Taxing the Church

[CivisRomanusSum]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

Thank you

 

[JRKH]

I will not say whether they “Should be” or not since I do not know all the intricacies of the law in these regards.

I will say that the Church, has put herself in something of a difficult situation by accepting tax dollars in the form of monies for education, and hospitals etc. It has given the government a way to exercise control over Catholic institutions by the threat of withdrawing financial support.

In similar manner, the government has used the threat of “taxation” as a control over what and where and how members of the Church, may express their “Free Speech” rights.

That said, it seems that “The Church” would be ahead of the game spiritually if it were to reject any sort of government assistance - whether that be through tax breaks or by accepting tax dollars.

I’m sure my views will not be shared by many…but that is just how I feel.

Peace
James

 

[DaveBj]

I’m not going to express an opinion one way or the other at this point. However, I would like to point out that by accepting tax exempt status, religious institutions also accept a muzzle when it comes to political activity (I speak of conditions in the U.S.; other nations’ mileage may vary). If they were taxed, they coud be as pollitically active as they wanted to be, and their opponents couldn’t complain about any violation of church and state.

 

[Nelka]

No.

I think it’s disgusting that our churches have to pay council tax whilst the prisoners pay nothing.

 

[DaveBj]

No.

I think it’s disgusting that our churches have to pay council tax whilst the prisoners pay nothing.

Bear in mind that we Yanks don’t have a clue what you’re talking about ('xcept me; we lived in Cheltenham for 4 years).

 

[Dale_M]

Bear in mind that we Yanks don’t have a clue what you’re talking about ('xcept me; we lived in Cheltenham for 4 years).

Ah, but even Yanks have access to Wikipedia (and other websites)

Council Tax is the system of local taxation used in England,[1] Scotland[2] and Wales[3] to part fund the services provided by local government in each country. (In Northern Ireland, the form of local taxation is rates.) It was introduced in 1993 by the Local Government Finance Act 1992, as a successor to the unpopular Community Charge. The basis for the tax is residential property, with discounts for single people.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Tax

Of course, I might have just scratched my head and then shrugged my shoulders if you hadn’t challenged us.

That said, I don’t think the Catholic Church would choose to be taxed. The expense would greatly restrict its mission.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

Thank you

Should the Catholic Church be taxed?

Well, consider why governments allow tax deductions for contributions to charities.

It is because the financial burden to satisfy the cause of the charity, by society, would be heavier to society than the financial loss of fewer taxes from the contributor.

Likewise, the government does not tax the charity, itself, including the charitable work of churches.

This tax posture is good for charity, church, govenment, and society.

This, of course, does not apply and should not apply for the commercial profit-driven incentives of church activity.

The Catholic Church is involved in both activities: charitable and commercial.

As are other Christian denominations.

 

[manualman]

The fact that this question is asked at all, much less in christian circles is evidence of the deterioration of our civilization. For almost all of the existance of our country, Americans have considered it a ‘no brainer’ to exempt religious organizations for providing the moral character formation, charity outreach, hospitals, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, adoption services that the government would be hard pressed to do on 5 times the amount that could be squeezed out of them in the form of taxes.

Case in point, Catholic Charities of IL adoption services was recently forced out of providing State adoption administration because they refuse to place kids in same sex couple homes. The state previously contracted with Catholic Charities because they could do these services for less than any other agency and for less than 1/5 of the per child cost of the in-house state social service agencies. No matter, they refused to bow down to the Emperor, so must be thrown to the lions.

The fact is that the government could never afford to do what the churches do for society. If you tax them (even just real estate taxes), most will fold or go underground into house churches, the revenue lost anyways and the taxpayer will be the chumps paying for the social services needed until the Barbarians tear down the gates (closer than most think).

 

[promethius]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

My question would be: what leads you to believe that at any point in the discussion to exempt churches from taxes, that “churches do not have a say in society and/or public policy” was a qualification considered?

The idea that churches are only religiously exempt from taxation is because they don’t comment on public life is RIDICULOUS, an invention of militant atheists to marginalize the participation of the church in the world (and thus to curtail its influence and relevance… thus to discredit it as a moral agent). Churches are not taxed because of a constitutional amendment which states that regarding religion no law shall be made (including no tax law)

 

[puzzleannie]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

Thank you

no it is not an interest group that wants a political say in society and public policy. The Catholic Church wants its members to adhere to Catholic teaching in all their political choices and actions and requires that they do so under pain of sin. The Church makes no such demand on any non-Catholic. The Church does expect politicians and public officials to abide by the Constitution, which guarantees the right to life as the foundation of all other rights, and to its bill of rights which protects free exercise of religion.

What they do with the tax laws is up to them, but as they stand now the Church should be held to the same standard as all other non-profit groups, including those who espouse positions inimical to society, to the constitution, to the family, and to religion.

Personally I would like to see all tax exemptions for all churches and non-profits go away, because they hamper those institutions from free speech as the laws are written now, which makes those laws unconstitutional. In my opinion.

 

[manualman]

Personally I would like to see all tax exemptions for all churches and non-profits go away, because they hamper those institutions from free speech as the laws are written now, which makes those laws unconstitutional. In my opinion.

Have you really done the homework on that opinion? In my area, churches are typically required to be placed in commercially zoned land. Given the parking requirements, stormwater detention pond requirement, etc my parish would be socked with in the magnitude of $300,000 a year in property taxes alone in your proposal.

I’m not aware of a single parish that could survive such an idea. Go to a parish finance council meeting sometime. You’ll be surprised at what things cost already and how close to the wall your parish already is.

 

[puzzleannie]

Have you really done the homework on that opinion? In my area, churches are typically required to be placed in commercially zoned land. Given the parking requirements, stormwater detention pond requirement, etc my parish would be socked with in the magnitude of $300,000 a year in property taxes alone in your proposal.

I’m not aware of a single parish that could survive such an idea. Go to a parish finance council meeting sometime. You’ll be surprised at what things cost already and how close to the wall your parish already is.

I have been intimately involved with parish and diocesan financial issues for many years and take your point well in advisement, and yes a change in the law would require a massive rethinking and rework of how the Church stewards its material resources. My point is that, and this is only personal opinion, after such a shake up the Church would be stronger and better off.

 

[manualman]

How can a church that no longer has a place to gather and celebrate the mass, educate the young, provide a visible and knowable location to receive Reconciliation be stronger? I think you’re WAY off.

There just isn’t a question involved. My parish and most others would be foreclosed upon in about a year under your proposal.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

Thank you

It shouldn’t lose its tax exemption. It is not a commercial entity engaging in an activity to make a profit. It is like minded believers contributing their money to further the Churches mission.

There are a wide range of organizations that are exempt from tax–from your local country club, Lions and Rotary clubs, all the local business organizations and societies, as well as all your various public interest groups and Section 527 Political Organizations that are exempt and are organized specifically to advocate regarding public policy. If you want to take away the Churches exemption you would need to also strip all of these other organizations of there exempt status.

Maybe the question you should have asked was should the Church be considered a charitable organization to which your contributions are tax deductible as a charitable contribution. Charities have more restrictions than other exempt organizations. Of couse all these types of organiations are subject to tax on their unrelated business taxable income (UBIT). This is income that they generate that is not related to there exempt purpose. You see this in trade organizations that put out a news letter and sell advertising space in it–if they make any income on the publication of that news letter it is subject to taxation.

So my answer is no unless you want to strip all other exempt organizations also.

Peace,
Mark

 

[Brendan]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

Thank you

No, as that would imply that the secular government has authority over the Church.

In a society that truly believes in a seperation of Church and State, the State has no more power to tax a Church than the Church does to compel tithes from the State.

 

[Langdell]

Should the Catholic Church (and other religious groups for that matter) be taxed by the government, considering that is also an interest group that wants to have a say in society and public policy? Why or why not?

Thank you

I think it depends on whether you feel that religious organizations should receive the extra encouragement that results from tax exemptions and the tax-deductibility of donations to them. Since I believe that religious organizations are good for society (and essential for a truly healthy society), I think they should be tax-exempt.