Tea Party Movement

[tomarin]

Is the Tea Party movement compatible with the Catholic Faith - our Morals and Social objectives?

I’m not sure if we’re allowed to discuss this topic. I started a thread on the Tea Party that was shut down by a moderator without explanation about ten posts in.

My feeling is that the rank-and-file members of the Tea Party movement tend to be libertarian and that the movement itself is inspired by libertarian ideology. They often talk about how the Constitution is being radically misinterpreted and that that needs to be changed.

If that’s true then not only are the Tea Partiers not compatible with Christianity, they’re not compatible with conservatism. But I’m sure we could have a lively debate about that.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to some of their goals, i.e. a smaller, more fiscally responsible government.

 

[LemonAndLime]

How about because “free health care” is not free. It is paid for by taxes. So to institute a “free health care” system taxes must go up.

Spoken like a true American. And one who fails to see that an increase in taxes will be cheaper than paying health insurance, or at least the same. Also, insurance may not pay out. Free health service will always be free once it exists.

I am proud to work for the free National Health Service and happy that it is there for me. It means the poor get the same treatment as the rich. It also means that hospitals are not treated as hotels and that patients don’t expect it to have the same services as one. It also eliminates rogue doctors who charge a great deal but offer poor service, as well as acting as a control for the quality of services.

 

[Ceil-1]

The Tea Party is about holding the government to its constitutional limitations. Nothing more, nothing less.

Since the Congress, Senate, and the White House, by their own admission, have overstepped thier boundaries, it is incumbent on the people to take action. First is protest, second is revolt (voting them out), Failing that, well, we won’t go there.

In my state, there is a movement towards Interposition: opposing the federal government for taking away states’ rights which have clearly been violated with this health care law. A few other violations as well. The southern states tried this and eventually thought they had to secede. We all know how that came out.

That is not a Tea Party Movement event, per say, but, those who fall for the propaganda against the Tea Party must not realize that their Constitutional protections have been violated. So, who is not educated, here?

Free health careH? That’s a good one.

This is a serious issue.

 

[Pregustator]

The Tea Party is about holding the government to its constitutional limitations. Nothing more, nothing less.

For you, perhaps, but not for all who embrace it. For many in the Tea Party, the focus is on “fringe” issues such as President Obama’s birth certificate and his religion. For others, like Christine O’Donnell, the focus seems to be on so-called “moral” issues.

 

[tomarin]

The Tea Party is about holding the government to its constitutional limitations. Nothing more, nothing less.

Can you expand on that? Which constitutional limitations?

 

[mary_bobo]

Can you expand on that? Which constitutional limitations?

For starters, how about the clause that says that powers not specifically given to the federal government in the Constitution are left to the states?

 

[mary_bobo]

Spoken like a true American. And one who fails to see that an increase in taxes will be cheaper than paying health insurance, or at least the same. Also, insurance may not pay out. Free health service will always be free once it exists.

I am proud to work for the free National Health Service and happy that it is there for me. It means the poor get the same treatment as the rich. It also means that hospitals are not treated as hotels and that patients don’t expect it to have the same services as one. It also eliminates rogue doctors who charge a great deal but offer poor service, as well as acting as a control for the quality of services.

You are apparently happy with what you have across the pond and I am pleased that you are. In a system such as yours, health care gets adjusted to its lowest common denominator. Everyone gets the same care albeit very poor care. You may not think that increased taxes is paying for the “free care” but then, what is?

I had the occasion to partake in the Canadian system in a life-threatening situation and darn near died. Perhaps your system is better. I do not know.

 

[zab]

I’m not sure if we’re allowed to discuss this topic. I started a thread on the Tea Party that was shut down by a moderator without explanation about ten posts in.

My feeling is that the rank-and-file members of the Tea Party movement tend to be libertarian and that the movement itself is inspired by libertarian ideology. They often talk about how the Constitution is being radically misinterpreted and that that needs to be changed.

If that’s true then not only are the Tea Partiers not compatible with Christianity, they’re not compatible with conservatism. But I’m sure we could have a lively debate about that.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to some of their goals, i.e. a smaller, more fiscally responsible government.

This topic does seems more fitting for the political discussion board.

 

[tomarin]

For starters, how about the clause that says that powers not specifically given to the federal government in the Constitution are left to the states?

Okay. Can you flesh that out for me? When did this problem start and what can be done to fix it?

 

[Robert_Burns]

I’m not sure if we’re allowed to discuss this topic. I started a thread on the Tea Party that was shut down by a moderator without explanation about ten posts in.

My feeling is that the rank-and-file members of the Tea Party movement tend to be libertarian and that the movement itself is inspired by libertarian ideology. They often talk about how the Constitution is being radically misinterpreted and that that needs to be changed.

If that’s true then not only are the Tea Partiers not compatible with Christianity, they’re not compatible with conservatism. But I’m sure we could have a lively debate about that.

I say this as someone who is sympathetic to some of their goals, i.e. a smaller, more fiscally responsible government.

Sorry if this topic offends - but I assure everyone it is an honest question - I really confess that I dont know that much about the movement. My question was to try to see what other Catholics here thought of it.

 

[Ceil-1]

In the first place, there is a general disregard, and has been, for the limitations of the central government. For instance, the funding of certain things such as science and art. It is supposed to protect the right to pursue these choices (except, of course, when it violates such things as life, a higher right).

There are several violations that are money related. That battle has been going on for a long time.

The issue that is prompting the Interposition is the tenth amendment, as cited above. The government also cannot force us to purchase a specific good.

Frankly, there are so many, it would be hard to list them all, and, I am sure they would find loopholes and arguements for the various and sundries “liberties” that have been taken.

The point is that too many people don’t have enough common sense that those people up on that hill are going to “grab all they can” until we get smart and stop them.

This is the “little people’s” attempt to begin to put their finger in the dike. It may already be too late.

 

[bhall0689]

The biggest issue I take with the “Tea Party” is their fear-mongering. I’ve heard Tea Partiers in interviews saying things like they’re “scared” for America, they want to “take America back,” that they’re “fearful.” Notions like this are being perpetrated by immoral sensationalists like Glenn Beck to gain popular support. What are these fears based on?

Sometimes we have a Democratic president, and sometimes we have a Republican one. There’s no need to be “fearful” for our country and all of this nonsense.

 

[Karamazov]

As a British person, my perception of the Tea Party was that it was Republican.

I was told by a Canadian friend that they campaign against having free health care? Can I ask why anyone in their right mind would campaign against that, especially as many people in the USA has to pay hefty health insurance fees, which don’t always pay out?

My friend also explained that the reasoning behind this was that they are sure the American Dream is going to pay out for them - and that yes, free healthcare will benefit them now, but when they eventually get millions of pounds and become rich, they don’t want to have to pay taxes to pay for national health insurance, even though it will be cheaper then private health insurance?

American politics is a strange thing to behold for us Brits. Americans mix their politics with their religion; hence the Republicans represent all that is good and holy and the Democrats are the evil liberals. Socialism is an evil word in America. I’m not sure why. Look at it this way; American Christians are quite happy for their country to go to war (illegally) and cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. But they kick up a huge fuss when asked to provide their own poor with free healthcare. They consider their own poor a burden. America doesn’t give handouts in their eyes; even in a recession when there’s no jobs to go around. Oh, and they ALWAYS want lower taxes. Even when higher taxes would help the economy. Compare this attitude with Jesus, when the rich young man came to Jesus and asked him what one thing he should do to be saved, Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give the money to the poor. The early church in the book of Acts lived by this principle. They “had everything in common”. They sold their stuff and gave the money to the poor.

Somehow, American Christians have been told by the rich Republicans that greed is good, and they’ve fallen for the lie. They’ve embraced hyper-capitalism as if it were the very word of God. The poor and needy are just bums, slowing down the economy. In the great land of opportunity, if you can’t find that opportunity then you don’t fit in. The American dream is just that for most, a dream. Yet they all buy the lie told them from the rich, that lower taxes for the wealthy will trickle down to the poor. It’s just sad that when the poor expect some of that wealth to trickle down, they get kicked in the teeth. And the Tea Party is just another symptom of a greedy society that thinks it is doing the will of God.

 

[tomarin]

In the first place, there is a general disregard, and has been, for the limitations of the central government. For instance, the funding of certain things such as science and art. It is supposed to protect the right to pursue these choices (except, of course, when it violates such things as life, a higher right).

Can you point me to the relevant parts of the Constitution that are being violated?

 

[Ceil-1]

After all that has happenend in the last year-and-a-half you would call the concerns being voiced fear-mongering? Inconceivable.

It’s not enough that the Federal Reserve and all their buddies in Congress, the Senate, Wall Street and the like contrived a near-collapse of the entire economic system that you depend on for your bread and butter, then proceeded to take over the auto-making industry. Now they are systematically taking over the entire health care field, thereby having literal sway over your very life, and you are okay with that?

Are you living in a Kibbutz, somwhere, immune to these people who just sold your and your posterity’s future to the Chinese/Japanese, and you literally cannot make a move, a living, a belch, without your gov’s permission and assistance?

This all has hit home to me due to the fact that I have college-aged children, and, due to our economic system lost all our college savings, and, are now faced with going with hand outstretched to Uncle Sugar Daddy Sam to get the exorbitant fees to pay for an education that, without, they will LITERALLY STARVE. They will begin their adult life in crippling debt.

Whenever I think about it, I literally get sick to my stomach.

And here you people sit there and think this slavery and dependence on these tyrants are a good thing because they offer you a handout.

Excuse me if I, your unwilling slave, revolt against you and your masters supreme.

 

[mary_bobo]

Can you point me to the relevant parts of the Constitution that are being violated?

For a start, how about the part that the things not granted the the federal government are left to the states. The responsibilities of the federal government are clearly stated in the constitution and the federal government long ago began gobbling up more and more functions that should be left to the states.

 

[tomarin]

For a start, how about the part that the things not granted the the federal government are left to the states. The responsibilities of the federal government are clearly stated in the constitution and the federal government long ago began gobbling up more and more functions that should be left to the states.

So, if you were Obama and you woke up one morning and realized “Oh my God, I took an oath to defend the Consitution and here I am doing all these unconstitutional things” and you wanted to make amends what would you do?

 

[Like]

American politics is a strange thing to behold for us Brits. Americans mix their politics with their religion; hence the Republicans represent all that is good and holy and the Democrats are the evil liberals. Socialism is an evil word in America. I’m not sure why. Look at it this way; American Christians are quite happy for their country to go to war (illegally) and cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. But they kick up a huge fuss when asked to provide their own poor with free healthcare. They consider their own poor a burden. America doesn’t give handouts in their eyes; even in a recession when there’s no jobs to go around. Oh, and they ALWAYS want lower taxes. Even when higher taxes would help the economy. Compare this attitude with Jesus, when the rich young man came to Jesus and asked him what one thing he should do to be saved, Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give the money to the poor. The early church in the book of Acts lived by this principle. They “had everything in common”. They sold their stuff and gave the money to the poor.

Somehow, American Christians have been told by the rich Republicans that greed is good, and they’ve fallen for the lie. They’ve embraced hyper-capitalism as if it were the very word of God. The poor and needy are just bums, slowing down the economy. In the great land of opportunity, if you can’t find that opportunity then you don’t fit in. The American dream is just that for most, a dream. Yet they all buy the lie told them from the rich, that lower taxes for the wealthy will trickle down to the poor. It’s just sad that when the poor expect some of that wealth to trickle down, they get kicked in the teeth. And the Tea Party is just another symptom of a greedy society that thinks it is doing the will of God.

How dare you Socialist Brits preach to us your C*** about our system of government! You bloody blokes seems to forget who whipped your butts (1775–1783) & saved your butts in WWII!

Seems you can’t see how your government is screwing you around. Read your own newspapers lately. Your not as free as you think you are!

That’s OK, just lay down & let your government run over you while we fight to keep our freedom!

Butt that’s OK, we’re still praying for you!

 

[Like]

After all that has happenend in the last year-and-a-half you would call the concerns being voiced fear-mongering? Inconceivable.

It’s not enough that the Federal Reserve and all their buddies in Congress, the Senate, Wall Street and the like contrived a near-collapse of the entire economic system that you depend on for your bread and butter, then proceeded to take over the auto-making industry. Now they are systematically taking over the entire health care field, thereby having literal sway over your very life, and you are okay with that?

Are you living in a Kibbutz, somwhere, immune to these people who just sold your and your posterity’s future to the Chinese/Japanese, and you literally cannot make a move, a living, a belch, without your gov’s permission and assistance?

This all has hit home to me due to the fact that I have college-aged children, and, due to our economic system lost all our college savings, and, are now faced with going with hand outstretched to Uncle Sugar Daddy Sam to get the exorbitant fees to pay for an education that, without, they will LITERALLY STARVE. They will begin their adult life in crippling debt.

Whenever I think about it, I literally get sick to my stomach.

And here you people sit there and think this slavery and dependence on these tyrants are a good thing because they offer you a handout.

Excuse me if I, your unwilling slave, revolt against you and your masters supreme.

For a start, how about the part that the things not granted the the federal government are left to the states. The responsibilities of the federal government are clearly stated in the constitution and the federal government long ago began gobbling up more and more functions that should be left to the states.

That’s OK, he has a free pass card being from HIS (Obama’s) state.

 

[Ceil-1]

The 9th amendment states that the feds are not free to violate rights not specifically ennumerated in the Constitution. Just because it doesn’t specifically say not to pay for abortion, doesn’t mean it’s okay to mandate it’s support.

The 10th amendment reserves for the state powers not specifically spelled out in the Constitution. The commerce clause may give the feds some power over economic activity, but not all. Plus, insurance is not economic activity. It’s not a fruitcake being consumed.

In short, as has been the case the last 100 years or so, the feds are taking liberties with the law they have no business doing. In the name of “fighting poverty” of course.

Of course, there is the problem of interpreting the text. When you have the powers that be interpreting laws your way, it means little me and little you are up the creek without a paddle.

What is needed is a paradigm shift.

I personally think our goose is cooked, but, I don’t plan to go down without a fight. What is it they say about jail? Three hots and a cot? Probably better than I’ll be getting at home, soon.