Teaching the faith in a time of crisis

[JimG]

“As poor as my generation’s catechesis was, the generation we are rearing has fared even worse. Whereas we were poorly catechized, they were UN-catechized.
. . .
Not only has our generation made too many choices to compromise Church teaching in the name of our own comfort, we have also patted ourselves on the back far too often for being “enlightened Catholics.” We have been told time and again that our American Catholics are the most educated Catholics in history. That is nonsense, but the problem is that many of us believe it.”

This article by Anne Maloney seemed so accurate about so many family situations today. I found myself nodding in agreement and recognizing the same situations among my own family and relatives. But it was also disturbing. First we raised a generation of poorly catechized, who then raised a generation of uncatechized, and morally illiterate. It’s hard to see a basis for hope, but the writer clearly thinks we should make efforts to begin a turnaround.

But how? I was born into a Christian culture, lived in a Catholic culture in a Catholic family. Now I live in what has become a pagan culture.

Teaching the faith in a time of crisis. by Anne Maloney

 

[2PT3]

I read this too, and it really struck home with me. Excellent article. The secular agenda is indeed like a creeping gas that fills every cranny and finds a way to infiltrate any space no matter how well you try to seal it. It is everywhere, and there is no escape. It is promoted incessantly by all the powerful levers of society: the media, entertainment, academia, government. It is in our Catholic schools and, if we are honest, is pervasive among Catholics - both clergy and lay. Ms. Maloney is correct (as was St. John Paul II) that the Church needs “credible witnesses” that attract by their joy, humility and faithfulness to the Gospel.

 

[pianistclare]

Here’s the thing:
If parents will not bring their children to church or to catechetical classes except when they “get” their sacraments…how does anyone think we’re going to turn this around?

I feel like Pastors need to speak about keeping children in formation.
They announce when classes begin, or put it in the bulletin, but they don’t come right out and ask : Have you registered your child yet?

Most people will respond if told to do something. And if they don’t see a need, then that’s the opportunity for the priest to counsel the family on the importance of knowing your faith and not just “showing up to get your card punched”.

:twocents:

 

[Padres1969]

I have to say, one of the author’s questions near the end of the article really resonates with me after talking with my sister last night. Specifically, “Why aren’t they attracted enough to our lives to hear what we have to say?”

And the answer seems to be, after talking to my sister and knowing conversations I’ve had over the years with my own mother, that they’re not attracted to your lives (those being what the author and I suspect many on CAF would consider “good” Catholic lives) because they don’t see “your” lives as attractive or good so why would they want to hear what you have to say?

To put my above statement in context my sister and I were discussing my paternal grandmother, god rest her soul, and her concept of life which while not the best Catholic life was closer to it than most in our family. “Family” being a big topic in our family right now with the recent arrival of my daughter who is the first of her generation in my immediate family (ie: she’s my parents first grand kid and my sister and brother’s first niece). My sister frankly speaks of my grandmother’s life of marriage at 21, having two kids, being a moderately devout Catholic (though admittedly less so than her own incredibly devout mother), and living life as a home maker and caretaker as being a waste of potential despite over 60 years of by most accounts happy marriage before her death.

My sister doesn’t view a happy marriage and “good” Catholic life of old where you do everything in the “proper” way as being something laudable. Rather she views it as a cover for a deeply flawed and in her view sexist system and what could possibly be redeemable about that, never mind why would you want advice for people who’ve been convinced to live like that?

 

[Padres1969]

Here’s the thing:
If parents will not bring their children to church or to catechetical classes except when they “get” their sacraments…how does anyone think we’re going to turn this around?

I feel like Pastors need to speak about keeping children in formation.
They announce when classes begin, or put it in the bulletin, but they don’t come right out and ask : Have you registered your child yet?

Most people will respond if told to do something. **And if they don’t see a need, then that’s the opportunity for the priest to counsel the family on the importance of knowing your faith and not just “showing up to get your card punched”. **

:twocents:

Likely problem is, if you challenge people these days, the fear is likely that you’ll more likely drive them away entirely than actually encourage them to take the more devout road.

 

[pianistclare]

Likely problem is, if you challenge people these days, the fear is likely that you’ll more likely drive them away entirely than actually encourage them to take the more devout road.

Sure, but also know from years of “not wanting to offend” that this simply doesn’t work.
People come to learn. They expect direction. No one goes to Mass and doesn’t expect to hear a homily or to learn what the priest can teach us.

 

[Padres1969]

Sure, but also know from years of “not wanting to offend” that this simply doesn’t work.
People come to learn. They expect direction. No one goes to Mass and doesn’t expect to hear a homily or to learn what the priest can teach us.

Gonna stop you right there… I know plenty of people, Catholic and Protestant, that go to mass/services and have no interest in what the priest is teaching in the homily/sermon. They’re there to check off that box that they’re “supposed” to be doing by going to mass and nothing more.

My own parents were two of those such people. I doubt my parents could tell you anything they’ve learned in any homily they’ve heard since their school days. And if you ask them why I know what my old man will say, “what does a celibate 30-something Priest from XXX country (that most of the priests in his diocese are from these days) have to teach a married American adult twice his age and experience. Particularly on matters of family or anything relating to American life.”

My college roommate was another (he did the “checkbox” thing with more than just church too. It’s why his first college girlfriend left him, she was just another check box he was ticking off and she knew it). He went to church because he was raised Catholic and it was expected of him. He didn’t go to actually learn anything from the priests. He went to hear the word, receive the Eucharist, occasionally have his sins forgiven and move on to the next thing in his day.

 

[pianistclare]

Gonna stop you right there… I know plenty of people, Catholic and Protestant, that go to mass/services and have no interest in what the priest is teaching in the homily/sermon. They’re there to check off that box that they’re “supposed” to be doing by going to mass and nothing more.

My own parents were two of those such people. I doubt my parents could tell you anything they’ve learned in any homily they’ve heard since their school days. And if you ask them why I know what my old man will say, “what does a celibate 30-something Priest from XXX country (that most of the priests in his diocese are from these days) have to teach a married American adult twice his age and experience. Particularly on matters of family or anything relating to American life.”

My college roommate was another (he did the “checkbox” thing with more than just church too. It’s why his first college girlfriend left him, she was just another check box he was ticking off and she knew it). He went to church because he was raised Catholic and it was expected of him. He didn’t go to actually learn anything from the priests. He went to hear the word, receive the Eucharist, occasionally have his sins forgiven and move on to the next thing in his day.

So you just made my point.
Catechesis.
Simply not available?
no. No one shows up .

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I have to say, one of the author’s questions near the end of the article really resonates with me after talking with my sister last night. Specifically, “Why aren’t they attracted enough to our lives to hear what we have to say?”

And the answer seems to be, after talking to my sister and knowing conversations I’ve had over the years with my own mother, that they’re not attracted to your lives (those being what the author and I suspect many on CAF would consider “good” Catholic lives) because they don’t see “your” lives as attractive or good so why would they want to hear what you have to say?

And that in a nutshell probably answers the question of reduced “religiosity” of not just Catholics, but other faiths in the West. Living faithfully brings joy to your lives, but does the next generation derive joy from the same things previous generations did?

 

[Padres1969]

So you just made my point.
Catechesis.
Simply not available?
no. No one shows up .

Problem is if you’re waiting to catechize people by the time they go to weekly mass, you’ve likely waited too long for most people. Saying it’s available is one thing, but expecting them to avail themselves of it at that late hour is quite another.

How to solve that issue though I don’t know what the answer is. Essentially Catholic education and catechsis were an unbroken chain in large part in the institutional church. Parents and children were “good” Catholics and taught their kids, and their kids, and so on. It was the case in many Protestant churches as well I’d add. Somewhere along the line (seemingly starting with the Greatest Generation and definitely ramping up in the Baby Boomer generation). I mean my own church under our new presiding bishop has tried to steer the church away from being primarily an institutional church a bit and more toward being what he terms a “Jesus movement” since we’ve been in the era of movements since about the 1960’s. Can’t say for the ECUSA as a whole, but for some of the congregations I’m aware of it seems to be working even if it is admittedly early on in its implementation. My own parish has seen a revival of interest and an influx of younger people including myself in recent years, and particularly the last year.

But I’m not sure something like that would be an option for the Catholic church given its probably the most institutional church in Christianity and of course is much more strict in adhering to what it sees as orthodox doctrine. Not to mention the logistics of trying to pivot a church exponentially bigger and by extension culturally diverse than my own. I mean the RCC tried that with the Vatican II changes but they didn’t exactly work out (not to say they caused any thing bad to happen but they didn’t prevent the erosion of the church either in the west).

 

[Padres1969]

And that in a nutshell probably answers the question of reduced “religiosity” of not just Catholics, but other faiths in the West. Living faithfully brings joy to your lives, but does the next generation derive joy from the same things previous generations did?

And the answer is obviously no.

But to use a converse anecdote that recently occurred and seemed relevant, I’m baptizing my daughter later next month. Now obviously I’m not Catholic anymore and my mom at least on paper is (though the last time she went to church was probably when I took her to midnight mass during college before I left the RCC). And I was questioned by her kind of humorously as to why I was doing so. Not because I’m not baptizing my daughter Catholic as one might expect in that situation, but as to why I was doing it at all.

My mom was actually surprised I’d bother to baptize my kid or that it was important to me to do so, to the extent that I formalized my membership in the Episcopal Church this past Easter with reception (I’d been a de facto Episcopalian for quite a while but I felt it was important to make it de jure before I baptized my daughter into the faith). So in essence the religiosity changes from generation to generation can work both ways even if one generation is only going through the motions, as I’ve come to realize my parents largely were doing to keep up appearances and so their kids could go to Catholic school a little more easily. My parents derived no joy from what they saw of “good” Catholic life from my grandmother’s generation, and indeed that trend has continued even more from what little of Catholic/religious life my parents presented to my generation with my sister, and my brother as well who went from altar server to avowed atheist in his late teens to early 20’s. I on the other hand went the other way to an extent however, albeit in a different branch of Christianity. So it’s not like the trend isn’t entirely reversible. But it does seem to be the exception rather than rule.

 

[pianistclare]

Problem is if you’re waiting to catechize people by the time they go to weekly mass, you’ve likely waited too long for most people. Saying it’s available is one thing, but expecting them to avail themselves of it at that late hour is quite another.

How to solve that issue though I don’t know what the answer is. Essentially Catholic education and catechsis were an unbroken chain in large part in the institutional church. Parents and children were “good” Catholics and taught their kids, and their kids, and so on. It was the case in many Protestant churches as well I’d add. Somewhere along the line (seemingly starting with the Greatest Generation and definitely ramping up in the Baby Boomer generation). I mean my own church under our new presiding bishop has tried to steer the church away from being primarily an institutional church a bit and more toward being what he terms a “Jesus movement” since we’ve been in the era of movements since about the 1960’s. Can’t say for the ECUSA as a whole, but for some of the congregations I’m aware of it seems to be working even if it is admittedly early on in its implementation. My own parish has seen a revival of interest and an influx of younger people including myself in recent years, and particularly the last year.

But I’m not sure something like that would be an option for the Catholic church given its probably the most institutional church in Christianity and of course is much more strict in adhering to what it sees as orthodox doctrine. Not to mention the logistics of trying to pivot a church exponentially bigger and by extension culturally diverse than my own. I mean the RCC tried that with the Vatican II changes but they didn’t exactly work out (not to say they caused any thing bad to happen but they didn’t prevent the erosion of the church either in the west).

So give up?
We still offer classes. Come on down people/ We don’t charge anything if you can’t pay the fees. We have certified catechists and DRE’s with theology degrees, many Deacons helping, and great materials.

No excuses. People still have their children Baptized and they make promises at that time. They even have backup (godparents) that also make the same promises.

 

[Padres1969]

So give up?
We still offer classes. Come on down people/ We don’t charge anything if you can’t pay the fees. We have certified catechists and DRE’s with theology degrees, many Deacons helping, and great materials.

No excuses. People still have their children Baptized and they make promises at that time. They even have backup (godparents) that also make the same promises.

No don’t give up. But it’s going to take more than having some classes available. It’s going to have to be a more proactive movement than that to get folks back into church. And it’s going to take some creative “marketing” for lack of a better term.

I mean you and I both know that yes parents make promises when they baptize their kids, and the godparents to as well. But a great many view it as just checking that particular box that they’re expected to do for appearances sake. And that many godparents are only in it for the “prestige” of the title, not to actually assist in raising the child in the faith. That their promises are hollow.