Technical Sacramental Question

[tmyers]

As Catholics, I believe we are taught that in marriage, a man and woman give themselves completely to each other and become one flesh. Please correct me if I am wrong in this belief, and in regards to the following question(s), please rectify any interpretation errors or misunderstandings that I may be having in regards to this teaching. With this said, here are my question(s):

Does this complete giving of self to other (or act of love) mean both – bodily AND spiritual giving. If so, how far/extensive are the implications?

Essentially, if the husband is ordained into the permanent deaconate, does his wife inadvertently and indirectly become ordained into this office, as well, because of her oneness with her husband? Or is there some unseen interplay here between (or regarding) the eternal/infinite essence of holy orders vs. the temporal/finite nature of marriage?

Similarly, if only one spouse goes to confession, does the other spouse receive the benefits of sacramental absolution because of his/her oneness with the spouse who actually did the act of confessing? Or on the flip side, if one spouse sins, does the other spouse receive the negative effects of that sin on his/her soul, too?

Finally, if one spouse is baptized/confirmed, and the other is not, does the one who is NOT baptized/confirmed receive these sacraments indirectly/inadvertently because his/her oneness with his/her spouse?

Any clarification you can give in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much, and God Bless!!!

 

[tmyers]

As Catholics, I believe we are taught that in marriage, a man and woman give themselves completely to each other and become one flesh. Please correct me if I am wrong in this belief, and in regards to the following question(s), please rectify any interpretation errors or misunderstandings that I may be having in regards to this teaching. With this said, here are my question(s):

Does this complete giving of self to other (or act of love) mean both – bodily AND spiritual giving. If so, how far/extensive are the implications?

Essentially, if the husband is ordained into the permanent deaconate, does his wife inadvertently and indirectly become ordained into this office, as well, because of her oneness with her husband? Or is there some unseen interplay here between (or regarding) the eternal/infinite essence of holy orders vs. the temporal/finite nature of marriage?

Similarly, if only one spouse goes to confession, does the other spouse receive the benefits of sacramental absolution because of his/her oneness with the spouse who actually did the act of confessing? Or on the flip side, if one spouse sins, does the other spouse receive the negative effects of that sin on his/her soul, too?

Finally, if one spouse is baptized/confirmed, and the other is not, does the one who is NOT baptized/confirmed receive these sacraments indirectly/inadvertently because his/her oneness with his/her spouse?

Any clarification you can give in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much, and God Bless!!!

 

[TheDoctor]

I am not sure I fully understand your questions so please forgive me. In marriage, the two become “one flesh” in the sense that they are joined for the good of each other and to lead each other to Heaven however each retains an individual spiritually they and only they are responsible for. The graces I receive from the sacraments are mine individually however becasue my wife and I are “one” I can use those graces in our marriage to bring us both to Jesus but I can’t share them with her in the direct “it is the same as if my wife got the sacrament” sense I think you are alluding to. So:

Essentially, if the husband is ordained into the permanent deaconate, does his wife inadvertently and indirectly become ordained into this office, as well, because of her oneness with her husband?

No

Similarly, if only one spouse goes to confession, does the other spouse receive the benefits of sacramental absolution because of his/her oneness with the spouse who actually did the act of confessing? Or on the flip side, if one spouse sins, does the other spouse receive the negative effects of that sin on his/her soul, too?

No, no.

Finally, if one spouse is baptized/confirmed, and the other is not, does the one who is NOT baptized/confirmed receive these sacraments indirectly/inadvertently because his/her oneness with his/her spouse?

No

 

[1ke]

Essentially, if the husband is ordained into the permanent deaconate, does his wife inadvertently and indirectly become ordained into this office, as well, because of her oneness with her husband?

No.

Or is there some unseen interplay here between (or regarding) the eternal/infinite essence of holy orders vs. the temporal/finite nature of marriage?

No.

Similarly, if only one spouse goes to confession, does the other spouse receive the benefits of sacramental absolution because of his/her oneness with the spouse who actually did the act of confessing? Or on the flip side, if one spouse sins, does the other spouse receive the negative effects of that sin on his/her soul, too?

No.

Finally, if one spouse is baptized/confirmed, and the other is not, does the one who is NOT baptized/confirmed receive these sacraments indirectly/inadvertently because his/her oneness with his/her spouse?

No.

You are on the wrong track here.

 

[Bookcat]

While I agree with the “no’s” given there.

Though one can say “Yes” in some sense to some potential “effects”

There can be spiritual effects say that steam from the increase of grace and of holiness in one spouse – upon the other. As well as there can be spiritual effects due to the sin of the one upon the other.

This is true in the sense of the Communion of the Saints in General --the holiness of some effect the rest of the Body …as well as the sins also effect the body. And I would say that in a way such can effect too the Communion of Persons in Marriage.

Certainly if say a person becomes more and more Holy --such can effect in various ways the spouse and the Family. Likewise if one sins mortally --such can effect in some way the Spouse and the Family.

But the no’s above still stand. The other Spouse is not ordained…or baptized …or absolved etc when their spouse is.

 

[dconklin]

I was made to believe the wife of a prospective deacon had to be “on board” with the process and eventual duties. I remember being told that the wives attend the training weekends.

 

[Corki]

I was made to believe the wife of a prospective deacon had to be “on board” with the process and eventual duties. I remember being told that the wives attend the training weekends.

The extent to which wives are involved varies by diocese. But I think all dioceses require the wife consent to the ordination of her husband to the diaconate and what it will entail.

 

[1ke]

I was made to believe the wife of a prospective deacon had to be “on board” with the process and eventual duties. I remember being told that the wives attend the training weekends.

Well of course. It’s a major committment and the couple must discern this calling together as it will be very impactful on their marriage.

That does not mean that she is ordained.

 

[Verbum]

Hi T,

If there is one thing clear about Christianity, it is personal responsibillity. Certainly their sacramental bond helps the spouses in growing their love and the love of God. But there is no way spouses can be united in merit and/or demerit.

Verbum

 

[DavidFilmer]

The union of marriage in in flesh, not in spirit:

God who created man out of love also calls him to love the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being. For man is created in the image and likeness of God who is himself love. Since God created him man and woman, their mutual love becomes an image of the absolute and unfailing love with which God loves man. It is good, very good, in the Creator’s eyes. And this love which God blesses is intended to be fruitful and to be realized in the common work of watching over creation: “And God blessed them, and God said to them: ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it.’”

Holy Scripture affirms that man and woman were created for one another: “It is not good that the man should be alone.” The woman, “flesh of his flesh,” his equal, his nearest in all things, is given to him by God as a “helpmate”; she thus represents God from whom comes our help. “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.” The Lord himself shows that this signifies an unbreakable union of their two lives by recalling what the plan of the Creator had been “in the beginning”: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.”

CCC 1064-1065​

Sin can impede the spiritual aspect of this unity:

Every man experiences evil around him and within himself. This experience makes itself felt in the relationships between man and woman. Their union has always been threatened by discord, a spirit of domination, infidelity, jealousy, and conflicts that can escalate into hatred and separation. This disorder can manifest itself more or less acutely, and can be more or less overcome according to the circumstances of cultures, eras, and individuals, but it does seem to have a universal character.

According to faith the disorder we notice so painfully does not stem from the nature of man and woman, nor from the nature of their relations, but from sin. As a break with God, the first sin had for its first consequence the rupture of the original communion between man and woman. Their relations were distorted by mutual recriminations; their mutual attraction, the Creator’s own gift, changed into a relationship of domination and lust; and the beautiful vocation of man and woman to be fruitful, multiply, and subdue the earth was burdened by the pain of childbirth and the toil of work.

Nevertheless, the order of creation persists, though seriously disturbed. To heal the wounds of sin, man and woman need the help of the grace that God in his infinite mercy never refuses them. Without his help man and woman cannot achieve the union of their
lives for which God created them “in the beginning.”

CCC 1606-1608​

 

[ConstantineTG]

As Catholics, I believe we are taught that in marriage, a man and woman give themselves completely to each other and become one flesh. Please correct me if I am wrong in this belief, and in regards to the following question(s), please rectify any interpretation errors or misunderstandings that I may be having in regards to this teaching. With this said, here are my question(s):

Does this complete giving of self to other (or act of love) mean both – bodily AND spiritual giving. If so, how far/extensive are the implications?

Essentially, if the husband is ordained into the permanent deaconate, does his wife inadvertently and indirectly become ordained into this office, as well, because of her oneness with her husband? Or is there some unseen interplay here between (or regarding) the eternal/infinite essence of holy orders vs. the temporal/finite nature of marriage?

Similarly, if only one spouse goes to confession, does the other spouse receive the benefits of sacramental absolution because of his/her oneness with the spouse who actually did the act of confessing? Or on the flip side, if one spouse sins, does the other spouse receive the negative effects of that sin on his/her soul, too?

Finally, if one spouse is baptized/confirmed, and the other is not, does the one who is NOT baptized/confirmed receive these sacraments indirectly/inadvertently because his/her oneness with his/her spouse?

Any clarification you can give in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much, and God Bless!!!

They become one flesh, but not one soul. The Sacraments affect us on a spiritual level. So no, you do not share the ordination if your husband gets ordained a deacon or priest. But you of course get to share in his ministry, which is not the Sacramental aspect of it.