Teaching about the Roles of Catholics and NonCatholics in Mass at a Catholic School

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Phemie said:
In my case for many years my non-Catholic spouse was the one earning the money I was putting in the collection plate.
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Money does not know a denomination. Sad to think about it that way… (not you btw).
 
az4faith said:
Does this mean that no one under confirmation age can bring up the gifts?
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No, I’ve seen kids between First Communion age and Confirmation age do it a lot, especially at any sort of school Mass or young people’s Mass. I have however noticed that
  • often they are accompanied by parents, so it’s a whole family bringing up gifts as a family
  • if possible they try to give the children less breakable/ spillable items, such as bringing up food baskets that will be donated, while someone older would carry up anything that could break or spill.
 
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Our parish used to have the person who had the Vocations chalice for the week bring up the gifts. This gave the disabled and elderly a chance to participate at Mass. We do not do the Vocations chalice any more. The ushers bring up the gifts now.
 
I am so pleased to see the responses to my questions. God is certainly working through your sharing. I am getting to see your perspectives. I am currently working on planning my CCD Year and my Scope and Sequence and Lessons for the 2018/2019 year. I am indeed sensitive to the concerns of non-Catholics as I live in a predominantly non-Catholic country, I am married to a Baptist who has been worshiping in the Catholic Church (not the Baptist Church) for the 33 years of our marriage. Knowing and understanding what we believes helps us to respond respectfully to those who challenge us about why we do what we do as Catholics and even why we do not allow ‘others’ to join us in some spheres of our worship. As Catholics we have a responsibility to be militant about the Truths of our Church.

As it pertains to participation of non-Catholics in the Mass - on the parish level in the music ministry, this saddens me. Why can’t we have sufficient Catholic to do this role? My music teacher at a Catholic school was not Catholic and he was also an organist in both Catholic Churches and Anglican Churches. He was an Anglican.

The current organists in most of our local Catholic Church are Catholics and this is because during the years when we have fewer organists, our parishes made a concerted effort to encourage new musicians. I am one of them. I began playing the organ in Mass at that age of 13 and so did several of the other current musicians.

To ensure that we have adequate musicians in the Catholic Church, I am offering an Enrichment Program this summer to introduce children to Church music - in piano and guitar. I have high school students assisting me in this project. Without focus on these needs, the Catholic Church will not be able to supply from its membership - persons to fill roles that are integral to the Liturgy. Much graces are afforded to those who work in the all aspects of the Liturgy.

In the school setting, our children’s choirs and even musicians - such as woodwinds, brass, percussion, etc. - and even music teachers are not Catholic, but it is imperative that Catholic teachers and the Religion Coordinators set the pace of the school Mass - working in collaboration with the priest. I am a Church musician (Organist) and I once was a music teachers) but I now serve as a Religion Coordinator/Teacher in the school. The music teacher is not a Catholic, but she and I work closely together. In some cases, I play the organ at school Masses and she works with the choir. In some situations she plays the keyboard (as she is not an organist) and I assist in leading the school body with the singing. She and I have a good working relationship. All children are taught the songs for Mass and all students are taught to responses for Mass. All students are also taught about the sacramentals - and things that they see in a Catholic Church. Even though we respect the religions on non-Catholics, as members of the Catholic school body, both teachers and students should be exposed to and develop an understanding of ‘things Catholic.’
 
Ann_Stanton said:
Our parish used to have the person who had the Vocations chalice for the week bring up the gifts. This gave the disabled and elderly a chance to participate at Mass. We do not do the Vocations chalice any more. The ushers bring up the gifts now.
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What was that Vocations chalice, if I may ask?
 
One person or family would be given a chalice in a wooden box to take home. In the box were a set of daily prayers for vocations and the parish vocation prayer to pray during the week. The person or persons would pray the vocation prayers while looking at the chalice. During each Mass on Sunday a different person or family would get the chalice during Mass and at the same time the previous person or family would offer the chalice back to the parish. It was a beautiful tradition.
 
Noted_Touch said:
As it pertains to participation of non-Catholics in the Mass - on the parish level in the music ministry, this saddens me. Why can’t we have sufficient Catholic to do this role? My music teacher at a Catholic school was not Catholic and he was also an organist in both Catholic Churches and Anglican Churches. He was an Anglican.
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Why does it sadden you so much? On a parish level, the music ministry is basically the only ministry a non-Catholic can be a participant in.

As a NC spouse who wanted to be a bit more active in the parish I asked what I could do they came back with “well, what about the music ministry”. That’s not really my thing…“well, that’s all we’ve got for you”.

I looked on their website and yep…everything else required a confirmed Catholic. So as a NC spouse who wanted to be more active in my families parish and feel more a part of it, all I was offered was the music ministry. There may be others who are in the same boat and would jump at the chance.
 
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Noted_Touch said:
As it pertains to participation of non-Catholics in the Mass - on the parish level in the music ministry, this saddens me. Why can’t we have sufficient Catholic to do this role?
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There’s nothing “sad” about including some non-Catholics in our services. Who knows, maybe it will encourage them to become Catholics.
 
Absolutely! Love the person, not the person because of their faith.
 
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Is this a policy dictated by canon law, the preference of the diocese or preference of the parish? I’m really not sure how bringing up the gifts at Mass requires one to be a confirmed Catholic. Also, back years ago when I helped to coordinate elementary school Masses, I know the General Instruction of the Roman Missal had a section pertaining specifically to Masses with Children, which gave more of a “leeway” in the rubrics. We always included non-Catholic children in the celebration of the Mass as lectors, greeters, gift bearers. And at that time, none of the Catholic children were confirmed.
 
I agree. Back when I was Catholic I always wondered why they claimed to be a Universal Church and then assumed everyone else wasnt worthy.
 
No clue…

I just looked on the parish website when it said no NC’s for usher/gift bearer. I didn’t go any further to look up why.
 
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There is nothing in Canon Law dealing with ushers or gift bearers.

The GIRM says having the gifts brought forward by the faithful “is praiseworthy” but doesn’t say that it has to be done that way.
 
Phemie said:
The GIRM says having the gifts brought forward by the faithful “is praiseworthy” but doesn’t say that it has to be done that way.
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On the other hand, it makes a certain amount of sense if the people bringing up the gifts will actually be able to receive them as communion later in the Mass.
 
The responses are excellent. My question is, "How many of us would go into a non-Catholic church and participate in their Communion Service. We would not. There is where we are not in ‘full communion.’ Would we go and lead the Reading or their Praise and Worship? Would we go there to teach? Have we done so?

In good conscience, we know how far to go and what we should not do and can do without being blasphemous to what we know is Truth. I, myself, took a position in a Pentecostal setting to develop a program for their school. I did not get involved with their Church or doctrinal matters. I did not allow anyone their to challenge me. They needed my skills and they were paying me for it. If they had someone of their faith who could do it, then they certainly would have used that person. They learned a lot from me and I also learned a lot from them.

We do have boundaries and as it pertains to the sacraments, that’s where boundaries are set. Do you agree?
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I don’t buy the viewpoint that we have to just let everybody do everything they want including receive Communion, read etc. or we’re being big bad old mean exclusive Catholic Church.
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I agree with you.

Welcoming people (Catholics and non-Catholics alike) is great. But the notion that everybody needs to be ‘included’ through carrying out some liturgical function misses (I believe) the purpose of Mass.

There is also the undeniable substantial difference between being part of the Catholic Church and being a Christian outside of the Catholic Church. Downplaying, or even ignoring, these differences is to say these differences are not important. To say that is to imply that the Church teachings that result in these differences are not important.
 
Noted_Touch said:
The responses are excellent. My question is, "How many of us would go into a non-Catholic church and participate in their Communion Service. We would not.
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While I agree with you that we shouldn’t, I know many Catholics who do. I’ve even seen a priest receive at an Anglican Communion Service, which meant that even more Catholics followed suit.
 
I don’t think people realize that even having a Catholic lay person, as opposed to priest, deacon etc, do some of these functions is a relatively recent development for the Church.

I also think the context of the OP’s situation is a bit unique. There is a Catholic school that has lots of non-Catholic kids going there. Presumably the non-Catholics are required to be at some Masses that they otherwise likely wouldn’t just choose to attend. They are also kids and may be more affected by feeling “left out” of a Mass, especially when they are made to go. Their parents, who probably have little or no understanding of Catholic practice, get pushy the same way any parent does when they feel their kid is being excluded. It doesn’t help that whoever was previously in charge allowed the non-Catholic kids to read even though it may well have been contrary to the guidelines, or alternatively maybe this happened once a year at some special Mass like graduation for which the bishop gave permission to let non-Catholic kids read.

You can’t extrapolate from this situation to every Catholic church dealing with every non-Catholic everywhere and make a blanket statement about the Church.
 
I am a Catechist in a parish where only 19% of the children in our CCD classes attend a Catholic school. Many attend public school and other private non-Catholic schools. I am also the Religion teacher for our Church school, and only 19% of our students are Catholic. I was wondering if this was a sign from above. I feel it is imperative that our CCD program is excellent to meet the needs of Catholic families and we find ways to enable those families who wish to attend a Catholic school to do so. I do get ‘flack’ from non-Catholic teachers in our school who along with non-Catholic older students who bring complaints that the non-Catholic children feel left out at Mass. It was imperative that I continually allow the students and the teachers note that participation include much more than ‘receiving the Eucharist.’ Both Catholic children who have not yet received their First Holy Communion and others who wish to receive a blessing can come up to Communion and the priest, the deacon or the Eucharistic Minister gives them a blessing. I, myself, during morning Mass, if I miss the gospel because I am late, would only receive a blessing - instead of the Eucharist. The grace of God is bigger than receiving the Eucharist - because He is indeed present - in the Word, in the Holy Spirit and in the Tabernacle. We do not alienate non-Catholics - but show our reverence to the Eucharist - because if we have not fasted one-hour before Mass or if we are late or if we feel we need to go to Confession - we ourselves do nor receive the Eucharist. If others see our abstinence from receiving - they know that it is not something automatic.
 
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