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Teachings of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith Regarding the Godhead as Relates to Biblical Teachings
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Third_Day
Guest
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It doesn’t say there is ongoing teaching in the spirit world. It says the gospel was preached to them by Christ. This was a one time event. Those in the spirit prison were led by Christ into heaven when Christ ascended into heaven. “when **he ascended on high he led a host of captives **and he gave gifts to men” (in saying, “he ascended,” what does it mean but thathe had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?) Eph.4"7-8
“Repentance opens the prison doors to the spirits in hell; it enables those bound with the chains of hell to free themselves from darkness, unbelief, ignorance, and sin. As rapidly as they can overcome these obstacles—gain light, believe truth, acquire intelligence, cast off sin, and break the chains of hell—they can leave the hell that imprisons them and dwell with the righteous in the peace of paradise” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [1966], 755”
Chapter 47
Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, just like our Heavenly Father. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give his children (see D&C 14:7).
The meaning is still the same. God will never again cause a flood to cover the earth because a man’s heart is evil from his youth. (sinful nature)
That was only for those who lived before the resurrection.
No you don’t. You believe that they can still accept the Mormon gospel and attain happiness after death. even though the word of God says “we die then comes judgment”. There is no second chance to attain happiness as you believe.
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It doesn’t say there is ongoing teaching in the spirit world. It says the gospel was preached to them by Christ. This was a one time event. Those in the spirit prison were led by Christ into heaven when Christ ascended into heaven. “when **he ascended on high he led a host of captives **and he gave gifts to men” (in saying, “he ascended,” what does it mean but thathe had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?) Eph.4"7-8
We die and we are judged. No more time to repent or make decisions. Mormon Doctrine clearly contradicts the word of God
“Repentance opens the prison doors to the spirits in hell; it enables those bound with the chains of hell to free themselves from darkness, unbelief, ignorance, and sin. As rapidly as they can overcome these obstacles—gain light, believe truth, acquire intelligence, cast off sin, and break the chains of hell—they can leave the hell that imprisons them and dwell with the righteous in the peace of paradise” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [1966], 755”
, Gospel Principles states it is much more than that:
Chapter 47
Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, just like our Heavenly Father. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give his children (see D&C 14:7).
- They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
- They will become gods.
- They will have their righteous family members with them and** will be able to have spirit children also**. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
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ParkerD
Guest
Third Day,
Good quotes–thanks.
Death happens. Judgment day comes after death happens. Step one is life. What happens between that step and step two (death) depends on a lot of things, but especially on individual choices. After step two, you are evidently saying that judgment day immediately happens for each person–yet this is clearly not what John taught in the Book of Revelation. He saw in vision that judgment day was sequentially much later than the individual deaths of all the people he was seeing as spirits, if one reads Revelation 20:12 and places it in context of the entire Book of Revelation.
But I’ve only seen the writing of about one Catholic theologian/student (TheosisM) who seemed to care much for the Book of Revelation and its clear teachings, so I am certainly not surprised to find that you hold to what you have written here. It’s fine with me. All the best to you. Have a good weekend, with a peaceful Sabbath upcoming.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
ParkerD, the Final Judgment is when the hearts of all will be bared and nothing will be hidden.
All are judged summarily at the time of death. LDS believe this, otherwise, you would not have a teaching that some are separated out to be taught, others are the teachers, and some are the sons of perdition. There is a judgment being made in order to make this separation.
The argument being presented is that Christ never taught there is a second chance. No. We die and are judged for our lives, at the time of our death. We are not judged for our lives in conjunction with an afterlife.
All are judged summarily at the time of death. LDS believe this, otherwise, you would not have a teaching that some are separated out to be taught, others are the teachers, and some are the sons of perdition. There is a judgment being made in order to make this separation.
The argument being presented is that Christ never taught there is a second chance. No. We die and are judged for our lives, at the time of our death. We are not judged for our lives in conjunction with an afterlife.
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Third_Day
Guest
ParkerD consider another scripture to go along with Hebrews 9:27 which says that we die and we are judged.
Romans 2:16 “on that day when ,according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men”
There are two judgments. A personal judgment when we die (Heb.9:27) and a general judgment at the end of the world when the sins of those sent to hell will be revealed.(Romans 2:16)
This is what Rev. 20:12 is referring to, the general judgment of all the dead.
P
ParkerD
Guest
Third Day,
I certainly agree that God will judge the secret acts of men, and their thoughts and words, and is doing so all the time. On judgment day, those acts or thoughts or words which have been unkind or have had any degree of sinfulness or selfishness in their commission and which have not been repented of, will indeed condemn the sinner and thus we bring our judgment upon ourselves if we do not repent of our sins and become sanctified through the redemption of Christ and the sanctifying influence of the Holy Spirit to purify our souls. The gospel is a gospel of repentance and sanctification. It is a gospel of love, which God lovingly offers to all with no withholding of that love here or in the spirit world.
F
FrancesDS
Guest
Wow…A lot I would like to say but I only have time for so much tonight…
(1) The “ETERNAL” Concept
In Matt 25:46 for example – If you say that the ‘punishment’ here is ‘eternal’ which means God given punishment, then the ‘eternal life’ that is mentioned here also would mean God given life because the same Greek word is used.
This passage in Matthew tells us that the descriptor of the result in the after life for the unrighteous and the righteous is the same – in this case ‘eternal’.
So using the meaning of the Greek word (which is aionios) as you state to mean ‘God-given’, what is the difference between God given life and God given punishment?
If you look elsewhere in Scripture, it will show us the difference between what happens to the unrighteous and the righteous to help us better understand this passage and what ‘eternal’ means.
You can see that the promise to the righteous is LIFE and the promise to the unrighteous is DEATH.
To list only a few:
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).
God has always placed before men two great destinies: life and death; the blessing and the curse (see: Deuteronomy 30:15-20).
The result of being either righteous or unrighteous is either LIFE or DEATH, respectively; it does not tell us the result can be BOTH.
Peter Kreeft (a Catholic author) once wrote: “The height of the mountain is measure by the depth of the valley. The greatness of salvation is appreciated by the awfulness of damnation, what we are saved from.”
With the idea that hell is punishment which you endure for a time and then you are taken to heaven, does not cause much depth between the two options.
AND as in Deuteronomy, man has **one **of two destinies: a blessing and a curse, NOT both.
(2) 1 PETER 3:18-20
There are several issues with this passage.
For one, it is difficult to interpret and over the past 1900 years there have been various thoughts as to what it means. No one knows for sure.
The other thing to point out is that in this text, it NEVER says that the ‘spirits’ Jesus preached to were ever SAVED after he preached to them. It does not say that his preaching would have an effect one way or the other.
It is possible that they were saved; God was preaching to them and can do anything he wants! BUT I think we have to be careful to say that we humans can preach to those in the afterlife and do the same thing by this one passage!
And even if you say that in 1 Peter 4:4-5 is refering to these same ‘spirits’ that were preached to, it does not say that the preaching ‘saved’ them. It says that though they were judged according to the flesh, they were preached to so that they could live according to the God in the spirit. This is along the lines of the reference in the passage in Romans that Third Day had you read. Referencing that there are those who are judged by what is written on their heart. If they did not know God or fully know Him, they would need to be shown the Way…
AND here in 1 Peter 4, it is a past tense ‘preached’ to the dead; not necessarily an ongoing thing. So possibly refering to what Christ was mentioned doing in 1 Peter 3. BUT if so, this is something that Christ did. NO evidence any other human was doing the preaching.
AND if you want to delve into this 1 Peter 3 passage a little further, there has been an interpretation that has surfaced that is interesting to consider.
The first point is that in this passage the Greek word used here is ‘pneumata’. It is not the typical word used to describe the souls of the dead. It is used only in one other verse in Hebrews to refer to the souls of the dead. Elsewhere in Scripture, this Greek word is used to refer to the angels or demons.
There has been some recovery of ancient texts that has opened up some other possibilities for understanding this text. There have been accounts of a Jewish tradition that has rebel angels (called The Watchers) who corrupted the world of men before the flood. These rebel angels were spirits and as such could not be destroyed by the waters of the floods that came. Because of this, these rebel angels were thrown into prison of the underworld by the Lord to await their final doom. With these discovered texts revealing this tradition, this shows that the text here in 1 Peter 3 could be referring to these angels. The ‘spirits in prison’ mentioned in 1 Peter 3 whom Jesus made a proclamation to, could be these fallen angels whose wickedness was closely connected to the flood of Noah. And this would explain why the word ‘pneumata’ was used because this word is more commonly used to depict the angels in Scripture. And would explain WHY this period of time involving Noah was singled out.
With this interpretation, we would understand that when Jesus died, he proclaimed himself Conqueror of evil to the infernal spirits in the prison of the underworld.
But the point is that I think this is a difficult text to fully understand…We need to tread cautiously so that we do not twist it to our own destruction…
Frances DS
(1) The “ETERNAL” Concept
In Matt 25:46 for example – If you say that the ‘punishment’ here is ‘eternal’ which means God given punishment, then the ‘eternal life’ that is mentioned here also would mean God given life because the same Greek word is used.
This passage in Matthew tells us that the descriptor of the result in the after life for the unrighteous and the righteous is the same – in this case ‘eternal’.
So using the meaning of the Greek word (which is aionios) as you state to mean ‘God-given’, what is the difference between God given life and God given punishment?
If you look elsewhere in Scripture, it will show us the difference between what happens to the unrighteous and the righteous to help us better understand this passage and what ‘eternal’ means.
You can see that the promise to the righteous is LIFE and the promise to the unrighteous is DEATH.
To list only a few:
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).
God has always placed before men two great destinies: life and death; the blessing and the curse (see: Deuteronomy 30:15-20).
The result of being either righteous or unrighteous is either LIFE or DEATH, respectively; it does not tell us the result can be BOTH.
Peter Kreeft (a Catholic author) once wrote: “The height of the mountain is measure by the depth of the valley. The greatness of salvation is appreciated by the awfulness of damnation, what we are saved from.”
With the idea that hell is punishment which you endure for a time and then you are taken to heaven, does not cause much depth between the two options.
AND as in Deuteronomy, man has **one **of two destinies: a blessing and a curse, NOT both.
(2) 1 PETER 3:18-20
There are several issues with this passage.
For one, it is difficult to interpret and over the past 1900 years there have been various thoughts as to what it means. No one knows for sure.
The other thing to point out is that in this text, it NEVER says that the ‘spirits’ Jesus preached to were ever SAVED after he preached to them. It does not say that his preaching would have an effect one way or the other.
It is possible that they were saved; God was preaching to them and can do anything he wants! BUT I think we have to be careful to say that we humans can preach to those in the afterlife and do the same thing by this one passage!
And even if you say that in 1 Peter 4:4-5 is refering to these same ‘spirits’ that were preached to, it does not say that the preaching ‘saved’ them. It says that though they were judged according to the flesh, they were preached to so that they could live according to the God in the spirit. This is along the lines of the reference in the passage in Romans that Third Day had you read. Referencing that there are those who are judged by what is written on their heart. If they did not know God or fully know Him, they would need to be shown the Way…
AND here in 1 Peter 4, it is a past tense ‘preached’ to the dead; not necessarily an ongoing thing. So possibly refering to what Christ was mentioned doing in 1 Peter 3. BUT if so, this is something that Christ did. NO evidence any other human was doing the preaching.
AND if you want to delve into this 1 Peter 3 passage a little further, there has been an interpretation that has surfaced that is interesting to consider.
The first point is that in this passage the Greek word used here is ‘pneumata’. It is not the typical word used to describe the souls of the dead. It is used only in one other verse in Hebrews to refer to the souls of the dead. Elsewhere in Scripture, this Greek word is used to refer to the angels or demons.
There has been some recovery of ancient texts that has opened up some other possibilities for understanding this text. There have been accounts of a Jewish tradition that has rebel angels (called The Watchers) who corrupted the world of men before the flood. These rebel angels were spirits and as such could not be destroyed by the waters of the floods that came. Because of this, these rebel angels were thrown into prison of the underworld by the Lord to await their final doom. With these discovered texts revealing this tradition, this shows that the text here in 1 Peter 3 could be referring to these angels. The ‘spirits in prison’ mentioned in 1 Peter 3 whom Jesus made a proclamation to, could be these fallen angels whose wickedness was closely connected to the flood of Noah. And this would explain why the word ‘pneumata’ was used because this word is more commonly used to depict the angels in Scripture. And would explain WHY this period of time involving Noah was singled out.
With this interpretation, we would understand that when Jesus died, he proclaimed himself Conqueror of evil to the infernal spirits in the prison of the underworld.
But the point is that I think this is a difficult text to fully understand…We need to tread cautiously so that we do not twist it to our own destruction…
Frances DS
F
FrancesDS
Guest
(3) Related to #1 above on ‘ETERNAL’…
Matt 3:12 ‘unquenchable fire’ – the Greek word here, asbestos.
I cannot find the use of this word anywhere to mean anything other than unquenchable, inextinguishable.
How can someone be ‘saved’ from something that is unquenchable?
The ‘unquenchable fire’ is another Scriptural reference to show us what happens to the unrighteous…
(4) JUDGMENT
There will be two judgments. The Catholic Church gives them the name ‘particular’ and ‘general’.
The ‘particular’ judgment happens immediately upon death. As others have mentioned previously, Heb 9:27, ‘it is appointed for man to die once and after that judgment’. In Luke 16:19-31, the rich man and Lazarus are judged immediately upon their death and sent to their destinies.
2 Cor 5:10: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.”
At Christ’s Second Coming, we will then have the General Judgment. As in Matthew 25:46, the righteous to eternal life and the unrighteous to eternal punishment. It will not be a matter of ‘condemning again’ or ‘saving again’ if one has already been sent to heaven or hell. BUT all will be revealed to all so that we can all see God’s mercy and his justice. Additionally, those who are still alive at the Second Coming will be judged.
We can see this in Lk 12:2-5: “"There is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed on the housetops. I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body but after that can do no more. I shall show you whom to fear. Be afraid of the one who after killing has the power to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, be afraid of that one.”
Gehenna is the better translation from the Greek (KJV says hell).
Gehenna is a Hebrew word for hell. Gehenna was the name of the garbage dump outside of the holy city which had been used for human sacrifice by pagan tribes, so the Jews used the name for the most degrading thing possible: spiritual garbage.
So one will be judged at death to either Life or death, eternal joy or eternal punishment, spiritual holiness or spiritual garbage. No second chances. As in Luke 12 above, we are judged by what we have done in the body. At the End of Time, the General Judgment will take place and all will be revealed. Everyone living and dead at the time of the Second Coming will be sent to their destinies, either with God or separated from Him, and we will see why each has been given that destiny when all is revealed and we will see God’s perfect mercy and perfect justice.
Frances DS
Matt 3:12 ‘unquenchable fire’ – the Greek word here, asbestos.
I cannot find the use of this word anywhere to mean anything other than unquenchable, inextinguishable.
How can someone be ‘saved’ from something that is unquenchable?
The ‘unquenchable fire’ is another Scriptural reference to show us what happens to the unrighteous…
(4) JUDGMENT
There will be two judgments. The Catholic Church gives them the name ‘particular’ and ‘general’.
The ‘particular’ judgment happens immediately upon death. As others have mentioned previously, Heb 9:27, ‘it is appointed for man to die once and after that judgment’. In Luke 16:19-31, the rich man and Lazarus are judged immediately upon their death and sent to their destinies.
2 Cor 5:10: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.”
At Christ’s Second Coming, we will then have the General Judgment. As in Matthew 25:46, the righteous to eternal life and the unrighteous to eternal punishment. It will not be a matter of ‘condemning again’ or ‘saving again’ if one has already been sent to heaven or hell. BUT all will be revealed to all so that we can all see God’s mercy and his justice. Additionally, those who are still alive at the Second Coming will be judged.
We can see this in Lk 12:2-5: “"There is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed on the housetops. I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body but after that can do no more. I shall show you whom to fear. Be afraid of the one who after killing has the power to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, be afraid of that one.”
Gehenna is the better translation from the Greek (KJV says hell).
Gehenna is a Hebrew word for hell. Gehenna was the name of the garbage dump outside of the holy city which had been used for human sacrifice by pagan tribes, so the Jews used the name for the most degrading thing possible: spiritual garbage.
So one will be judged at death to either Life or death, eternal joy or eternal punishment, spiritual holiness or spiritual garbage. No second chances. As in Luke 12 above, we are judged by what we have done in the body. At the End of Time, the General Judgment will take place and all will be revealed. Everyone living and dead at the time of the Second Coming will be sent to their destinies, either with God or separated from Him, and we will see why each has been given that destiny when all is revealed and we will see God’s perfect mercy and perfect justice.
Frances DS
P
ParkerD
Guest
Frances DS,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
“Eternal life” is certainly “God given life” and is also “the kind of life God has and wants us to have.” “Eternal punishment” is “God given punishment” and is “spiritual death” which is what you would have meant by “death” in some of what you wrote, in that even those who receive the punishment of hell will be resurrected and thus no longer be “dead”, yet they will be spiritually dead unless they repented.
There was purpose in Christ visiting spirit prison. There is application of Isaiah 61:1-2 as a cross reference to 1 Peter 3:18-20. Just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there to be seen.
You would have to understand the LDS concept of “degrees of glory” to understand that I agree with your concept that 1 Peter 3:18-20 is not saying that those spirits were suddenly qualified for heaven.
F
FrancesDS
Guest
But where in Scripture does it tell us there will be more than ONE resurrection?
It does teach about the Resurrection of the Body to be reunited with the soul at the Second Coming.
BUT to say that someone will be ‘dead’, experience ‘spiritual death’, by entering into hell and then can be ‘resurrected’ into one of the ‘degrees of God’s glory’, that would mean there is another resurrection wouldn’t it? Some type of resurrection of the soul from hell into glory?
Where is there evidence of this?
To be continued…
F
FrancesDS
Guest
(continued)…
Also, in my post above I quoted:
2 Cor 5:10: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.”
This is showing Christ judging us based on what we did in this earthly life, not what we do after death.
And what about these passages:
2 Cor 6:2: Paul tells us that here and now is the place and time to work out our salvation.
Luke 16:19-31:
“…But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou **in thy lifetime **receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house…And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
And in the Book of Mormon:
Mosiah 2: 36-39:
"36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do bwithdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—
37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.
38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.
39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment."
2 Nephi 28:22-23:
" 22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment."
1 Nephi 15:28-35:
" 28 And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God.
29 And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell, which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked.
30 And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end.
31 And they said unto me: Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal?
32 And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.
33 Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their dworks; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.
34 But behold, I say unto you, the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.
35 And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the devil is the preparator of it; wherefore the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken."
A lot of quotes but just wanted to get your (name removed by moderator)ut…
I do not see how you can say that once someone is in hell that it is not forever and that they can eventually enter into the glory of God (at any level of glory).
It seems that the Bible and the Book of Mormon say otherwise…
??
Frances DS
Also, in my post above I quoted:
2 Cor 5:10: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.”
This is showing Christ judging us based on what we did in this earthly life, not what we do after death.
And what about these passages:
2 Cor 6:2: Paul tells us that here and now is the place and time to work out our salvation.
Luke 16:19-31:
“…But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou **in thy lifetime **receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house…And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
And in the Book of Mormon:
Mosiah 2: 36-39:
"36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do bwithdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—
37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.
38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.
39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment."
2 Nephi 28:22-23:
" 22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment."
1 Nephi 15:28-35:
" 28 And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God.
29 And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell, which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked.
30 And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end.
31 And they said unto me: Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal?
32 And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.
33 Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their dworks; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.
34 But behold, I say unto you, the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.
35 And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the devil is the preparator of it; wherefore the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken."
A lot of quotes but just wanted to get your (name removed by moderator)ut…
I do not see how you can say that once someone is in hell that it is not forever and that they can eventually enter into the glory of God (at any level of glory).
It seems that the Bible and the Book of Mormon say otherwise…
??
Frances DS
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ParkerD
Guest
Frances DS,
The “spiritual death” that is suffered by those in hell means that they are not yet resurrected, so I am not talking about a second resurrection. It will be their only resurrection when they are resurrected after having suffered the torment and pain of hell for more than a thousand years. I will answer your other questions using your other post as the starting point.
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ParkerD
Guest
Frances DS,
I agree that people will be judged based on what they did in this life, based on their level of knowledge of the plan of salvation meaning that those who know more are held more accountable for their actions, and vice versa.
The opportunity for repentance in the spirit world is shown by 1 Peter 4:6 and 1 Peter 3:18-20 but will always have to do with the level of knowledge of the people and what they did with their knowledge during their mortal life. Those who had full knowledge of the gospel and sinned against that knowledge, will be condemned far more seriously than those who had no knowledge of the gospel. Those who sinned against knowledge to the point of being in “open rebellion against God” have no opportunity for repentance granted, because they chose against it openly with knowledge of what they were doing.
The different “kinds” of resurrection to different glories are shown by Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 15. They are also alluded to by John in the Book of Revelation.
God obviously wants everyone to seek exaltation, and thus emphasizes the glory of the sun always. That is the goal. The others are not the goal. I will add more later. Have a good day.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
St. Peter is talking about Jesus’ descent into hell to teach of Himself to those who had died before His Sacrifice. Christ Redeemed all of mankind, not only those living or yet to be born.
There isn’t a reference to any further teaching of spirits.
There isn’t a reference to any further teaching of spirits.
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ParkerD
Guest
Frances DS,
Here is a depiction in the Book of Revelation that shows that both “death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them,” thus fulfilling Revelation 1:6 and 1:18 and 3:7 in that Christ has the key of David to do that, and thus fulfilling Isaiah 61:1-2. “According to their works” suggests that their works will be evaluated and every person will receive according to that perfect evaluation of how they lived by what they knew–what they did with their lives.
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There is deliverance from hell for some, and a return to hell and “torment for ever and ever” for others along with the devil. Those others would be the sons of perdition.
Regret for not being in the heavenly city will be with anyone who had works that were less than the complete covenant and complete living by their covenant, and those regrets will be like a feeling of “fire”–not a consuming fire, but the fire of regret.
- Status