Ted Haggard scandal

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Catherine_S said:
Bad Judgement :hmmm:?

That kind of softens the betrayal of his wife, his children, members of his christain community and last but not least his
boyfriend (his preaching against same sex marriage is what triggered his sex partner going public :ehh: ). Hell hast no fury like a women scorned… ops… man scorned!!!

As always, we find the BIG lie and an equaly **BIG cover up. ****The father **of all lies is indeed at work in our day!

We will be hearing plenty more about this kind of deceit…the Lord is housecleaning and the idols are falling like flies.
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I didn’t mean to soften what he did in any way. What he did was horribly wrong and his family and congregation are to be prayed for. That still doesn’t change the fact that making blanket statements about a particular religion/denomination because of the evil behavior of a few of its leaders is ineffective at best.
 
Hang in there, Cestusdei! Yes, the preacher probably did a terrible thing. Yes, some of priests have done the same. Yes, we should pray for all of them. But yes, I’m glad to see in the drive-by media, that it just isn’t a Catholic problem, it is widespread and touching all churches. I was impressed by the speed of the manner this was taken care of.
 
davy39 said:
Hang in there, Cestusdei! Yes, the preacher probably did a terrible thing. Yes, some of priests have done the same. Yes, we should pray for all of them. But yes, I’m glad to see in the drive-by media, that it just isn’t a Catholic problem, it is widespread and touching all churches. I was impressed by the speed of the manner this was taken care of.
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Two adults having sex - apples
Priests molesting children - oranges
 
dapper said:
Two adults having sex - apples
Priests molesting children - oranges
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Ok dapper what’s your point?
Just like to keep it going? Do you have a point? Do you want to contribute to this thread? Or is this just a jab? So is it only Priest’s who have molested children? Is that what you are saying?
 
Stephen_C said:
Ok dapper what’s your point?
Just like to keep it going? Do you have a point? Do you want to contribute to this thread? Or is this just a jab? So is it only Priest’s who have molested children? Is that what you are saying?
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To elaborate, I was wanting to note that the two situations should not be compared. The binding aspect of it all is that, yes, all churches have shepherds that say one thing and do another, but please, lets not compare what this man did to what some priests have done to children. They’re different and if I have to elaborate as to why they are, I will, but you may not like the details.

Hmmm…does it feel like a jab? 👍
 
dapper said:
To elaborate, I was wanting to note that the two situations should not be compared. The binding aspect of it all is that, yes, all churches have shepherds that say one thing and do another, but please, lets not compare what this man did to what some priests have done to children. They’re different and if I have to elaborate as to why they are, I will, but you may not like the details.

Hmmm…does it feel like a jab? 👍
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Ok, fair enough. I think this was stated by myself and others earler in this thread.
 
I want to take a moment and step in here and remind everyone of a couple of things.

First of all, this is a weighty discussion. There are many comments offered that have basis in emotion only. If you are unwilling or unable to have an intellectual conversation on this topic, please refrain from posting. Emotional comments only serve to incite those who have opposing opionions. We are not here to incite, but to inform and learn.

Second of all, not every post that contains items you disagree with will be delivered from an emotional standpoint. Just because you disagree with whats being said, doesn’t mean it isn’t valuable or charitable.

Please continue the discussion with these points in mind, and remember to check your posts for charity and content before hitting send.

God bless-

Rachel
 
johnnyjoe said:
Cestus,

You have to admit, this man’s letter to his concregation is a beautiful piece of public confession. I am greatly encouraged that the typical “once saved always saved” brittleness of American Evangelicalism is finally coming down to it’s rightful end. He stood up and took the heat, naming his sins in public. He should be admired for the honest and Christian reaction to his “private” sin (no sins are really private, now are they padre…).

My main concern now is that he is going to “…submit to the oversight of Dr. James Dobson, Pastor Jack Hayford, and Pastor Tommy Barnett. Those men will perform a thorough analysis of my mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical life. They will guide me through a program with the goal of healing and restoration for my life, my marriage, and my family.”. Dr. Dobson has not rejected contraception, and still advocates that masterbation is “healthy”. I am not sure Pastor Haggard is going to get the counsel he really needs…
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Yes, we can learn a lot from them, but Ted needs our prayers.

Kendy
 
I think the one important thing we should all learn here is that anyone in a leadership position is especially vulnerable. And, if they can be seduced into betraying their true values, then then become the a millstone around the neck of their religion, political party, or whatever group they can be tied to. I think it is no surprise that this was brought out right before the election.

I suspect that in his preaching and public activism Ted Haggard was saying what he really thought, but was tempted (maybe even cleaverly seduced) to experiment. In my mind I could see the drugs coming first and numbing his conscience so he was then willing to set his morals aside.

The very sad thing is a person leaves himself open to ridicule by those promoting the very values he has worked againt, and even to being used as a rallying point for them and against his true values. A godly person who falls brings dishonor to God and to all God’s children when he faces a public disgrace such as this.

I feel very sorry for Ted’s wife and children and I pray for them.

Claudine
 
ClaudineJohnson said:
I think the one important thing we should all learn here is that anyone in a leadership position is especially vulnerable. And, if they can be seduced into betraying their true values, then then become the a millstone around the neck of their religion, political party, or whatever group they can be tied to. I think it is no surprise that this was brought out right before the election.

I suspect that in his preaching and public activism Ted Haggard was saying what he really thought, but was tempted (maybe even cleaverly seduced) to experiment. In my mind I could see the drugs coming first and numbing his conscience so he was then willing to set his morals aside.

The very sad thing is a person leaves himself open to ridicule by those promoting the very values he has worked againt, and even to being used as a rallying point for them and against his true values. A godly person who falls brings dishonor to God and to all God’s children when he faces a public disgrace such as this.

I feel very sorry for Ted’s wife and children and I pray for them.

Claudine
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This, ladies and gentlemen is the correct Christian response.

The idea that this incident is or should be fodder for polemics is the wrong one.

And, by the way, priestly sex abuse doesn’t prove the RCC is wrong and examples should not be used polemically either.

If other people want to do that, their natures are betrayed and they have their reward.
 
Steadfast said:
You act like I’ve been doing this by myself here.

Have you completely missed the seven or so occasions where CestusDei has demanded satisfaction wrt my claim (and others’) that he was gloating?

Or does he get a pass?

This was necessary. CestusDei has asked to be shown where he gloated. I believe I’ve done so but I’ve also expressed my willingness to let it go if he won’t accept it.

If you think this is about me you’re either sadly mistaken or you haven’t been paying close enough attention. In either case you should refrain from comment. You know the old saying, “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”?

I’ve conceded everything here and am only offering him the opportunity to recover some semblance of charity in this exchange by giving him the chance to retract his more immoderate claims even as I have been willing to withdraw my own and indeed have done so.

This is a crisis moment for this thread and, dare I say it, for this board. Please refrain from piling on, it’s both counterproductive and distracting.
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As I asked before, please take a deep breath. There is a wife and five children who will have to live with this man’s sins for the rest of their lives. And the fall of their leadership is a defining moment for the NAE. This is a topic worthy of discussion in this “Non-Catholic Religions” forum and we should be able to discuss it in this thread. I’ve only asked that you not continue to turn this into a thread about you. If that makes me a fool, then let me be guilty.
 
Eden,

You are, of course, quite right. I have done my fair share in derailing this thread, but I hope you can see that it came about because the OP is morally flawed and that the opinion of the writer of the OP is also morally flawed since he has stated repeatedly that he is glad that he now has ammunition to use against those who jump on him about the priestly sex abuse scandal.

I tried to go back and edit out the fool comment but it was too late. Sometimes I get too cute for my own good. It was unnecessary and I’m sorry for including it.
 
catsrus said:
:eek: And you know that he is…because???
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I think that a** new thread **should be started for Steadfast and Cestusdei regarding their “gloating” and everything else. This is getting pretty tired. :sleep:

At this point, I am surprised that Rachel Malloy has not locked down the thread. :whacky:
 
dapper said:
I think that a** new thread **should be started for Steadfast and Cestusdei regarding their “gloating” and everything else. This is getting pretty tired. :sleep:

At this point, I am surprised that Rachel Malloy has not locked down the thread. :whacky:
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I started a thread for Cestusdei and Steadfast in the Watercooler Section. Take it over there boys.

**Steadfast and Cestusdei duke it out
Today 11:38 am

by dapper **
 
dapper said:
I started a thread for Cestusdei and Steadfast in the Watercooler Section. Take it over there boys.

**Steadfast and Cestusdei duke it out **
**Today 11:38 am **

**by dapper **
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:rotfl:

That is too funny. I think Cestusdei has since walked away though.
 
cestusdei said:
Is it gloating that the next time I am on a plane and a fundamentalist tells me Catholicism is false because of scandals and priests are perverts to say, “well how do you explain Ted Haggard then and what does his situation say about fundamentalism?” I think that is a fair response and would be interested to hear their answer. At the very least it will make them think.

A few weeks ago while walking down the street a group of street preachers saw my collar and began shrieking “pedophile!” You can imagine the scene. Today they might not do that.

I am going to play prophet again, this scandal will cause evangelicals to begin to reconsider the Maria Monk style of attacks on us.
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CestusDei,
I love priests. They give up their whole lives for God. People do not realize it isn’t easy becoming one. It’s not like you just take 2 steps up on a podium and lie to people. Their is extensive training. It is so Holy when the priests prostrate themselves for Our Lord.

FYI–I mentioned this on another thread and I will mention it again.
No attorney has made more money than Jeff Anderson. 3 years ago it was estimated by The Associated Press that he’d won 60 million in settlements from Catholic dioceses. There were many innocent priests but secular TV won’t reveal that. Jeff Anderson is a non-Catholic as were all the attorneys representing these so-called “victims.” Some committed suicide, not from the molestation, but from the guilt of the innocent priest.
Please remember me in your prayers CestusDei, and I will pray for you.
 
Steadfast said:
Eden,

You are, of course, quite right. I have done my fair share in derailing this thread, but I hope you can see that it came about because the OP is morally flawed and that the opinion of the writer of the OP is also morally flawed since he has stated repeatedly that he is glad that he now has ammunition to use against those who jump on him about the priestly sex abuse scandal.

I tried to go back and edit out the fool comment but it was too late. Sometimes I get too cute for my own good. It was unnecessary and I’m sorry for including it.
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CestusDei certainly had no intentions of being glad and he isn’t one to use ammunition against someone. He is simply a man of God. You are not a Catholic, therefore you wouldn’t understand.
 
bella5110 said:
CestusDei certainly had no intentions of being glad and he isn’t one to use ammunition against someone. He is simply a man of God. You are not a Catholic, therefore you wouldn’t understand.
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What do you mean?

Help me understand how it’s permissible for anyone, man of God or not, to use the misfortune of another as a tool to derail the attacks of others.

And why would being Catholic change anything?
 
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