goodie:D :rolleyes:
I have my ears triple pierced…but those are just on my ear lobes…not counting other parts
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I want mine triple pierced but I have really tiny earlobes and there isn’t any more room, lol. My aunt, who passed away in 1984 at age 54, had hers either triple or quadruple pierced. 👍
 
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