Teen Confirmation, "I know it all."

[mamamarcie]

Hi everybody! My name is Marcie, and while this opportunity to catechize isn’t my own, I am writing on behalf of a fellow youth minister who has encountered a ‘problem’, per se, with a 17-year old (HS junior) whose attitude in the Confirmation prep class is, well, less than stellar. It’s in the basement, actually. He professes to “know it all” and thinks his Confirmation preparation can take place on a single Saturday, because after all, he has been an altar server since 3rd grade, and he knows it all. Those were his words to me last week, and to his small group leader last night.

This particular class of confirmation candidates (all at least high school juniors) have very poor attitudes about, it seems, anything and everything that pertains to the Faith. And the fact that they do not mind sharing/showing their apathy toward their Catechists (to the point of being downright disrespectful) is very sad and disheartening to me. Selfishly, I’m glad I’m not one of those Catechists; however, they are all friends of mine, and this situation weighs heavily upon my heart. With all of that in mind, I am writing to this forum in hopes of gleaming some outside insight into situation, along with a plausible approach to making these swords into plowshares.

FWIW, the pastor of our cluster (2 parishes) believes that Confirmation is a true rite, and little to no prep is necessary. However, it is the bad attitudes of this entire class (with the exception of 2 students–no joke) that is truly testing that team’s patience and their commitment to continue in this ministry.

TIA so much for any insight you can provide! Take care, enjoy the rest of your day and praised be Jesus Christ! (Now and forever!)

Peace be with you,
-Marcie

 

[1ke]

Sacramental prep and regular catechesis are two different things.

The priest and the kid are right about sacramental prep. That should be *proximate *to the sacrament and it should be focused on the sacrament. And, it could take about 1 day if done on a Saturday. It could take about 6 weeks if done in weekly sessions.

That is *not *the same thing as the on-going catechesis/religous education classes, which of course should be separate from sacramental preparation. Of course we all grow and continue to learn (if we apply ourselves) because the faith is very deep. We can study for years and not “know it all” because there is much to know.

Perhaps what the class is telling their leaders is that they are *bored *because indeed they have heard this all before.

Are they being challenged? Are they being introduced to more *advanced *concepts, being *challenged *to more intimate relationship with God and more difficult decision-making in moral areas and in living the faith? Or are they doing the same boring worksheets they have done in religious education class for the last 10 years?

Maybe it’s time to examine your program, how it is organized, what books/content you are covering, how you are distinguishing religious education from sacramental prep (if you aren’t, you should be).

And, what the heck is a small group leader? What do they do? What are “small groups” for? Perhaps if you explain the content of your program and how it is run we can have a better idea of things.

Also, can you give any specific behavior examples of students? “Bad attitude” is rather vague.

 

[CDNowak]

There are many things I could suggest but would not help your friends in the short term (eg.: since your pastor is correct that the preparation necessary for Confirmation is much less than common practice: lowering the age of confirmation by about a decade, incrementally of course; taking a radically individual approach to preparation for the Sacrament [that is prepare the individuals, not the class]).

Another question is are you trying to beat the sword into plowshares (as you suggested)? If so, particularly with young men (make no mistake, you are not dealing with children at this point) perhaps the means ought to be “iron sharpens iron”.

Overall though, 1ke is right about the quickest fix we can suggest with such limited information about the program.

---

A personal note, I sympathize very much with the know-it-all. I was homeschooled through seventh grade and knew as much as, if not more, than my teachers in CCD and eighth grade about Catholicism. I even had classes in seminary where I could have argued finer points with the professor.

 

[puzzleannie]

the answer to this student, and to the class at large, is that the bishop has set down what shall comprise confirmation preparation, you (the youth minister, DRE, catechist, whoever has been entrusted with this duty by the pastor) has a mandate to carry out the preparation program along those rules, and has no authority to change them. You may work within the choices of materials and programs approved by the bishop but do not have authority to dispense any candidate from the program established by the diocese.

the candidate is free to approach the diocesan office of youth ministry, of catechetics, of liturgy and sacraments, or whoever the bishop has given authority over confirmation prep, and demonstrate that this particular candidate is properly prepared and worthily disposed for the sacrament. If the candidate can do this at the bishop’s satisfaction–or at your pastor’s satisfaction if he agrees to listen to the candidate’s case–then they can give approval for him to approach the bishop for the sacrament at the next available date.

You, the DRE, YM or anyone else do not have authority to determine who will or who will not be confirmed. Your responsibility is to tell the pastor who has completed the confirmation program and given evidence of intent and desire for the sacrament. The pastor must attest to the bishop the readiness of all in his parish who are requesting the sacrament, and he as the right to assure he can make that promise in good faith.

what this or any candidate does not have the right to due is disrupt class, derail the program, dissuade other candidates, get in the way of their learning and spiritual growth, and waste the time of good volunteers and dedicated staff.

Short answer: arrange an interview with the pastor, candidate, sponsor and parents, have the catechist or director be prepared to state why he has doubts about this particular candidate’s readiness and disposition, and let the pastor decide. Get it off your desk onto the pastor’s desk.

That being said, the next move is not in your province, but in the lap of the YM. There needs to be a sit down with the pastor where he gives clear direction on why he hired the YM and what his duties are with respect to confirmation prep, and what program the pastor wishes to follow. At this time the YM should make clear his concerns about this group in general, what they need, what they lack, attitude etc.

 

[mamamarcie]

The program being used is Life Teen’s “Oneight.” The class meets twice monthly, outside of weekly catechesis/Life Nights, but during the same time as our Life Nights. The small groups consist of the class equally divided up with an adult Catechist who leads outlined discussion which allows for more intimate catechesis, and more importantly, faith sharing among the Candidates. Small groups typically gather toward the end of each session. Let me just say that this program, in one form or another (because Life Teen just upgraded its program is 2008 to its present form), has been extremely successful up to this point. I would also like to point out that youth group/catechesis/Life Night attendance among this class is extremely poor—most have only attended 1 or 2 Life Nights since the program kicked off in mid-September. Their bad attitudes are just that—bad. As stated previously, almost all in this class has been outright disrespectful to the Catechetical team. Talks/phone calls to/with parents from the youth ministry coordinator appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The attitude of the parents contacted was that of, ‘My angel would never behave like that!’ Heh. Yeah, right.

I’m not so old that I cannot relate to the ‘boredom’ these young people feel, but OTOH, when I was bored out of my skull and in such a situation, I NEVER disrespected a teacher, catechist, or any person in authority. I sat still and kept my mouth shut because that’s what my parents taught me! My husband and I taught our three children to be the same—after all, it is the fourth commandment of God! And FWIW, while only one of our three children chose to be confirmed and still is a practicing Catholic at the age of 24, her younger sister and brother decided they were not ready/willing to make that commitment. My husband and I are okay with that (not overjoyed, but okay), because that is the choice they made. When they’re ready to make that commitment, God will be waiting with open arms; I know that with all that I am.

But I digress…

I have to admit in the two responses received thus far that I am shocked at what I perceive as a lack of importance placed on the receiving of this Sacrament. This is this Sacrament where our young people should be free to choose to say, “YES, LORD! I will follow You and Your Church all the days of my life!!!” There are enough half-baked Christian Catholics roaming this earth. We, as a Catechetical team, don’t want to contribute to this ever-growing, sad statistic. I just heard Fr Corapi just say on EWTN, “We reap what we sow.” We don’t want those seeds falling on the path or rocky ground. We are trying to plant the seeds of faith in our teens in the rich soil that is buried deep within each one’s soul. We want our teens to be as holy as they can be. We want them to live with the intensity of a son or daughter of God. IMNSHO, there is NO WAY they can be taught these principles and matters of faith in a single day setting. That is like slapping Jesus right in the face. And that’s not cool.

 

[Penitant]

I have to admit in the two responses received thus far that I am shocked at what I perceive as a lack of importance placed on the receiving of this Sacrament. This is this Sacrament where our young people should be free to choose to say, “YES, LORD! I will follow You and Your Church all the days of my life!!!”

The sacrament of Confirmation is not them confirming their faith or their willingness to follow Christ. It confirms and strengthens the graces of baptism. Most of the Eastern Church (if not all of it) practices infant confirmation (although usually called Chrismation).
Can. 879:

The sacrament of confirmation strengthens the baptized and obliges them more firmly to be witnesses of Christ by word and deed and to spread and defend the faith. It imprints a character, enriches by the gift of the Holy Spirit the baptized continuing on the path of Christian initiation, and binds them more perfectly to the Church.

Also, Confirmation is obligatory:
Can. 890:

The faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially pastors of parishes, are to take care that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the appropriate time.

Pax Tecum,
Zach

 

[1ke]

The program being used is Life Teen’s “Oneight.” The class meets twice monthly, outside of weekly catechesis/Life Nights, but during the same time as our Life Nights. The small groups consist of the class equally divided up with an adult Catechist who leads outlined discussion which allows for more intimate catechesis, and more importantly, faith sharing among the Candidates. Small groups typically gather toward the end of each session. Let me just say that this program, in one form or another (because Life Teen just upgraded its program is 2008 to its present form), has been extremely successful up to this point. I would also like to point out that youth group/catechesis/Life Night attendance among this class is extremely poor—most have only attended 1 or 2 Life Nights since the program kicked off in mid-September. Their bad attitudes are just that—bad. As stated previously, almost all in this class has been outright disrespectful to the Catechetical team. Talks/phone calls to/with parents from the youth ministry coordinator appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The attitude of the parents contacted was that of, ‘My angel would never behave like that!’ Heh. Yeah, right.

Well then your director needs to lay down some ground rules and then enforce them. Misbehaving teens will be asked to leave and the road back into class goes through the priest, with their parents there to explain why they should be let back in.

Discipline problems are a somewhat separate problem from the content, although possibly related if it’s all a repeat. It’s up to the program director to put his/her foot down and boot the unruly ones out of class.

I went to the LT site and looked at this curriculum, and their sample lesson on Sacraments is about at the level I taught my 5th graders at. It’s frankly quite basic. And, this seems to be a program I would expect to see in regular catechesis, not sacrament prep., since it’s covering basically following the 4 pillars of the Catechism in covering a wide variety of topics.

I’m not so old that I cannot relate to the ‘boredom’ these young people feel, but OTOH, when I was bored out of my skull and in such a situation, I NEVER disrespected a teacher, catechist, or any person in authority.

Again, it’s up to the teachers and director to determine what they will tolerate and what they won’t and then act. The kids can only misbehave if allowed to do so.

I have to admit in the two responses received thus far that I am shocked at what I perceive as a lack of importance placed on the receiving of this Sacrament.

What in the responses gave you that impressioin?

This is this Sacrament where our young people should be free to choose to say, “YES, LORD! I will follow You and Your Church all the days of my life!!!”

Um, no that is not what the Sacrament of Confirmation is or does. The person is not “confirming” anything. The bishop is the one who confirms. What is confirmed is baptism. Confirmation is a completion of baptism and a giving of specific graces of the Holy Spirit.

A person does not “confirm” or “choose” to be Catholic by receiving Confirmation. A person is Catholic by virtue of their baptism. Confirmation is not optional, it’s an obligation of all Catholics to receive the sacrament of Confirmation.

There are enough half-baked Christian Catholics roaming this earth. We, as a Catechetical team, don’t want to contribute to this ever-growing, sad statistic. I just heard Fr Corapi just say on EWTN, “We reap what we sow.” We don’t want those seeds falling on the path or rocky ground. We are trying to plant the seeds of faith in our teens in the rich soil that is buried deep within each one’s soul. We want our teens to be as holy as they can be. We want them to live with the intensity of a son or daughter of God. IMNSHO, there is NO WAY they can be taught these principles and matters of faith in a single day setting. That is like slapping Jesus right in the face. And that’s not cool.

It is the parent’s responsibility to educate their children in the faith and to be the witnesses to them regarding Christian living. Parents are the primary educators of their children in the faith. You supplement that. You cannot overcome whatever obstacles are placed in your path via what is going on in their lives the other 6 days and 23 hours you are not with them.

It is commendable that you care so much and want to do so much. With these particular teens perhaps the answer is that you cannot because they are not open. Perhaps removing them and suggegsting that their parents return with them when they are ready to behave is the best course. Every group of kids is different and if the curriculum you are using is well received except for by this particular group of kids, perhaps it’s time to give the parents some teaching materials and let them continue the catechesis at home.

They can then, as Annie suggested, be interviewed by the pastor as to whether or not the sacrament should be administered or delayed.

 

[jmcrae]

I have to admit in the two responses received thus far that I am shocked at what I perceive as a lack of importance placed on the receiving of this Sacrament.

It’s not a “lack of importance” - it’s the fact that Sacramental Preparation is mandated by the church to be focused on the meaning of the Sacrament itself.

It is not meant to be an opportunity to catch the kids up on everything they’ve missed in Catechism classes since they received First Reconciliation and First Holy Communion in the third grade - although I’m just as tempted as anyone else is, to use it for that.

What you need to do is focus on what they need to do and know for Confirmation. Make sure the optional stuff is available to them, such as service projects and Saint projects. (I also don’t read where you actually have to tell them that those things are optional.)

This is this Sacrament where our young people should be free to choose to say, “YES, LORD! I will follow You and Your Church all the days of my life!!!”

NO. The Sacrament of Confirmation is the Sacrament in which they receive the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, by means of the anointing of the Bishop, in confirmation of their Baptism.

It is not the Catholic equivalent of an “Altar Call.” It is not the moment when a young person “chooses to be Catholic.” (He has been Catholic from the moment of his Baptism, and choosing not to be Confirmed will not change that - his “choice” is between being a Catholic who has received the gifts of the Holy Spirit, or a Catholic who has not received the gifts of the Holy Spirit.)

 

[puzzleannie]

you, the pastor, the other catechists, the small group leaders, the LIfeTeen leadership, the Confirmation director the DRE, whoever else is involved need to sit down and set some ground rules.
start with definitions
LifeTeen is NOT primarily about Confirmation prep
Youth Ministry is NOT primarily about Confirmation prep
Confirmation prep is NOT primarily about catechesis, although that is a component of all 3.

does not sound as if any of the leadership agrees on what they are trying to accomplish and nothing can sabotage a Confirmation program – or LifeTeen, or a youth group, or High School Catechetical Program – faster than conflicts and misunderstandings in the leadership.

Advice: when it comes to sacramental prep follow the RCIA model as all catechetical documents have advised for the last 30 years.

When it comes to LifeTeen, get your training from someplace orthodox like Steubenville Summer conferences, and do it “as written” without trying to change its agenda, focus or program, and make it be something it is not.

 

[1ke]

you, the pastor, the other catechists, the small group leaders, the LIfeTeen leadership, the Confirmation director the DRE, whoever else is involved need to sit down and set some ground rules.
start with definitions
LifeTeen is NOT primarily about Confirmation prep
Youth Ministry is NOT primarily about Confirmation prep
Confirmation prep is NOT primarily about catechesis, although that is a component of all 3.

does not sound as if any of the leadership agrees on what they are trying to accomplish and nothing can sabotage a Confirmation program – or LifeTeen, or a youth group, or High School Catechetical Program – faster than conflicts and misunderstandings in the leadership.

Advice: when it comes to sacramental prep follow the RCIA model as all catechetical documents have advised for the last 30 years.

puzzleannie,

I agree with you regarding the blurring between catechesis, sacramental prep, and youth ministry.

The Oneight program referenced by the OP is a Confirmation program put out by the Life Teen people. Maybe that’s contributing to this blur.

I’ve never heard of it, and it’s not approved in our diocese for sacramental prep. But, I’m sure it’s solid since Archbishop Chaput is the imprimatur.

You can see the prgram overview here:

lifeteen.com/default.aspx?PageID=STORE_VIEWPRODUCT&__ProductID=248

Just from what I saw it’s very life night-ish. The one lesson given as an example includes a “game show” and a bunch of “road signs” to talk about sacraments. It definitely follows the LT format.

The description of sacrament in this materials, to me, seems on about a 5th grade level, not a high school level. I don’t see much meat here, but maybe that’s just me.

 

[CDNowak]

I have to admit in the two responses received thus far that I am shocked at what I perceive as a lack of importance placed on the receiving of this Sacrament. This is this Sacrament where our young people should be free to choose to say, “YES, LORD! I will follow You and Your Church all the days of my life!!!” There are enough half-baked Christian Catholics roaming this earth. We, as a Catechetical team, don’t want to contribute to this ever-growing, sad statistic. I just heard Fr Corapi just say on EWTN, “We reap what we sow.” We don’t want those seeds falling on the path or rocky ground. We are trying to plant the seeds of faith in our teens in the rich soil that is buried deep within each one’s soul. We want our teens to be as holy as they can be. We want them to live with the intensity of a son or daughter of God. IMNSHO, there is NO WAY they can be taught these principles and matters of faith in a single day setting. That is like slapping Jesus right in the face. And that’s not cool.

As other’s have pointed out, this is a faulty understanding of the Sacrament. (Actually combined with the preceding paragraph it is quite ironic.) The proper age for Confirmation in the Latin rite according to Canon Law is the age of reason (ie ~7). It is ridiculous that it is being withheld, as a matter of common practice, anywhere from 3 to 9 years. How many have fallen away as teenagers, precisely because they were robbed of having this grace?

It is also not the “personal acceptance” moment, that is the common error. In fact, Confirmation has little to do with the Confirmand’s actions and everything to do with the Holy Spirit’s.

There are many here, myself included, who do question the parish preparation in many cases, precisely because we were or have children who do know as much as the teachers about the Catholic faith.

---

LifeTeen’s program… Definitely sympathetic with your ‘know-it-all’! If this is the typical bad-attitude, the problem is not the young adults, its the program. (Speaking of which, “bad attitudes” cam have such a large range of meaning to be useless, as can “disrespect”. If “respect” is (and I paraphrase sitting still and keeping your mouth shut, then there may be good reason to be disrespectful, within our knowledge based on the few details we have received.).

“Faith sharing” is not going to appeal to a large portion of any group. I for one would have been begging to get out of it.

You must realize too, we only have your (secondhand) perspective, that is to say not even half the story. You aren’t going to get strong condemnations or plans of action on hearsay.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am writing on behalf of a fellow youth minister who has encountered a ‘problem’, per se, with a 17-year old (HS junior) whose attitude in the Confirmation prep class is, well, less than stellar. It’s in the basement, actually. He professes to “know it all” and thinks his Confirmation preparation can take place on a single Saturday, because after all, he has been an altar server since 3rd grade, and he knows it all. Those were his words to me last week, and to his small group leader last night.

Like snow in summer, or rain in harvest, honor for a fool is out of place.
Like the sparrow in its flitting, like the swallow in its flight, a curse uncalled-for arrives nowhere.
The whip for the horse, the bridle for the donkey, and the rod for the back of fools.
Answer not the fool according to his folly, lest you too become like him.
Answer the fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes.
He cuts off his feet, he drinks down violence, who sends messages by a fool.
A proverb in the mouth of a fool hangs limp, like crippled legs.
Like one who entangles the stone in the sling is he who gives honor to a fool.
Like a thorn stick brandished by the hand of a drunkard is a proverb in the mouth of fools.
Like an archer wounding all who pass by is he who hires a drunken fool.
As the dog returns to his vomit, so the fool repeats his folly.
You see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 26:1-12

What is the point of discussing all of this as if it were be going to be changed by a youth minister on the complaint of a 17 year old? That is not going to happen.

Sometimes 17 year olds who act like knotheads grow out of it, and sometimes they don’t. The chances are, though, that this kid knows everything better than his parents, his coaches, the principal, and everybody else either older, younger, or the same age as he is. You can give him one chance to see that his whining is immature and pointless. After that, ignore it…that is, enforce the reality that it is pointless. His classmates have undoubtedly learned to do the same.

If his youth ministers asked, I would suggest that they listen to what people have to say, but if it is foolish, don’t feel a need to answer it over and over and over. If he has been a server since 3rd grade, that is fine. Say, “Well, that is excellent. You also know how to respectfully keep your mouth closed and do as you’re asked to do, for the good of all. Father has sit through meetings he did not want to be at since he was ordained, and now it is your turn. Sit over there, then, and don’t do anything that would shame the fine people who trained you to serve at the altar.”

If he continues to complain, tell him: “It doesn’t do any good to know everything except which side your bread is buttered on. This is the last time I’m going to tell you: complaining to me is not going to change anything. Now please be quiet, and let’s finish this up. When you have a chance to complain to someone above me who decides to make things different, they’ll let me know.”

After that, if it is whining, ignore it, or treat it like chatter that has nothing to do with class.

Having said that: This young man’s youth ministers have not asked us directly. If they have asked you, OP, offer this as something they might consider, only. It may not fit them. If they don’t ask, save all this fine advice for the day when they do, or for your own use at a future date. In the meantime, the best you can do is to keep your mouth closed and let them handle their problem children in their own way.

 

[CDNowak]

@EasterJoy, I suggest taking a look at the program in use (LifeTeen’s OneNight). The young man in question may be very well justified in believing the program beneath him. As I said in my last post, we are not even getting half the story here…

 

[EasterJoy]

There are many here, myself included, who do question the parish preparation in many cases, precisely because we were or have children who do know as much as the teachers about the Catholic faith…

@EasterJoy, I suggest taking a look at the program in use (LifeTeen’s OneNight). The young man in question may be very well justified in believing the program beneath him. As I said in my last post, we are not even getting half the story here… .

While there is a place for complaints about curriculum and the requirements for any course of study, and those complaints can be entirely valid, that place is absolutely NOT between student and teacher after the course begins, let alone in front of the entire class during class time. That is kind of behavior is worse than pointless. It is willful embarrassment of the teacher, it betrays an attitude that one does not want in a colleague, and it can mean a future opportunity or a needed letter of recommendation out the window. I have seen it happen. The attitude ought to be rejected with as much graciousness and acknowledgement of youth as one can manage–a sense of humor helps greatly–but open rebellion cannot be tolerated. Well, it can be, but the student will suffer far more than the teacher, in the end.

Maybe this brilliant young man can just use this as an opportunity to get ready for the day when he knows better than all of his professors, too. I doubt if there is a member of the National Academy of Sciences who has not had a graduate student who knows thing he or she doesn’t. That doesn’t make respect for one’s teachers optional. I don’t mean that in the sarcastic sense, or at least not entirely. When one does graduate research, one can become an expert on things that giants in the field do not know. A young person who does not get the point that having a superior knowledge base does not permit one to take on a superior attitude may ruin a career before he ever has one, trust me.

If this program is going to be challenged, that needs to be done by parents, not by the confirmandi. Even the parents will find that their success or failure will have as much to do with the means they choose as it will with the substance of their complaint.

For the sake of his own future, this young man needs to get at least this much wisdom in handling even in a secular setting! It does not even begin to address the obvious fact that his behavior is intolerable because it is entirely without charity. What difference does it make how much knowledge he has, if he acts without any love? It counts for exactly nothing:

“…if I…comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge…but do not have love, I am nothing…Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury…Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing…When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.”

It is time for this young man to put away this childishness, too.

 

[EasterJoy]

FWIW, the pastor of our cluster (2 parishes) believes that Confirmation is a true rite, and little to no prep is necessary. However, it is the bad attitudes of this entire class (with the exception of 2 students–no joke) that is truly testing that team’s patience and their commitment to continue in this ministry.

If a pastor charges a teacher with the responsibility of teaching a class and yet does not insist the teacher and the curriculum be treated with respect, then the teacher is within his or her rights to insist the pastor find someone else to teach. If the pastor isn’t on board with the program, what person in their right mind would take it up? If he wants the program to fail to make some point with the bishop, let someone else accept the fool’s errand of failing for him. If he wants it to succeed, then he needs to do his part, too.

If the pastor is undermining their commitment and chances of success, though, they need to talk to him about it. He deserves a chance to either explain himself or mend his ways.

 

[CDNowak]

But all we know is that he has complained twice. And he has a “bad attitude”. The level of the curriculum, from the sample online and LifeTeen’s generally philosophy, is for teens who haven’t set foot in Church since First Communion. If not pulled up from that level, the program is a literal insult to those who have been active in learning their faith (we do know that the gentleman in question has been active in his parish). In this case, it just maybe the case that there is no respect either way, in which the young an is acting at his maturity level, and the OP is also acting at his maturity level.

But we don’t know what the exact case is. We have no knowledge of the parish situation (it seems the young man may be echoing the Priests view?). We have no knowledge of the young man himself other than he mentioned to one Catechist (occasion unspecified) and then another (during the ‘faith sharing’ which is arguably appropriate time and place) that he failed to see the point of the parish program. We also know we are not talking about a child (17 yr old), but a young adult. It is probably more appropriate for him to raise his concerns on his own first, having to have Mommy and Daddy solve the problem at his age isn’t an option.

What we do know is that the OP is unhappy with the maturity level of young people (I can’t help but think of the song from “Bye-Bye Birdie” here). We can know the level of formation, that it is sadly delayed (possibly a factor).

Basically, I can find no reason to judge the young man harshly on hearsay, particularly when there is evidence that the program is likely an insult to those who have been active in their faith. The issue of respect, and what constitutes it, is one that I never understood (or rather I have understood that ‘respect’ is being abused in an authoritarian manner whenever it is demanded, and true respect must be earned, no matter the disparity in age or position.)

 

[CDNowak]

If a pastor charges a teacher with the responsibility of teaching a class and yet does not insist the teacher and the curriculum be treated with respect, then the teacher is within his or her rights to insist the pastor find someone else to teach. If the pastor isn’t on board with the program, what person in their right mind would take it up? If he wants the program to fail to make some point with the bishop, let someone else accept the fool’s errand of failing for him. If he wants it to succeed, then he needs to do his part, too.

If the pastor is undermining their commitment and chances of success, though, they need to talk to him about it. He deserves a chance to either explain himself or mend his ways.

Or he needs to make a stand on a program he can support.

 

[jmcrae]

But all we know is that he has complained twice. And he has a “bad attitude”.

If he is complaining in private, that’s one thing, but if he is disrupting the class to complain, then he’s in the wrong. If he is driving discussions off topic for the purpose of disrupting the class because he doesn’t happen to like the subject, then he is in the wrong.

The other thing he needs to consider is the fact that they aren’t going to change programs part way through, even if they have their Bishop’s permission to do so, because that would entail re-writing the time-table. The best program we have in our Diocese is a nine-week program, but I’m using the six-week program because that’s all I can get my people to come for. If they complain that it’s “boring” or not meaty enough, I’d switch to the 9-week program - next year. Not right in the middle of the six-week program after it’s already started. But so far, nobody has complained about our program.

 

[CDNowak]

If he is complaining in private, that’s one thing, but if he is disrupting the class to complain, then he’s in the wrong. If he is driving discussions off topic for the purpose of disrupting the class because he doesn’t happen to like the subject, then he is in the wrong.

The other thing he needs to consider is the fact that they aren’t going to change programs part way through, even if they have their Bishop’s permission to do so, because that would entail re-writing the time-table. The best program we have in our Diocese is a nine-week program, but I’m using the six-week program because that’s all I can get my people to come for. If they complain that it’s “boring” or not meaty enough, I’d switch to the 9-week program - next year. Not right in the middle of the six-week program after it’s already started. But so far, nobody has complained about our program.

To the first part that is one of the few things the OP told us: the time he spoke up in class was during the small-group/faith sharing exercise. To that extent we cannot assume he is wrong. (Doesn’t mean he is altogether in the right, we just have to err that way).

There are ways to make adjustments mid course (without doing away with Oneight this year). Parts of the program that are fluff can be replaced with more in depth coverage of topics. Small group can give way to adoration. Actually, if the young man in question were here, I would advise him to talk to Father about doing his own prep for Confirmation.

 

[jmcrae]

To the first part that is one of the few things the OP told us: the time he spoke up in class was during the small-group/faith sharing exercise. To that extent we cannot assume he is wrong. (Doesn’t mean he is altogether in the right, we just have to err that way).

There are ways to make adjustments mid course (without doing away with Oneight this year). Parts of the program that are fluff can be replaced with more in depth coverage of topics. Small group can give way to adoration. Actually, if the young man in question were here, I would advise him to talk to Father about doing his own prep for Confirmation.

If I were his Confirmation catechist, I’d be recommending something like that, too, assuming Father were willing to take him for private lessons - or else I would give him individual instruction apart from the rest of the group, if Father didn’t have time to set something up for him. I’ve done that in the past, and it works well enough, although in those cases, it was just that the people weren’t physically able to come to the classes.