Teachings are just a guide

[MaryRita85]

How would you combat a spouse that says that all the Church teachings are suggestions on how you should live, but if you are married it is ultimately what makes you both happy because divorce is worse than anything else, so if it brings you together who cares? Then says, that the Church doesn’t expect you to follow all the teachings because otherwise their would be no Reconcilliation. I stated that what is taught is not just suggestions it is what we are expected to do and that I would not go against them and that Confession is there because sometimes we do give into sin, because we are human so we can’t be perfect as God is. Following these teachings, I know that I am doing what II should be doing and I am not going to let anyone, including my husband, put me in a state of Mortal Sin. I will fight to the death! I don’t think verses will help as he will see it as a “starting point” and that each person and relationship is different

 

[EasterJoy]

I would say “you just made that up, the Church never taught that.” It’s on him to prove to you that it is otherwise, which he can’t do, because it’s not true.

Besides, if the Church didn’t expect you to follow its teachings, why would it have the Sacrament of Reconciliation at all? It would be like having traffic court in a town where the cops never gave out any tickets. It is a silly argument; and it strains belief that reasoning lead him to it. Wanting to do what he wants to do is more likely to have lead him to it, although one can never know. Still, unless there is some very misguided priest behind this, I don’t know how else he could get to such a conclusion. Let him explain his side, not the other way around. Occam’s Razor says you are right.

 

[MaryRita85]

I would say “you just made that up, the Church never taught that.” It’s on him to prove to you that it is otherwise, which he can’t do, because it’s not true.

Besides, if the Church didn’t expect you to follow its teachings, why would it have the Sacrament of Reconciliation at all? It would be like having traffic court in a town where the cops never gave out any tickets. It is a silly argument; and it strains belief that reasoning lead him to it. Wanting to do what he wants to do is more likely to have lead him to it, although one can never know. Still, unless there is some very misguided priest behind this, I don’t know how else he could get to such a conclusion. Let him explain his side, not the other way around. Occam’s Razor says you are right.

So many things I could have said that I thought of, after the fact.lol His logic isn’t even logic, it doesn’ t make sense, I know this. No, this is on him, I mentioned what Father stated and he said " How does Father **** know anything about sex?" Ok, so he doesn’t engage in sexual activity but he does know the teaching. So frustrating!

 

[nodito]

I would be interested to know how he responds when he reads the section in the catechism on chastity and married life. Or how he reacts to things like “using contraception is intrinsically evil” (CCC 2370 and Humanae Vitae). It doesn’t get a whole lot more clear-cut than that. How could that be confused with the Church saying something “We suggest you don’t use contraception because we think it’ll make your marriage better, but if you disagree with this, go ahead”?

Moreover, where does he get the idea that divorce is worse than anything else? Yes, the Church teaches divorce can be sinful, and a valid marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power, but why accept the Church teaching on this while rejecting other aspects of Her authority?

 

[MaryRita85]

I would be interested to know how he responds when he reads the section in the catechism on chastity and married life. Or how he reacts to things like “using contraception is intrinsically evil” (CCC 2370 and Humanae Vitae). It doesn’t get a whole lot more clear-cut than that. How could that be confused with the Church saying something “We suggest you don’t use contraception because we think it’ll make your marriage better, but if you disagree with this, go ahead”?

Moreover, where does he get the idea that divorce is worse than anything else? Yes, the Church teaches divorce can be sinful, and a valid marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power, but why accept the Church teaching on this while rejecting other aspects of Her authority?

It seems pretty clear cut to me as well. I guess his theory is save the marriage at all costs:shrug:. I think the problem is that we are surrounded by so many “Catholics” who don’t really practice…
I.E. they don’t attend Mass every week, they do sexually explicit things or are using birth control.
well that is unfortunate, but now that I know what is right I am going to do that, if that makes me less “fun” or boring, so be it.

 

[Polycarp1]

Following Church teachings is optional of course. But then so is going to heaven! We have freewill and can choose what we want to do, however we don’t get to choose the consequences of those decisions.

People have the right to go to Hell if they want to and many are choosing to do so by how they live their lives. God does not want anyone to perish into the fires of hell but leaves it up to us. He put in place his plan of redemption for mankind but it is up to us to accept or reject it.

The time of Mercy is now while we are physically alive. Once we die then comes the time of Justice. (Let’s not have a bunch of wailing whinning and snivelling once we get what we have spent our lives asking for!)

 

[The_Bucket]

MaryRita, I hope I’m remembering correctly, but from what I recall you and your husband have a decent amount of sexual baggage, right? If I’m remembering right, I don’t think arguing with him about the subject is going to really solve all that much. He’s not going to listen to a theological explanation here. Perhaps the best way of teaching is by showing?

The Church’s teaching on sexuality does not make sex “less fun” or “boring.” And in that vein, I think perhaps it best to show him how “not boring” it can be. Get my drift here?

And then maybe a few minutes later, you say something like… “well that wasn’t boring, now was it?”

 

[MaryRita85]

Following Church teachings is optional of course. But then so is going to heaven! We have freewill and can choose what we want to do, however we don’t get to choose the consequences of those decisions.

People have the right to go to Hell if they want to and many are choosing to do so by how they live their lives. God does not want anyone to perish into the fires of hell but leaves it up to us. He put in place his plan of redemption for mankind but it is up to us to accept or reject it.

The time of Mercy is now while we are physically alive. Once we die then comes the time of Justice. (Let’s not have a bunch of wailing whinning and snivelling once we get what we have spent our lives asking for!)

Completely agree!

 

[MaryRita85]

MaryRita, I hope I’m remembering correctly, but from what I recall you and your husband have a decent amount of sexual baggage, right? If I’m remembering right, I don’t think arguing with him about the subject is going to really solve all that much. He’s not going to listen to a theological explanation here. Perhaps the best way of teaching is by showing?

The Church’s teaching on sexuality does not make sex “less fun” or “boring.” And in that vein, I think perhaps it best to show him how “not boring” it can be. Get my drift here?

And then maybe a few minutes later, you say something like… “well that wasn’t boring, now was it?”

Yes, you are remembering correctly. That is what I was thinking and the approach I made this last weekend. I was hoping it wasn’t wrong to make a point, it kinda felt like blackmail but maybe if he sees that we can have an healthy intimate life with just us, doing what is permitted, he will become more comfortable with putting the past behind us and embracing our new life. He said I was leaving him behind, and I said no, I’m trying to pull you along!

 

[The_Bucket]

It’s quite the tricky and delicate situation given the past, so don’t press the issue with things like “I’m pulling you along” or any of that stuff. Maybe phrase it more like “I’m headed on this journey and I want you to come along.” An invitation.

I don’t think “proving a point” is wrong in this context. You’re not blackmailing him, you’re not coercing him. You’re trying to proselytize through your action. There is nothing wrong with that.

Look, consider where you’re coming from and where he is coming from. The man has a lot of healing to do. You do as well, but you know what I mean as far as his healing goes. There’s been a lot of changes going on and it’s been a pretty short period. There are no easy fixes. There is only one real solution here from your perspective and that is patience. A lot of patience. He’s got a ton of stuff to work through and no real anchor.

When he brings up stuff from the past that he wants to do or makes allusions to it, try to say something like “In the past, I was hurting myself. And when I hurt myself, it made it easier to hurt you too. I don’t want to hurt you anymore. If I spiritually hurt myself, it opens up a really big Pandora’s box and I just can’t go down that path any more. I want to protect myself; I know you want to protect me too.”

Something like that. Basically the point you need to make is that he can put himself in a position where he’s protecting you by stepping up to the plate here. All husbands want to protect their wives; he needs to know how he can go about doing that. It may require sacrifice on his part in some areas but he still “gets something out of it” by being the big protector man even if he doesn’t really understand yet how he’s doing that.

 

[MaryRita85]

It’s quite the tricky and delicate situation given the past, so don’t press the issue with things like “I’m pulling you along” or any of that stuff. Maybe phrase it more like “I’m headed on this journey and I want you to come along.” An invitation.

I don’t think “proving a point” is wrong in this context. You’re not blackmailing him, you’re not coercing him. You’re trying to proselytize through your action. There is nothing wrong with that.

Look, consider where you’re coming from and where he is coming from. The man has a lot of healing to do. You do as well, but you know what I mean as far as his healing goes. There’s been a lot of changes going on and it’s been a pretty short period. There are no easy fixes. There is only one real solution here from your perspective and that is patience. A lot of patience. He’s got a ton of stuff to work through and no real anchor.

When he brings up stuff from the past that he wants to do or makes allusions to it, try to say something like “In the past, I was hurting myself. And when I hurt myself, it made it easier to hurt you too. I don’t want to hurt you anymore. If I spiritually hurt myself, it opens up a really big Pandora’s box and I just can’t go down that path any more. I want to protect myself; I know you want to protect me too.”

Something like that. Basically the point you need to make is that he can put himself in a position where he’s protecting you by stepping up to the plate here. All husbands want to protect their wives; he needs to know how he can go about doing that. It may require sacrifice on his part in some areas but he still “gets something out of it” by being the big protector man even if he doesn’t really understand yet how he’s doing that.

That is so true, it is a Pandora’s box. I know he has so much healing to do and it has been a short amount of time. Of all the people that will try lead me to sin, I don’t want him to be one of them! Maybe I will take that approach, I can see him being more receptive to that.Thank you!

 

[R_C]

How would you combat a spouse that says that all the Church teachings are suggestions on how you should live, but if you are married it is ultimately what makes you both happy because divorce is worse than anything else, so if it brings you together who cares?

By pointing out that Christ, who is God and the Giver of life and happiness, has declared that

(1) marriage is indissoluble (thus divorce is not allowed and it a grave offense to God, whether or not a given society at a given time allows it or outlaws it)

(2) the Spirit of Truth that proceeds from God and “whom the world does not know and cannot receive” has revealed that “you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, pillar and foundation of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:15)

Perhaps he might have inadvertently forgotten that marriage is not about being well, but about being together in health and sickness, for better and for worse, until death.

And remember that he needs your help and that he needs to see the immaterial teachings of an abstract church and a distant God shine forth through his loved wife, who is called to be Church and an image of God in Christ, finding peace and happiness in those teachings. If he doesn’t see it, especially through the fundamental mark of the Christian (which is an extraordinary charity rooted on patience and forgiveness), then there you have a way to fulfill your vocation of marriage

 

[The_Bucket]

That is so true, it is a Pandora’s box. I know he has so much healing to do and it has been a short amount of time. Of all the people that will try lead me to sin, I don’t want him to be one of them! Maybe I will take that approach, I can see him being more receptive to that.Thank you!

May I also caution that you not couch this in terms of “sin.” I know he’s familiar with the concept but it will remind him that you are in two different places spiritually. I would note that you damaged yourself emotionally and that you hurt him grievously. As true as it may be, leave the sin part out.

He can understand that you are going through some major changes and don’t want to be dragged back into a lifestyle that set a bad example for your children and led you to seriously wound him and your marriage. If he asks why one thing would necessarily lead to the other, just insist that it’s really an “all or nothing proposition right now” because of the fragile state you’re both in.

I’d still keep showing him that marital relations as proscribed by the Church’s teachings are far from boring and that they are affirming for your relationship. Repetition drives home that lesson; you two don’t need anything else besides your love (and eventually he may come to learn that God’s love comes into play here too!). That’s something, given your history, that he would at least reluctantly endorse.