Teachings of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith Regarding the Godhead as Relates to Biblical Teachings

[ParkerD]

This thread is being started to try and alleviate many misunderstandings regarding LDS beliefs about the Godhead (meaning God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost) and about Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s teachings about the Godhead. It is a personal perspective based on years of study and observation, but should not be considered as any sort of “official” presentation of LDS doctrine. The best sources of gaining wisdom about “official” LDS doctrine are to read the Book of Mormon itself, the Bible itself (especially the King James Version if reading in English), the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price which contains writings of Moses, Abraham, and Joseph Smith–also to read current LDS general conference talks where many doctrinal topics are discussed with relevant examples and experiences relating to the doctrines.

(1) The idea that humankind are created in the image of God is a Biblical doctrine. It is found in Genesis. This doctrine refers to both the man and the woman as being in the image of God when they were created physically. Joseph Smith supported this doctrinal belief, and confirmed it by teaching that God the Father has a “body as tangible as man’s” and is a Being of flesh and bones just as is the resurrected Son of God. This doctrine is Biblically supported by Stephen as he described seeing the Son of God on the right hand of the Father, and also by the prominent Old Testament teaching that the Jews were to worship and believe in the true God who had created them, was their One Savior, and who had a “face” (Exodus 33:20), and if they departed from true worship then their people would one day worship false gods described as: (Deuteronomy 4:28) “And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.”

To worship the true God is to worship a Being who does see, does hear, does eat, and does smell.

(2) The idea that God the Father is a separate Person from God the Son, even though they are “One God” just as Christ showed as He addressed the Father and prayed for us in His great intercessory prayer (see John 17) before His atoning and redeeming sacrifice, is a Biblical doctrine supported by Joseph Smith’s teachings. Joseph Smith taught that God the Father is the “Supreme Ruler of the Universe”. He taught that God the Son is “from all eternity to all eternity” “the same”, is “Alpha and Omega”, the “Beginning and the End”, and that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are One God:

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Mormon 7: 7
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

D&C 20: 28
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end.

(3) The knowledge that God the Father is Spirit and should be worshiped in “spirit and in truth” is a Biblical doctrine confirmed by Joseph Smith’s teachings. To worship God correctly is to worship Him in spirit, with our own spirit worshiping with all our soul and with all our mind and strength. We can make a spiritual connection with Him and with the Holy Ghost (the Holy Spirit) whom we must have with us if we are to properly worship the Father because the Holy Spirit helps us do that and sanctifies our purposes and our intents as we do worship God the Father, if we allow our spirit to lead out in that worship. We are dual beings–a physical being and a spirit being. To worship God fully and correctly we must do so with the concentration and focus of our spirit being, as well as the focus and concentration of our physical being.

(4) Christ is “the Word who was made flesh and dwelt among us” as the Creator, the Redeemer, and thus the “Everlasting Father” and the “Prince of Peace” who is the Father of our salvation and redemption. He becomes our spiritual Father as we place ourselves into His guiding influence when we are spiritually born of Him and become His sons and His daughters, becoming spiritually begotten and thus a “new creature” as Paul taught. He desires to change us through our sincere daily repentance and through the sanctification of the Holy Ghost. They are interested in our purification and our sanctification, in our becoming “perfect in Christ” and thus being enabled to be resurrected into the presence of the Father with no stain of sin upon us and having been thoroughly purged through all the purging processes of this life and the spirit world, which were intended to bring us into conditions where we could indeed be purged of all our imperfections through relying wholly on the merits and grace of Him who is mighty to save.

Peace to all in doing these things. Have a wonderful day.

 

[Third_Day]

Could you more fully explain these teachings of the Mormon religion.

“How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds.” Discourses of Brigham Young, 22

“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans”* Doctrine and Covenants 130.22*

“God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sit enthroned in yonder heavens” Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith 344-345

The Bible “God is spirit “ John 4:24 “A spirit hath not flesh and bones” Luke 24:39

“As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the same time” Doctrines of Salvation 1:38

“The spot chosen for the Garden of Eden was Jackson County, in the state of Missouri, where Independence now stands; it was occupied in the morn of creation by Adam and his associates, who came with him for the express purpose of peopling this earth.” Journal of Discourses, 10:235

Isn’t it Mormon belief that God the Father was once a man that became a God?

God the Father physically had sexual relations with the Virgin Mary

If the Holy Spirit cannot be "everywhere "then how could the Holy Spirit be God.

What proof is there that the Garden of Eden was in Spring Hill Missouri?

 

[Third_Day]

Can you explin the three kingdoms. It is my understand, from speaking to Mormons that when we die we go to a spirit prison. Mormon missionaries, in spirit form, will be there and If I am a sinner, deserving of hell, repent and accept the Mormon faith and if the Mormon Church baptizes me (baptism of the dead) I can avoid hell.

 

[ParkerD]

Can you explain the three kingdoms. It is my understanding, from speaking to Mormons that when we die we go to a spirit prison. Mormon missionaries, in spirit form, will be there and If I am a sinner, deserving of hell, repent and accept the Mormon faith and if the Mormon Church baptizes me (baptism of the dead) I can avoid hell.

Hi, Third Day,

The “three kingdoms” are described as the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Telestial Kingdom. The Celestial Kingdom is the glorious place where those who have been sanctified by the Holy Spirit and been faithful to all their covenants with God will be enabled through the atonement of Christ to dwell in the presence of the Father and the Son. If they had an eternal marriage covenant or had the desire to do so but not the opportunity, their eternal marriage covenant will continue in the Celestial Kingdom with their spouse as their eternal companion and support. If they did not desire eternal marriage but yet made all the other covenants with God, they can dwell in the presence of the Father but will not have an eternal marriage covenant in eternity.

The Terrestrial Kingdom has to do with the glorious place where those will dwell who will be resurrected into the presence of the Son of God (who visits there) but not having made the kinds of covenants required to be in the presence of God the Father or having made the eternal marriage covenant, will dwell for eternity. They will not have suffered the pains of hell in the spirit world, having lived good lives and having used the power of repentance during their life in order to not need to suffer the pains of hell to be cleansed and redeemed from their sins.

The Telestial Kingdom is a place of glory also, more glorious than this life on earth, where those who were sinful and unrepentant during their lives on earth or who committed premeditated murder such as King David will go after suffering the pains of hell in the spirit world. They will have the joyful presence of the Holy Ghost to be with them for eternity, but will not live in the presence of the Son of God or of the Father, although they will know of the love of the Father and the Son for them, and will have been redeemed through the power of the atonement of Christ in order to be redeemed and rescued from hell.

Those who suffer the pains of hell will not be rescued from that condition until the end of the Millenium.

There will be those in the spirit world who are not suffering the pains of hell but who are gaining the blessings and understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness and power of redemption and sanctification. It depends on whether the particular person was repentant during their life on earth, and was honorable in their dealings with others while living their mortal life. There is no “second chance” from the standpoint of seeking exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, in that only those who didn’t have the opportunity during their mortal life to make the covenants required for exaltation, can have that opportunity in the spirit world and have it count toward their gaining exaltation in the spirit world through the temple work done in their behalf which they can choose to accept as spirits.

Have a good day. Your other set of questions will need to wait until I have time (tonight, perhaps) or someone else does.

 

[Catholic20064]

First you have to be able to show me that any teaching in the Book of Mormon is relevant. You have to demonstrate in a real fashion the Book of Mormon is a historical document dealing with people who really existed. The reality is the Book of Mormon has been completely discredited so why do we even care what the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith taught about anything? I don’t have to prove the Book of Mormon is false. You have to show me why I should believe there were really ancient Nephites who came from Israel and were eventually visited by Jesus Christ in the Americas. There is no evidence for that at all.

 

[Third_Day]

=ParkerD;6556836]Hi, Third Day,
The “three kingdoms” are described as the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Telestial Kingdom. The Celestial Kingdom… If they had an eternal marriage covenant or had the desire to do so but not the opportunity, their eternal marriage covenant will continue in the Celestial Kingdom with their spouse as their eternal companion and support.

Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven. How do you explain that? Matt. 22:29-30

The Terrestrial Kingdom has to do with the glorious place where those will dwell who will be resurrected into the presence of the Son of God (who visits there) but not having made the kinds of covenants required to be in the presence of God the Father or having made the eternal marriage covenant, will dwell for eternity.

Is there a biblical reference or anything in Christian tradition for this idea?

The Telestial Kingdom is a place of glory also, more glorious than this life on earth, where those who were sinful and unrepentant during their lives on earth or who committed premeditated murder such as King David will go **after suffering the pains of hell in the spirit world. **They will have the joyful presence of the Holy Ghost to be with them for eternity, but will not live in the presence of the Son of God or of the Father, although they will know of the love of the Father and the Son for them, and will have been redeemed through the power of the atonement of Christ in order to be redeemed and rescued from hell.

THis is confusing. Murderers will have the joyful presence of the Holy Ghost? Hell doesn’t sound all that bad.

Those who suffer the pains of hell will not be rescued from that condition **until the end of the Millenium. **

So hell is not eternal?

There is no “second chance” from the standpoint of seeking exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, in that only those who didn’t have the opportunity during their mortal life to make the covenants required for exaltation, can have that opportunity in the spirit world and have it count toward their **gaining exaltation in the spirit world **through the temple work done in their behalf which they can choose to accept as spirits.

THis I understand is “eternal progression”. Doesn’t this mean that there is no such thing as eternal punishment. Doesn’t this mean that a mass murderer could progress toward happiness in the telestial kingdom?

 

[ParkerD]

First you have to be able to show me that any teaching in the Book of Mormon is relevant. You have to demonstrate in a real fashion the Book of Mormon is a historical document dealing with people who really existed. The reality is the Book of Mormon has been completely discredited so why do we even care what the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith taught about anything? I don’t have to prove the Book of Mormon is false. You have to show me why I should believe there were really ancient Nephites who came from Israel and were eventually visited by Jesus Christ in the Americas. There is no evidence for that at all.

Hi, Catholic20064,
The only relevance of any teaching from God or from prophets of God is its relevance as we live by the teaching. The Book of Mormon teachings are relevant to me, as are the teachings of the Bible, because I have lived by them and found them to bring happiness, joy, peace and peacefulness, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit in making decisions in life as well as in repenting and seeking to be a better person.

I would not expect that the Book of Mormon teachings would be relevant to anyone who did not first of all have a fervent desire to have the Holy Ghost in their life on a personal, ongoing basis day by day. If they have such a fervent desire, then they are going to be in a position to expect that God will provide them more guidance in their life than what they would find just in the Bible alone, since the Bible shows that God reveals more knowledge to people as they have the Holy Spirit with them.

Then, if a person recognizes that the Holy Spirit will indeed guide their life and help them gain wisdom and understanding, then the Bible becomes an open door to gaining new insights including the insight that God could indeed reveal truth to more people than just the Old Testament group of followers and the New Testament group of followers.

By opening that door, a person can read the Book of Mormon and see the application of this principle at work among a small group of people in the Americas. Then those teachings of those additional prophets of God can bless their life and make the atonement of Christ all the more relevant as they recognize the expanded scope of His saving and redeeming mission among all humankind.

But it would take a fervent desire to open such a door–not just some casual curiosity and certainly not a dismissive attitude. This is what Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 2 and 3. It is talked about in Isaiah 29, and in Isaiah 55.

Have a good day. I hope your love for the Bible will bring you much joy and peace in your life as you live its teachings.

 

[Third_Day]

=ParkerD;6557144]The Book of Mormon teachings are relevant to me, as are the teachings of the Bible, because I have lived by them and found them to bring happiness,

I have an old copy of the of the Book of Mormon and it says in 2 Nehpi 30:6 that the if the Lamanites ( a dark skinned people) accepted the book of Mormon they would become “white and delightsome”. The newer copy I have has been changed to “pure and delightsome”. Why the change?

I also have Joseph Smith’s translation of the King James. Why did Smith add so much to it? Did he receive additional “revelation” and that is why his translation has more information?

Mormons teach that the apostle John never died, he is still alive today. If that is true why did he let the Church fall into “apostasy” in the early days. Why didn’t he come forth and take control of the Church?

 

[ParkerD]

Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven. How do you explain that? Matt. 22:29-30

Third Day,
There has been a fairly recent long conversation about that very subject where I participated. I don’t have time to look it up, but will later on. Those verses in Matthew were talking about the Sadducees (or those like them) who didn’t believe in the resurrection and didn’t believe in Christ as Savior and didn’t believe in eternal marriage obviously since they didn’t believe in the resurrection. One needs to spend time looking at the subjects and the verbs in the passage in question, and to understand the use of understood subjects in the original language of the passage.

Is there a biblical reference or anything in Christian tradition for this idea?

It is called the glory of the “moon” by Paul, and is alluded to by John and Paul as they differentiate between “angels” or “ministering spirits” and those who inherit being a “joint heir” with Christ.

THis is confusing. Murderers will have the joyful presence of the Holy Ghost? Hell doesn’t sound all that bad.

So hell is not eternal?

Just to clarify, my opinion is that “mass murderers” will be sons of perdition and will thus never be rescued from hell or the pains of hell, for all eternity. The rescue from hell will be for those who are not sons of perdition. A thousand years would also seem like “eternity” to the person suffering those pains, so it almost becomes a moot point with respect to those who go there although I’m sure it will be an incredible relief to those who are finally rescued, but not all will be rescued.

THis I understand is “eternal progression”. Doesn’t this mean that there is no such thing as eternal punishment.

There are two senses conveyed by the expression “eternal progression.” One is that there is always something good to do, and always will be, so to make “eternal progress” is to go about doing good. Even those in the Telestial Kingdom will go about doing good for eternity.

The other sense is that for the ultimate kind of “eternal progression” which would be to help other spirits grow in a major way through the process of creation and enabling their growth through their own choices on an earth, that kind of eternal progression requires having been given the power to do that by Heavenly Father who holds that power, but would come only for those whom He would trust with that kind of power, knowledge, wisdom and light.

 

[ParkerD]

I have an old copy of the of the Book of Mormon and it says in 2 Nephi 30:6 that the if the Lamanites ( a dark skinned people) accepted the book of Mormon they would become “white and delightsome”. The newer copy I have has been changed to “pure and delightsome”. Why the change?

To clarify that the expression has to do with the inside of a person, not the outside of a person. It is the same sense of “white” as in Isaiah 1:16-18, and has to do with being cleansed from sin through the atonement of Christ and through individual repentance as well as a whole group of people repenting and coming unto Christ as a group.

I also have Joseph Smith’s translation of the King James. Why did Smith add so much to it? Did he receive additional “revelation” and that is why his translation has more information?

He asked questions about what he was reading in the Bible, and yes those questions resulted in him being able to get answers that clarified some passages of Biblical scripture and gave new insights or restored items that had been lost during earlier transcriptions.

Mormons teach that the apostle John never died, he is still alive today. If that is true why did he let the Church fall into “apostasy” in the early days. Why didn’t he come forth and take control of the Church?

John was very much aware that some people were not staying true to the teachings of the early church. That is apparent in the early chapters of the book of Revelation. He also saw in vision that the church would be taken into the wilderness “for a time, and times, and half a time” (see Revelation 12) which matches what Daniel also saw in vision about this subject.

The Holy Spirit was guiding him in his visions and discerning what he should do as a leader of the church on earth. The Holy Spirit did not guide him to ordain new apostles, and he understood why through his vision. He would not seek to contravene that which he had seen in vision. He also saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven with the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on earth, to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. (see Revelation 14:6)

 

[dianaiad]

First you have to be able to show me that any teaching in the Book of Mormon is relevant. You have to demonstrate in a real fashion the Book of Mormon is a historical document dealing with people who really existed. The reality is the Book of Mormon has been completely discredited so why do we even care what the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith taught about anything? I don’t have to prove the Book of Mormon is false. You have to show me why I should believe there were really ancient Nephites who came from Israel and were eventually visited by Jesus Christ in the Americas. There is no evidence for that at all.

It is relevent in explaining why we believe what we claim we do, Catholic20064. You have every right to insist that some proof (either physical or spiritual) be given to you if we are claiming that YOU have to believe as we do, but it is–not logical–to insist upon this if our aim is only to explain to you why WE believe as we do.

I’ve been on this forum now for considerably over a year, and for considerably over 4,000 posts (Dang, I type a lot!) I have very seldom, if ever, seen a Mormon post something from the BoM as a prooftext claiming that YOU must believe this or that. I see posts defending WHAT our beliefs are from people who claim we believe things we do not, or, in the best instances, simple answers to questions about our faith. We simply explain to you why we believe as we do.

…and we believe as we do in part because WE believe that the Book of Mormon is scripture. It is irrelevent to the purpose whether you believe it, just as it is irrelevenat whether the atheist to whom you are explaining why you pray the Rosary believes in God, His Son, or Mary. It doesn’t matter what he believes. You behave as you do because YOU believe.

After all, m’friend, Catholics put Holy Tradition alongside biblical scripture to inform doctrine and practices, and y’all have no problem at all quoting from it, or using it to explain your beliefs. Yet we, as LDS, dismiss it because we believe that most of it is actually apostate teaching. Therefore, while quoting it as an explanation of why you believe as you do is perfectly appropriate. quoting Holy Tradition to us as the reason WE have to believe something is useless.

Diana, who had to rewrite the above several times in order not to get in trouble with the moderators. You pushed quite a button, there.

 

[Third_Day]

=ParkerD;6557235]Third Day,
It is called the glory of the “moon” by Paul, and is alluded to by John and Paul as they differentiate between “angels” or “ministering spirits” and those who inherit being a “joint heir” with Christ.

Why should I interpret 1 Cr. 15:40-42 as referring to “kingdoms?”. Paul is not comparing kingdoms of heaven but different human bodies. Heavenly bodies and earthly bodies as the context shows. Continue to read 42-50 and you can clearly see this. Also the “glory” that Paul is speaking about is the fact that our souls will be rewarded with different degrees of glory according to what we have done on this earth. This passage says nothing about different kingdoms, Celestial, terrestial and telestial.

Just to clarify, my opinion is that “mass murderers” will be sons of perdition and will thus never be rescued from hell or the pains of hell, for all eternity. The rescue from hell will be for those who are not sons of perdition

. Where is the line drawn?. How about an adulterer. Will he/she be able to have happiness in the telestial kingdom?

A thousand years would also seem like “eternity” to the person suffering those pains, so it almost becomes a moot point with respect to those who go there although I’m sure it will be an incredible relief to those who are finally rescued, but not all will be rescued

. So some will be “rescued” from hell? Where does the bible or tradition say anything like that?

There are two senses conveyed by the expression “eternal progression.” One is that there is always something good to do, and always will be, so to make “eternal progress” is to go about doing good. Even those in the Telestial Kingdom will go about doing good for eternity.

Aren’t these folks in the telestial kingdom? Doctrine and Covenants 76:103 “These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers and whoremongers and whosover loves and makes lies”

 

[Third_Day]

=ParkerD;6557314]To clarify that the expression has to do with the inside of a person, not the outside of a person**. It is the same sense of “white”** as in Isaiah 1:16-18, and has to do with **being cleansed from sin through the atonement of Christ **and through individual repentance as well as a whole group of people repenting and coming unto Christ as a group.

I hear what you are saying but is it just a coincidence that this was changed when Blacks were allowed into the Mormon faith?

Why does 1 Nephi 12:23 say that in unbelief “they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filty people, full of idleness…”

The Gentiles were “and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful” 1 Nephi 13:15

A cursing occured "wherefore they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them"

Taking all of the Book of Mormon into consideration, I can’t see how you can say that “white” simply means what is inside the person.

He asked questions about what he was reading in the Bible, and yes those questions resulted in him being able to get answers that clarified some passages of Biblical scripture and gave new insights or restored items that had been lost during earlier transcriptions.

Is His translation of the King James withour error?

 

[lax16]

(1) The idea that humankind are created in the image of God is a Biblical doctrine. It is found in Genesis. This doctrine refers to both the man and the woman as being in the image of God when they were created physically. Joseph Smith supported this doctrinal belief, and confirmed it by teaching that God the Father has a “body as tangible as man’s” and is a Being of flesh and bones just as is the resurrected Son of God. This doctrine is Biblically supported by Stephen as he described seeing the Son of God on the right hand of the Father, and also by the prominent Old Testament teaching that the Jews were to worship and believe in the true God who had created them, was their One Savior, and who had a “face” (Exodus 33:20), and if they departed from true worship then their people would one day worship false gods described as: (Deuteronomy 4:28) “And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.”

To worship the true God is to worship a Being who does see, does hear, does eat, and does smell.

Hi Parker - Can you please tell me what Bible you are quoting from?

From the King James Version: Exodus 33:20
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

From the New American Bible: Exodous 33:20
But my face you cannot see, for no man sees me and still lives.

From the Douay-Rheims Old Testament of The Holy Catholic Bible: Exodus 33:20
And again he said: Thous canst not see my face: for man shalll not see me, and live.

The Book of Exodus is part of the Torah. The Jewish Principles of Faith state that God is Incorporeal and Incomparable. LDS teachings are in opposition to Jewish teachings.

 

[ParkerD]

Hi Parker - Can you please tell me what Bible you are quoting from?

From the King James Version: Exodus 33:20
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

From the New American Bible: Exodous 33:20
But my face you cannot see, for no man sees me and still lives.

From the Douay-Rheims Old Testament of The Holy Catholic Bible: Exodus 33:20
And again he said: Thous canst not see my face: for man shalll not see me, and live.

The Book of Exodus is part of the Torah. The Jewish Principles of Faith state that God is Incorporeal and Incomparable. LDS teachings are in opposition to Jewish teachings.

Hi, Lax16,
I was using the King James Version, and was aware that it says what you cited above. It implies that God has a “face”. (Why else would God say “thou canst not see my face” if He did not have a face to see?)

As far as why Moses was told that “there shall no man see me, and live”, it is important to understand that the natural man cannot be in the presence of God or see the face of God, so Moses was being told this. Man would need to be “carried” into the presence of God or to see His face through being changed by the changing power of the Holy Spirit to change the heart into a spiritually alive, spiritually transformed person to be able to speak with God face to face, as Moses later does.

As far as the Jewish teachings you noted, I hope it will not offend you too much to come to understand that what Moses prophesied would happen if the Jews did not live up to their covenants of obedience, did indeed happen so the prophesy was fulfilled and the teachings you are going to find today do not reflect the teachings given by God to Moses by revelation. Those teachings are a descendant of the original teachings, but are not the same thing as the original teachings.

 

[ParkerD]

I hear what you are saying but is it just a coincidence that this was changed when Blacks were allowed into the Mormon faith?

The 1840 printing of the Book of Mormon had the words “pure and delightsome”. For one to become shaken by this kind of change in a word means that they will certainly be shaken by many other things, and that the kind of relationship with God they are seeking is not a very deep or lasting relationship if it is to be decided upon by the use of a single word.

Why does 1 Nephi 12:23 say that in unbelief “they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness…”

The Gentiles were “and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful” 1 Nephi 13:15

Note also that the book of Ether in the Book of Mormon talks about good groups of people who keep the commandments, and “bad” groups of people who don’t, and about their wars, and that eventually all of the people become “bad” and kill each other off–yet no mention that any of them become “dark-skinned.”

Compare in your mind with Abraham’s specific instruction to his servant that the servant should find a wife for his son Isaac by traveling a great distance and finding a cousin to marry who would thus be “within the covenant”. The servant found Rebekah. She became the wife of Isaac.

The Nephites were being told of a way to guide their children to “marry in the covenant”, by a pretty simple method that admittedly does not make sense to people today, but made sense to the Nephites to whom the instruction pertained. (It does not pertain to anyone today.)

The Gentiles being “white” distinguished them from the remnant of the Lamanites and others in the New World such that Nephi was aware of that difference in their countenance and also that the Gentiles were bringing part of the “light” of the gospel with them to the New World–the Bible.

Is His translation of the King James without error?

I think the King James Version serves the purposes of God very well. I also think the Joseph Smith Translation adds some wonderful insights, and can be studied with a benefit for the one who does so with a sincere heart. However one studies the Bible, I think seeking the guidance and influence of the Holy Spirit is paramount to gleaning the truths and guidance that God delights in His children seeking to find.

 

[Third_Day]

I think the King James Version serves the purposes of God very well. I also think **the Joseph Smith Translation **adds some wonderful insights, and can be studied with a benefit for the one who does so with a sincere heart. .

Did the angel Moroni reveal to Joseph Smith in his translation of the bible that **Jesus said **“for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever, Amen” in Matthew 6:15?

 

[dianaiad]

I have an old copy of the of the Book of Mormon and it says in 2 Nehpi 30:6 that the if the Lamanites ( a dark skinned people) accepted the book of Mormon they would become “white and delightsome”. The newer copy I have has been changed to “pure and delightsome”. Why the change?

Actually, as Parker has mentioned, that ‘change’ from ‘white and delightsome’ to ‘pure and delightsome’ was actually made in the 1840 edition, by Joseph Smith himself, in the second edition of the book. However, that second edition was not used by the European editions, and those editions were used as the basis for the 1879 and 1920 US editions. That means that this change was lost until 1981, when the BoM was gone through to get it to conform to those original sources. We weren’t all that worried about it, since in western culture ‘white’ has always equated to ‘pure.’ In fact, “white” people ain’t white. They come in all shades of a sort of pinkish taupe to a light yellowish brown. Some people want to identify their comparitively pale skin WITH ‘white,’ in an attempt to make themselves feel superior, but the culture that read, and understood, the Book of Mormon were quite aware that "white and delightsome’ was a lot closer to ‘pure and delightsome’ in meaning than “hey, this guy is going to become a blue eyed blond!”

It is to be noted, though, and repeated…Joseph Smith himself changed it from ’
white and delightsome’ to ‘pure and delightsome’ in 1840. Just to clear things up.

I also have Joseph Smith’s translation of the King James. Why did Smith add so much to it? Did he receive additional “revelation” and that is why his translation has more information?

Mormons teach that the apostle John never died, he is still alive today. If that is true why did he let the Church fall into “apostasy” in the early days. Why didn’t he come forth and take control of the Church?

Because he didn’t/ couldn’t/ was told not to…y’know, some tolerance of ambiguity is an essential aspect of religion…and that goes for every faith. Nobody has a more solid understanding of “Mystery” than Catholics do!

 

[Stephen168]

First you have to be able to show me that any teaching in the Book of Mormon is relevant. You have to demonstrate in a real fashion the Book of Mormon is a historical document dealing with people who really existed. The reality is the Book of Mormon has been completely discredited so why do we even care what the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith taught about anything? I don’t have to prove the Book of Mormon is false. You have to show me why I should believe there were really ancient Nephites who came from Israel and were eventually visited by Jesus Christ in the Americas. There is no evidence for that at all.

If the Book of Mormon was true, one would think it would be widely used as an anthropology text book.

 

[Third_Day]

=dianaiad;6557870]It is to be noted, though, and repeated…Joseph Smith himself changed it from ’
white and delightsome’ to ‘pure and delightsome’ in 1840. Just to clear things up.

I find your explanation and Parker"s to be contrary of the Book of Mormon which states:
3 Nephi 2:14-15 “ANd it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites,and their curse was taken from them, and their** skin became white** like the Nephites”

Because he didn’t/ couldn’t/ was told not to…y’know, some tolerance of ambiguity is an essential aspect of religion….and that goes for every faith. Nobody has a more solid understanding of “Mystery” than Catholics do!

“Ambiguity is an essential aspect of religion?” Explain how and why that would be true.
Is the aposlte John alive today?