Teaching men not to stare [Modesty is covered elsewhere on CAF]

[on_the_hill]

“Her eyes look at her eyes.”

Unless your thing is eyes, right? Just kidding.

Take me, for example. I’m bad at eye contact. My eyes have a tendency to wander all over, including all over the person I’m talking to, whether man or woman. 9/10 times, I’m not even aware of what I’m looking at.

 

[commenter]

commenter:

“If your eyes go below my daughter’s neck, my hands go around your neck” -Mark Hart
This attitude teaches that it’s ok for men to put their hands wherever they want.
An older man should be a better role model for younger men.

I’m pretty sure no one will take Hart’s hyperbole as permission to strangle people.

In 2019, I would not take anything for granted. Anyway, there are other bad things guys can do with their hands.

 

[HumbleIOughtToBe]

Agreed, nevertheless, this board was to discuss an issue that is brushed aside by that argument such as this. The females I communicated with state the emphasis from Catholic Education post 2010 is upon modesty, not teaching men not to stare.

The board as a whole seams more serious in dealing with Female clothing than Male problems, of which both are needed.

 

[HumbleIOughtToBe]

This is what I mean when I said:

“The Mark Hart quote was an addition to a post that almost diverted the entire discussion”

I hypothesize the CAF emphasis was placed upon that one quote rather than the main quote. By this occurring, the entire distraction has gone away into somewhere we did not need to go.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Is it too much to ask men to respect themselves, and women? And same for women?
I think there is a large gray area between dressing like a Kardashian and dressing like a nun. Hopefully men can avoid staring inappropriately at women. Women can make it easier by not wearing clingy / revealing clothing (especially in the workplace).
Stay classy, saints!

 

[HumbleIOughtToBe]

Women can make it easier by not wearing clingy / revealing clothing (especially in the workplace).

This needs to be talked about, fortunately it is being talked about elsewhere. The point of this forum post was to talk about what was not being preached nearly as hard on the Internet.

I think there is a large gray area between dressing like a Kardashian and dressing like a nun.

Agreed, nonetheless the premise of this section was to discuss the male side of the problem. We compartmentalize the problems.

After all, We don’t talk about 2 problems in 1 thread,
-CAF users to me:“Your must be new to this board”.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Would it be incorrect to suggest that men stealing a glance is human nature? Are we expecting all men to defy human nature 100% of the time?

 

[Cruciferi]

It’s not evil or unnatural to notice someone of the opposite sex. Furthermore, It’s NOT only a Men’s Issue. Both sexes should be taught public manners and etiquette on top of guarding their eyes and not lusting.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

I think this is an interesting read. I think it helps explain why there is more emphasis on women and modesty, rather than custody of the eyes.

Through a Man's Eyes: What Women Should Know

For centuries, the only woman a man would ever see intimately would be his wife. Now males are bombarded with visual temptations. Author Shaunti Feldhahn spells out how couples can fight this temptation.

www1.cbn.com

 

[esieffe]

Is that serious? Do we really need to teach men this? It’s a pretty low opinion of the male population to think we need to be taught this.

I agree. The OP taken as a whole is a bit down the rabbit hole.

 

[PJH_74]

Call to CAF:
To summarize the following post:

• How ought we to teach men not to stare?

I’m not sure how you think this wasn’t a reply to your original post.

• The war on boys
• Sexual Privilege

In my opinion you are trying to band-aid a basic issue of how we raise our children. This is not a “war on boys” this hopefully an wakening to the roles we pigeon hole our children into. I’m not even talking about “traditional” gender roles. This is not an attack on manhood, it’s and addressing what is known as toxic manhood. This is not about oppressing men, quite the contrary, it’s relieving men from the ridiculous roles men feel obliged to fulfill and the distance this puts between the genders. We can do better.

Agreed, nevertheless , this board was to discuss an issue that is brushed aside by that argument such as this. The females I communicated with state the emphasis from Catholic Education post 2010 is upon modesty, not teaching men not to stare.

The board as a whole seams more serious in dealing with Female clothing than Male problems, of which both are needed.

I appreciate the general direction you are tying to go, but some women here are trying to articulate that some regimen of training men to look away is not the end answer. We need to get beyond this idea that there is a “war” on men and boys. What we are asking you to do is stop and listen, that’s it. When we often talk about male privilege, it is the inability to stop and listen because your upbringing has taught you to believe you answers are unique profound. Again, not trying to attack.

 

[HumbleIOughtToBe]

The first quote you mentioned is the original question.

The second quote you mentioned is me trying to exclude other peoples preferred concerns and questions so 1 cohesive discussion on one specific question can occur, as @edwest (the quote below mine) and a few others had other concerns not relevant to the central point. For other issues other people bring up, I neither confirm nor deny the existence of any of them. The reason I wish what I said would be in the first post is to eliminate the branches not relevant to the tree of this discussion.

Then your commentary on the second quote you cite is incorrect. I am focusing on 1 question, the first quote. You bring up 2 things I am against talking about in this forum, as if that was the subject. I do not state their is a war on boys and sexual privilege. It just so happened that @edwest mentioned those 2 things of which I am trying to eliminate. I commented on your post, then edited that post to critique his which was the one below. I now know to post to specific people.

Then their was the 3rd quote. So many people tried to move a conversation on 1 problem(Men staring), into a conversation of a second problem(Woman’s clothing), that was what I tried to restrict. While understanding how they are related, I separate the two so we can actually talk about the less popular one.

Their was your commentary on the 3rd quote. Your first sentence was pure gold that I value very much, as it shows the error in my approach. Thank you for this sentence. The mention of the war on boys and male privilege was me trying to stop @edwest from bringing this forum into his own personal subjects. I have no interest in discussing male privilege. I understand male privilege is discriminatory and morally wrong, but nonetheless have no interest in going into this conversation here. I understand there is no war on boys, I just try to eliminate other peoples topics of interest.

 

[Brendan_64]

When we often talk about male privilege

What exactly is ‘male privilege’? This concept seems to often be bandied around as if it is some kind of established fact, as if men, women and other ‘categories’ of people automatically sit on some sort of hierarchy.

 

[JulianN]

hat exactly is ‘male privilege’? This concept seems to often be bandied around as if it is some kind of established fact, as if men, women and other ‘categories’ of people automatically sit on some sort of hierarchy.

I think that’s a topic for a whole new thread.

 

[Brendan_64]

Well it was mentioned on here. I think that topics like the one on this thread sometimes carry on the basis that concepts such as ‘male privilege’ are a given and underpin arguments.

Treating women decently is to do with basic manners and respect for our fellow human beings, it’s hardly ‘rocket science’. Concepts such as ‘male privilege’ exist, I believe, to further ‘progressive’ ideologies.

 

[JulianN]

I don’t want to derail the thread, so I’ll just say that the term male privilege is more a description of reality than it is a concept.

 

[Brendan_64]

I’ll just say that the term male privilege is more a description of reality than it is a concept.

Does ‘female privilege’ exist as a description of realities?

 

[JulianN]

Seriously, this is derailing the OP’s thread. I’m out.

 

[0331]

Male privelege means that in general, men are bigger, faster, and stronger than women, and this means men are priveleged to defend women and children, fight in war, and even die from violence at rates much higher than women.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Would it be incorrect to suggest that men stealing a glance is human nature? Are we expecting all men to defy human nature 100% of the time?

I think this is the heart of the issue.

We are children of the Ever Living God. We should act like it. Noticing & appreciating beauty is one thing but that’s not what the OP is talking about.

& that is not what all men are doing even though we tell ourselves this lie.

Regardless what self esteem issues the lady expresses in her dress, we are called to be holy. We are called to treat her with the dignity God gave her.

It is not “human nature” to oogle, stare, or sexualize that child of God. Human nature is much, much more than that, as has been revealed to us through our Lord, Jesus Christ.