Ted Haggard scandal

[carol_marie]

Sometimes I get stuck with the “dogs.” On an airplane there is no place to go. I simply turn their own logic against them.

“Dog?” Ouch.

As a former “dog” I am thankful that the Catholic I first asked questions of like, “Why do you you worship Mary…? Why do you worship statues? Why do you ignore the Bible?” answered me in a charitable & loving way - rather than feeling she was “stuck with me.”

 

[sandmountainsli]

Sometimes I get stuck with the “dogs.”

Start stockpiling boys! They are gearing up for another St. Bartholomews Day!!

 

[mlldrl]

Maybe we should all take some time to pray for the truly innocent people involved in this mess…his wife and kids. Regardless what he may or may not have done the family didn’t do anything to deserve this.

YIC,
Michael

 

[Steadfast]

I just want to say that although I am no fan of Haggard, I am very pleased by the charitable response his situation has gotten from the Catholics on this board.

By and large, you’ve responded as befits Christians.

It does seem odd to me that, given the troubles of your own leadership in this country that some of you are “interested” in picking the speck from the eye of others.

I am extremely gratified that such voices are a small minority here.

 

[carol_marie]

I just want to say that although I am no fan of Haggard, I am very pleased by the charitable response his situation has gotten from the Catholics on this board.

By and large, you’ve responded as befits Christians.

It does seem odd to me that, given the troubles of your own leadership in this country that some of you are “interested” in picking the speck from the eye of others.

I am extremely gratified that such voices are a small minority here.

I agree - because if it turns out that the accusations against Pastor Haggard are true, it doesn’t make what some of our Priests did any less horrible & disgusting.

 

[oldfogey]

I hope that, if this man’s soul is in jeopardy, he will reform and be able to heal his family.

An earlier poster remarked how protestant ministers involved in previous scandals seemed to disappear and no more was heard from them. I think it’s important to point out the difference here in what has happened in the Catholic Church. Abominating priests seemed NEVER TO GO AWAY OR REFORM. Contrast the shame someone would have in telling their wife and family what they had done, and the accounts of multiple times priests were reported and answered their bishop’s inquiries and went out and molested again. And the bishops, our shepherds, let them do it.

God bless and keep strong priests like Cestusdei, who have to pay the price for being associated with unrepentent sinning priests.

 

[Island_Oak]

…Is it gloating that the next time I am on a plane and a fundamentalist tells me Catholicism is false because of scandals and priests are perverts to say, “well how do you explain Ted Haggard then and what does his situation say about fundamentalism?”

Perhaps not gloating, but certainly defensive and argumentative at best and juvenile at worst. Not exactly the example a man in a collar should be setting. If you feel that under attack, consider travelling in civilian clothes–beter that you were anonymous than offensive.

 

[Eden]

Start stockpiling boys! They are gearing up for another St. Bartholomews Day!!

The St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre of Huguenots was a political event that happened in France during a civil war. I don’t see the connection between this event and Cestusdei talking about turning their own logic back on rude people.

 

[twiggymoo]

When I saw an article a few years ago about Mr Haggard featured in Christianity Today as the new president of the National Association of Evangelicals - I was skeptical of him then. Another snake oil salesman in charge of a megachurch. Big deal. A scripture comes to mind about ravenous wolves coming in among the sheep. I think his type of “christianity” is false. I am not happy that he is in trouble - I am sad that the cause of Christ is put to shame with yet another story of a supposed Christian leader falling in sin. If what they have cannot keep them from these things - why would anyone want it? What do they follow? I realize we are all sinners, I got that. In the CT article that featured him - he looked smug and self-confident - like he was forging a new path for the church that nobody thought of before.

Sad

 

[Contarini]

Is it gloating that the next time I am on a plane and a fundamentalist tells me Catholicism is false because of scandals and priests are perverts to say, “well how do you explain Ted Haggard then and what does his situation say about fundamentalism?” I think that is a fair response and would be interested to hear their answer. At the very least it will make them think.

They will think that you are an ignorant jerk. A fundamentalist would see someone like Haggard as a false prophet and wouldn’t be surprised that he is sexually immoral.

I am going to play prophet again, this scandal will cause evangelicals to begin to reconsider the Maria Monk style of attacks on us.

I doubt it. First of all, it’s mostly fundamentalists, rather than evangelicals more broadly speaking, who use these sorts of tactics. And people who stoop to throw dirt rarely stop to ask whether they are being logical or consistent in doing so.

The relevant question is–why are you so willing to get down there in the mud along with them?

Edwin

 

[Eliza10]

Is it gloating that the next time I am on a plane and a fundamentalist tells me Catholicism is false because of scandals and priests are perverts to say, “well how do you explain Ted Haggard then and what does his situation say about fundamentalism?”.

I guess thats a fair response. The facts are the Protestant pastors have more incidents of pedophilia, and who has even more is public school teachers. That University of Pennsylvannia recent study said so.

It is hard to be in your position taking all this blame for what a few have done and the media has magnified to the point of having it look like all priests are suspect. But we are supposed to treat others as we would like to be treated, right? So your response should be not “in kind”, but instead it should be what you think a “right” response should be.

I’m not sure mentioning Ted Haggard by name is a good idea. I think it would be better to help the person clarify his own statements. “So you think that because there are some pedophile priests than all priests are suspect? Do you think all Evangelical pastors and all school teachers are also suspect? Do you homeschool your children to protect them from the teachers?”

I don’t know that that is the best respose, but mentioning Teds name doesn’t seem right.

Its hard to be holy without faith AND the grace of the Sacraments. I feel sorry for the man of faith who, with the graces of the Sacraments that Jesus meant for all Christians to have, may not have sinned so terribly. That Satan won a victory with a man who identified with Jesus is not something we should “use” for any purpose of our own, it seems.

 

[cestusdei]

carol, I was responding to the “lie down with dogs get fleas” remark.

All, I think it is uncharitable to see someone in a collar and shriek “pedophile” at the top of your lungs on a busy street. However, I guess some of you see no problem with it. I, on the other hand, am stuck responding to such things. It is only fair if they bring the issue up to put the ball into their court. Keep in mind, THEY are the ones who bring this stuff up, not me. I refuse to “hide” and not wear my collar. I understand that some guys do and I can’t blame them. But I also won’t let a fundamentalist “hide” from his own scandals if he wants to play that game.

 

[Contarini]

carol, I was responding to the “lie down with dogs get fleas” remark.

All, I think it is uncharitable to see someone in a collar and shriek “pedophile” at the top of your lungs on a busy street. However, I guess some of you see no problem with it.

What post has given you this impression? Are you not, Father, violating the law of charity by suggesting such a thing, when no one on this forum has defended the behavior of these deluded street preachers?

I, on the other hand, am stuck responding to such things. It is only fair if they bring the issue up to put the ball into their court. Keep in mind, THEY are the ones who bring this stuff up, not me. I refuse to “hide” and not wear my collar. I understand that some guys do and I can’t blame them. But I also won’t let a fundamentalist “hide” from his own scandals if he wants to play that game.

But you have yet to explain why a fundamentalist would see Ted Haggard as one of his own.

Edwin

 

[Kendy]

carol, I was responding to the “lie down with dogs get fleas” remark.

All, I think it is uncharitable to see someone in a collar and shriek “pedophile” at the top of your lungs on a busy street. However, I guess some of you see no problem with it. I, on the other hand, am stuck responding to such things. It is only fair if they bring the issue up to put the ball into their court. Keep in mind, THEY are the ones who bring this stuff up, not me. I refuse to “hide” and not wear my collar. I understand that some guys do and I can’t blame them. But I also won’t let a fundamentalist “hide” from his own scandals if he wants to play that game.

I think it’s great that you wear your collar, but I hope that you use your collar to exhibit Christian love in the face of antagonism.

Kendy

 

[cestusdei]

Contrari, Haggard was head of the evangelicals association. He is as close to a pope as they get. I never let them weasel out of these things by claiming the guy wan’t a fundamentalist when in fact he was.

I don’t think it is uncharitable, since they brought the issue up, to challenge them on the same grounds.

 

[Ahimsa]

Latest press release.

Excerpt:

November 4, 2006

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New Life Church
Colorado Springs, Colorado

We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard. Our investigation and Pastor Haggard’s public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct…

 

[JudieK]

All, I think it is uncharitable to see someone in a collar and shriek “pedophile” at the top of your lungs on a busy street. However, I guess some of you see no problem with it. I, on the other hand, am stuck responding to such things. It is only fair if they bring the issue up to put the ball into their court. Keep in mind, THEY are the ones who bring this stuff up, not me. I refuse to “hide” and not wear my collar. I understand that some guys do and I can’t blame them. But I also won’t let a fundamentalist “hide” from his own scandals if he wants to play that game/QUOTE)

Father- I’m so sad that people see you on the street and yell things at you. It grieves my heart. I pray for all the holy priests who lead our church in such a hostile world. On the other hand… I remember Jesus saying something like “if they hate me, imagine how much they will hate you. Count is as joy to be persecuted for my sake” or something like that (I don’t have my Bible at hand). It may be a cross to bear, yet it is a priviledge to be mocked and persecuted because it unites you to the cross of Jesus. The other priest that hide are missing an opportunity to walk boldly in Christ’s light.

As for Ted Haggard… he is human and he had sinned like we all do. I have seen him interviewed on TV and he did seem annoyingly smug to me. I think what bothers me the most is that the Moral Majority and religious Right seem so set on “this is wrong, this is a sin, this is forbidden” without the pastoral compassion (and Christlike compassion) that says “yes, this is a sin, but the Lord of Mercy understands the human struggle against sin is full of potholes and detours, yet He is always ready to pick you up again, dust you off, and let you try again.” That’s what I love about the sacrament of Reconcilliation. Just my thoughts. My prayers are for all of them during this difficult time.
PS- how do you guys get the quotes from other posters in the little boxes?

 

[Saint_Michael]

The Catholic Church could learn a thing or two from the New Life Church about accountability.

Let’s all pray for this guy, using methamphetamines and engaging in gay sex is very very dangerous. Let’s pray Ted Haggard and his poor wife don’t have HIV or Hepatitus C.

This scandalizes all Christians, none of us should be gloating over this.

Cestusdei, if a bunch of idiots scream pedophile at you remember this verse:

"Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Is it gloating that the next time I am on a plane and a fundamentalist tells me Catholicism is false because of scandals and priests are perverts to say, “well how do you explain Ted Haggard then and what does his situation say about fundamentalism?” I think that is a fair response and would be interested to hear their answer. At the very least it will make them think.

A few weeks ago while walking down the street a group of street preachers saw my collar and began shrieking “pedophile!” You can imagine the scene. Today they might not do that.

I am going to play prophet again, this scandal will cause evangelicals to begin to reconsider the Maria Monk style of attacks on us.

Hi,
Are you a priest?

 

[JudieK]

St. Michael- it appears we had the exact same thought at the exact same time!