Teenage advice

[nana3]

Okay, I did not know if I should put this question here or in parenting, but I decided in family life.

We have a 13 year old daughter who I homeschool and have since the 3rd grade. She use to have so many questions about religion and God. Starting last year in the 7th grade, she started to resent the Catholic Church and hated religion class. I thought it had to do with the Seton program because they have you memorize all those Catechism question. She was great at Bible History. I noticed how she use to always be the one who wanted to say the intentions before we prayed the family rosary and starting last year until now, she will not pray or say any intentions. She says she hates the Rosary.

Today, we went to confession as a family at a Shrine that offers it on Sundays and she refused to go. Of course, my husband forced her into the confessional so that she would tell the priest that she didn’t want to go to Confession. I begged him not to do this, but he does what he wants. The priest told him that he should not force her to Confession if she does not want to go. She has not gone in 2 months. She is not in mortal sin, so it is not such a big deal, but we want her to know that she doesn’t have to wait to be in mortal sin.

When we go into a church, she refuses to genuflect properly. Her knees won’t go down to the floor, but she does one like the old people do who have bad knees or back. I have bad knees and a bad back and I can do a proper genuflection. When I asked her why she won’t do it because she is greeting Jesus and it is not for us her parents, she says that her father is watching her and she won’t do it right for him, so there is rebellion there. She hates it that he corrects her. She really gets aggravated and angry. She knows her dad watches to see when and if she makes the sign of the cross when we pray the rosary and she won’t make it unless she makes it with me. I think it is all ridiculous, but she hates to please her dad and likes to anger him and he has an anger problem.

Is this normal for this age or is she being just disobedient? Every priest we have talked to, tells us not to push her and teach her what is right and wrong and the rest is up to her, but my husband is not like that. When something bothers him, he will continue until he is satisfied that he has talked all he can to her. He says, it is his job as the head of the household. I just don’t want her hating the Catholic Church, which she said today when he tried forcing to go to Confession.

I don’t know what to do. I have two stubborn people, my dd and dh.

 

[LightBound]

Okay, I did not know if I should put this question here or in parenting, but I decided in family life.

We have a 13 year old daughter who I homeschool and have since the 3rd grade. She use to have so many questions about religion and God. Starting last year in the 7th grade, she started to resent the Catholic Church and hated religion class. I thought it had to do with the Seton program because they have you memorize all those Catechism question. She was great at Bible History. I noticed how she use to always be the one who wanted to say the intentions before we prayed the family rosary and starting last year until now, she will not pray or say any intentions. She says she hates the Rosary.

Today, we went to confession as a family at a Shrine that offers it on Sundays and she refused to go. Of course, my husband forced her into the confessional so that she would tell the priest that she didn’t want to go to Confession. I begged him not to do this, but he does what he wants. The priest told him that he should not force her to Confession if she does not want to go. She has not gone in 2 months. She is not in mortal sin, so it is not such a big deal, but we want her to know that she doesn’t have to wait to be in mortal sin.

When we go into a church, she refuses to genuflect properly. Her knees won’t go down to the floor, but she does one like the old people do who have bad knees or back. I have bad knees and a bad back and I can do a proper genuflection. When I asked her why she won’t do it because she is greeting Jesus and it is not for us her parents, she says that her father is watching her and she won’t do it right for him, so there is rebellion there. She hates it that he corrects her. She really gets aggravated and angry. She knows her dad watches to see when and if she makes the sign of the cross when we pray the rosary and she won’t make it unless she makes it with me. I think it is all ridiculous, but she hates to please her dad and likes to anger him and he has an anger problem.

Is this normal for this age or is she being just disobedient? Every priest we have talked to, tells us not to push her and teach her what is right and wrong and the rest is up to her, but my husband is not like that. When something bothers him, he will continue until he is satisfied that he has talked all he can to her. He says, it is his job as the head of the household. I just don’t want her hating the Catholic Church, which she said today when he tried forcing to go to Confession.

I don’t know what to do. I have two stubborn people, my dd and dh.

I wish I knew what to tell you, but you’ve already figured out your husband is stubborn- he won’t even abide with what the priests you see for counsel and direction advise him to do. He’s going to need to wake up and see that “his way” of doing things is going to push your daughter away from the Church and from him. Do you and he talk about these things or does he pull the “head of household” card each time instead of discussing these concerns with you? I would prayerfully approach him and let him know that he needs to see that his insistence on being like this is just driving her further away. I hope some others might have some better suggestions.

 

[JimG]

I’m interested to see what other people have to say. To me, she sounds like a pretty normal 13 year old. Plus, maybe dad is just trying to keep too tight of a rein on her, and of course that would make her rebel.

 

[blueshells]

I went through something like this when I was a teenager–heck, sometimes I still do. I have no idea if this is psychologically accurate, so please feel free to disregard my advice or at least take it with a grain of salt.

Teenagers and young adults like to try to find their own way–it’s their time to find their identity and figure things out. I would hate it when my mom would try to micromanage me to make me do things “properly”. It was my time to come into my own, make my own mistakes and figure out my own way of doing things. There would be things that I wanted to do and that my parents wanted me to do, but the more my parents pushed me the more I pushed back; I felt like I needed to make them understand that I was doing things by my own initiative, rather than just by obedience to them. Teenagers know that they’re awkward and might be doing things wrong, and putting them under the microscope makes them all the more uncomfortable.

It is unfortunate, but you are coming into the time when you need to start letting go and trusting in God and your own good parenting. Maybe buy her a biography of a Saint you’re particularly devoted to, or if she has a favorite one, or a book on the theology of the Eucharist or something. Give her something so that she can truly understand why Catholics believe what they believe, or why they do what they do. It will help her so much in her formation to understand these things, and she may come to have a deep, great love of them. You are her mother and you will always be her rock; take comfort in that. But right now you need to let go of her hand and let her start finding her own way to Christ–absolutely be a resource and give her nudges here and there–but she sounds like she’s been raised well and she’ll figure out what’s best for her.

 

[Cat]

I raised two daughters, and they both turned out well.

Your daughter’s behavior is normal. So very, very normal.

You and your husband MUST ease off.

Choose your battles very, very carefully. Only go to battle over issues that involve danger to her life (e.g., drugs).

You might ask, “Shouldn’t we go to battle over issues that involve danger to her soul?”

The problem with that is that it’s difficult for some parents to see what is truly endangering her soul. E.g., there is no “requirement” for a Catholic to go to Confession on a regular basis. Yes, this might be your family “rule,” and if it’s really REALLY important to you, go ahead and dig in. But frankly, I would save my “really really important” for life-threatening issues (e.g., drugs).

Same for genuflecting. There’s no rule in the Catholic Church that all must genuflect low to the floor.

A 13-year old teenaged girl is extremely self-conscious, and she’s convinced that EVERYONE is looking at her, and EVERYONE will see her genuflect, and she’s trying to avoid being looked at and judged. Of course, we as adults know that no one is looking at her (unless she’s wearing a really sexy outfit), but please, please try to think like a 13-year-old girl–she doesn’t have the maturity yet to think like an adult.

So don’t push the genuflection thing.

Back way off. Tell your husband that he must learn to control his temper, keep his hands off (no corporal punishment ever for a teenaged girl–that will mean many years of rejection and grief for you and her), and be gentle and reasonable.

The best way to handle a 13-year old is to stay in control of yourselves. Her world feels like it is spinning out of control and she is trying desperately to find herself and her place in this world. She needs her parents to be calm, controlled, and rock solid about their own world.

The BEST way to communicate Christian faith to a 13-year-old is through ACTIONS, not words. This would be a great time for your family to get involved with helping the poor, or volunteering at soup kitchens, or travelling to the March for Life in Washington next Jan, or simply being very faithful about doing your parish’s activities. Even more important is living without hypocrisy at home–no shouting, fights, worries about money, overindulging in food or drink, etc.–in other words, live your faith as a couple.

Teens love to see faith in action (not words). They don’t necessarily want to be forced into doing those actions themselves, but they want to see you, the parents, living out their faith.

One thing that is really important for teens is freedom–they are trying to grow up, and this is a GOOD THING, not a BAD THING. Have a talk with her and let her know that as she demonstrates that she can be trustworthy, she will earn more and more freedom, and that the goal is for her to be essentially an adult by the time she is 16 years old–able to drive, work, date, manage her own time, budget her own money, and choose her own activities.

But she must earn freedom by being faithful in little things. E.g., if she is assigned the chore of doing the dishes each evening, she must demonstrate that she can be trusted faithfully do this chore, otherwise, it will be difficult for parents to allow her to go to a concert in another city with her friends. But if she is faithful in the little chore, she is demonstrating maturity, and it’s easier for parents to say “Yes” to concerts and other activities.

Keep expanding her freedoms as she gets older. TRAIN her to be a functioning adult. Don’t try to keep her a little girl. It can’t be done.

And remember–this will pass. She will grow up. Your major job right now is to help her survive, which is why I say only take a unyielding stand on those issues that involve danger to her life.

 

[Irishmom2]

Every priest we have talked to, tells us not to push her and teach her what is right and wrong and the rest is up to her, but my husband is not like that. When something bothers him, he will continue until he is satisfied that he has talked all he can to her. He says, it is his job as the head of the household.

The way I see this, your husband is the problem. Your daughter is acting rebellious, but it is because she is being forced into everything, and not given it as a choice. She probably thinks she is being smothered in Catholicism, if I can say that without getting beat up. The homeschooling, the family confession, it may be all just too much for her–coming from her parents. I do not mean to imply that parents have no say in what religion their child has, but rather your husband seems to think he can choose the degree that his daughter will participate in her own mind, and that is just wrong. He needs to not push so hard. Requiring her to go to mass is one thing, that is not optional. Genuflecting is fine, but critiquing how she “performs” is not. Bringing your family to church and offering the opportunity for confession, fine. Forcing her into the confessional, not.

Your husband wants to be the head of the house, but he is unwilling to take any advice from your parish priest? This is a real problem. Your husband wants to disregard what the priest has advised about your daughter. If your husband values his Catholic faith as he appears to, why not listen to the advice of the priest?

By the way, excellent post by Cat. She has many good ideas.

 

[nhamm10]

Agree with CAT 100%. I would tell your husband at this point during the mass the best thing to do would be look straight ahead, pay attention, pray and don’t look at her at ALL until the sign of peace. He has to let go of the control or it WILL be catastrophic to him, her and her faith in the future. If he just cannot do that then have her sit on your side, you then him so he doesn’t have that much of a view of her. Does she get to go out with friends to the mall and movies by herself? Does she do teen things? Since she is homeschooled she might feel a little smoothered and isn’t really getting to grow into herself?

 

[maryjk]

Another one that agrees with Cat and with Irishmom2.

I really see this as a problem with your husband rather than your daughter. You daughter has simply said that she will not live under the thumb of your husband. I really don’t blame her.

 

[MissRose73]

I would say there is more issue with the father compared to the teen daughter here. I know children should obey their parents but at the same time, she is starting to exert some independence too as she is starting to grow up physically & in other ways. The father needs to realize some battles will not be won right now. As long as the young lady attends Sunday & Holy Day Masses and participates to the best of her ability + dressed decently alongside her family, then he should stop being worried about little things for now like how she genuflects and/or what she says in Confession.

I know my mother was very insistent on me and my sister going to Mass every weekend growing up when living with her, and there were times I did not like going, same for my sister. My sister eventually fell away from the church because of my mother’s actions not long after reaching adulthood as she felt my mother was a hypocrite - acting all holy and stuff at church, and not being that way at home. My sister at one time thought when I moved away from home that I was going to church still to please our mother which was not the case many years ago but her attitude has changed, and she respects that I go now. I fell away for a few short times but returned back, and go to a different church compared to my mother’s so I can be my own person so when I have to go to my mother’s church now, I can feel like I can stand on my own 2 feet as a grown woman.

 

[Highwayhound]

Teaching teenagers is fun. This year I am teaching the confirmation class.

What follows are merely ideas/options to consider. You know your daughter best and I do not presume to know enough about her to give specific advice.

Do you have resource to other opportunities for her education? For example I routinely invite Sister Juanita to come to my classes. She has authority that I do not have by virtue of age and being a nun. She is strict with love and humor. When she tells her stories about being a young girl and having a boyfriend in this town and a boyfriend in that town my student’s eyes get so big? Sister Juanita understands my students better than they understand themselves. Seek out a possible Sister Juanita in your area.

When the kids signed up for class I had them list 4 projects they would like to do. This is just one way to have them take ownership of their faith. When they kids are invested by their own choice they work harder. Right now we are putting together a Thanksgiving dinner for a family.

Confession? I ask my students what looks better to them their bedroom or their bedroom after they clean it. They get the idea and better see Confession as having a purpose and not something they fear or are being forced to do.

Genuflection? If Jesus was in front of her would she be so nonchalant? Does she understand that Jesus is in front of her the tabernacle? Posture in general reflect our attitudes. Are we slumped over in the pew? Do we look like we are slapping our faces when making the sign of the cross?

Another idea I have my students do is to pick a virtue which will be theirs for the year. Most of the students picked kindness or patience this year. I ask them during class, “How did you exercise your virtue this week?” Is she familiar with the Seven Heavenly Virtues and the Seven Deadly Sins? You stated she gets angry. The opposing virtue is kindness. Does she want to be an angry person or a kind person? The opposite of pride is humility. Likes to anger him? Does she know it is a sin to cause others to sin?

Hope these ideas help.

God bless

 

[LightBound]

I raised two daughters, and they both turned out well.

Your daughter’s behavior is normal. So very, very normal.

You and your husband MUST ease off.

Choose your battles very, very carefully. Only go to battle over issues that involve danger to her life (e.g., drugs).

You might ask, “Shouldn’t we go to battle over issues that involve danger to her soul?”

The problem with that is that it’s difficult for some parents to see what is truly endangering her soul. E.g., there is no “requirement” for a Catholic to go to Confession on a regular basis. Yes, this might be your family “rule,” and if it’s really REALLY important to you, go ahead and dig in. But frankly, I would save my “really really important” for life-threatening issues (e.g., drugs).

Same for genuflecting. There’s no rule in the Catholic Church that all must genuflect low to the floor.

A 13-year old teenaged girl is extremely self-conscious, and she’s convinced that EVERYONE is looking at her, and EVERYONE will see her genuflect, and she’s trying to avoid being looked at and judged. Of course, we as adults know that no one is looking at her (unless she’s wearing a really sexy outfit), but please, please try to think like a 13-year-old girl–she doesn’t have the maturity yet to think like an adult.

So don’t push the genuflection thing.

Back way off. Tell your husband that he must learn to control his temper, keep his hands off (no corporal punishment ever for a teenaged girl–that will mean many years of rejection and grief for you and her), and be gentle and reasonable.

The best way to handle a 13-year old is to stay in control of yourselves. Her world feels like it is spinning out of control and she is trying desperately to find herself and her place in this world. She needs her parents to be calm, controlled, and rock solid about their own world.

The BEST way to communicate Christian faith to a 13-year-old is through ACTIONS, not words. This would be a great time for your family to get involved with helping the poor, or volunteering at soup kitchens, or travelling to the March for Life in Washington next Jan, or simply being very faithful about doing your parish’s activities. Even more important is living without hypocrisy at home–no shouting, fights, worries about money, overindulging in food or drink, etc.–in other words, live your faith as a couple.

Teens love to see faith in action (not words). They don’t necessarily want to be forced into doing those actions themselves, but they want to see you, the parents, living out their faith.

One thing that is really important for teens is freedom–they are trying to grow up, and this is a GOOD THING, not a BAD THING. Have a talk with her and let her know that as she demonstrates that she can be trustworthy, she will earn more and more freedom, and that the goal is for her to be essentially an adult by the time she is 16 years old–able to drive, work, date, manage her own time, budget her own money, and choose her own activities.

But she must earn freedom by being faithful in little things. E.g., if she is assigned the chore of doing the dishes each evening, she must demonstrate that she can be trusted faithfully do this chore, otherwise, it will be difficult for parents to allow her to go to a concert in another city with her friends. But if she is faithful in the little chore, she is demonstrating maturity, and it’s easier for parents to say “Yes” to concerts and other activities.

Keep expanding her freedoms as she gets older. TRAIN her to be a functioning adult. Don’t try to keep her a little girl. It can’t be done.

And remember–this will pass. She will grow up. Your major job right now is to help her survive, which is why I say only take a unyielding stand on those issues that involve danger to her life.

 

[LightBound]

The way I see this, your husband is the problem. Your daughter is acting rebellious, but it is because she is being forced into everything, and not given it as a choice. She probably thinks she is being smothered in Catholicism, if I can say that without getting beat up. The homeschooling, the family confession, it may be all just too much for her–coming from her parents. I do not mean to imply that parents have no say in what religion their child has, but rather your husband seems to think he can choose the degree that his daughter will participate in her own mind, and that is just wrong. He needs to not push so hard. Requiring her to go to mass is one thing, that is not optional. Genuflecting is fine, but critiquing how she “performs” is not. Bringing your family to church and offering the opportunity for confession, fine. Forcing her into the confessional, not.

Your husband wants to be the head of the house, but he is unwilling to take any advice from your parish priest? This is a real problem. Your husband wants to disregard what the priest has advised about your daughter. If your husband values his Catholic faith as he appears to, why not listen to the advice of the priest?

By the way, excellent post by Cat. She has many good ideas.

 

[Ben_F]

If the Father doesn´t wake up and lead by setting the example, and talking to her in a Fatherly way, rather than a Head of the Household way, he´s going to lose his daughter. As she gets older and more forgiving herself, she will reconcile herself with her father. I can tell this future, for it was my past. I too really messed up my life because of early childhood. God got me on the right track, and He will with your daughter also. When we screw up, He fixes it everytime. No parent is perfect and God knows this. No parent is completely to blame for their children´s future. The child share´s about 50-50. The best thing the Father can tell his Daughter is I love you. He should say this. If I didn´t love you, then I would be indifferent with you. Obviously I´m going about this the wrong way, because you reject me. I will leave you alone and pray for you, because you need praying for. I have the hope that Our Savior will bring you back to Him and in this way, He will bring you back to me. Only the Lord loves you more than I. God bless:thumbsup:

 

[cmscms]

This post has really opened up an old wound for me. And I really hope you show what I write to your husband because I doubt he wants to end up like my father.

When I was 13 my dad was EXACTLY like your husband and in my face over every single last detail of my life. I could NOT stand it. It got to the point that every weekend until I left home, I would wake up and read in bed and wait for my dad to leave the house before going down to eat breakfast. My dad probably though I liked to sleep in on the week ends - HA ! I was avoiding him

I can’t help but think if a thirteen year old girl feels akward genuinflecting, it is probably that time of the month and she will NEVER tell her dad that. So her only option is to NEVER genuinflect.

Also, I always resented my mom for not standing up for me. So I strongly encourage you to talk to your husband and tell him to quit taking out on your daughter whatever unhealed pain he is carrying and too scared to face.

Lastly, if your daughter is anything like me, the more your husband gets in her face, the crueller she will be to him. I NEVER enjoyed hurting my dad. But he was SO in my face over everything, as a thirteen year old with no where to go, the only option I had was to lash out at him.

And this is the part I REALLY hope your husband reads. Because of how my dad treated me as a teenager, we had a strained relationship for the rest of his life. And it took my dad’s death for me to be able to put all that behind me and actually find in the bottom of my heart all the love I really had for him. I beg your husband not to go down that path. Almost 30 years of sharing love with my dad went to waste. Please… don’t let that happen to your family

CM

 

[ahollars]

They don’t necessarily want to be forced into doing those actions themselves, but they want to see you, the parents, living out their faith.

This…

Teenagers are prone to view prayer life as all talk and no action. Only God can correct that perception. You as a parent can only help.

Charity work and civil action are the best ways to keep teenagers involved in the effects of what it means to be Catholic. Being close to DC, we have gone to the March for Life every year that we do not have a newborn with us. Donating time to food drives, youth work camps, and the like can keep their eyes open, especially if you only make them go a few times a year. You job is not to force or decide their priorities, rather, just to keep their eyes open and aware of the world around them.

Having said that, I agree with Dad about the genuflection. I have corrected my own children for failing to show the proper reverence for the One who gave them life. “Remember where you are” I have said to them. “You will not show someone or something else more respect than you give your Creator”. The line does have to be drawn somewhere.

If she is ready, being introducing apologetics into her curriculum. Introduce the differences between Catholicism and other religions. Being homeschooled, she may not have to defend herself for awhile, but make sure she is ready for when the day comes. Time to consider the idea that you may have to let her go to public high school. We let ours go, and she has handled herself very maturely.

 

[PaulinVA]

You will never, ever, ever win a battle of wills against a teenager.

Like — EVER.

Sometimes, we parents, in our zeal to protect our kids and make sure that they are raised correctly, drive them away from us and the things that we think are important. The more they rebel, the more we clamp down, and the more they rebel…

Just a specific bit of advice - if you take the family to confession and one of the kids doesn’t want to go, urge them to go in and tell the priest that they didn’t want to go. Not to confess the sin (it doesn’t have to be confession), but more of a casual, why don’t you take the opportunity to talk to Father X and tell him you are unhappy. I find that priests usually handle this quite well.

Remember, raising kids is a long-term effort.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Is it possible that after homeschooling for so long, that the mother and daughter have formed a little clique, and the mother is projecting frustration at during the fathers absence, so the level of respect for the has diminished?

Could the root of the problem possibly be the mother and daughter?

 

[maryjk]

You will never, ever, ever win a battle of wills against a teenager.

Like — EVER.

Sometimes, we parents, in our zeal to protect our kids and make sure that they are raised correctly, drive them away from us and the things that we think are important. The more they rebel, the more we clamp down, and the more they rebel…

Just a specific bit of advice - if you take the family to confession and one of the kids doesn’t want to go, urge them to go in and tell the priest that they didn’t want to go. Not to confess the sin (it doesn’t have to be confession), but more of a casual, why don’t you take the opportunity to talk to Father X and tell him you are unhappy. I find that priests usually handle this quite well.

Remember, raising kids is a long-term effort.

I agree with everything but the bold and underlined part.

How about if they go in and say, “I haven’t committed any mortal sins, but somehow my father thinks if I walk in here, I will think of one … Nope, not yet. So is it a mortal sin to project your sins on another, because if so, Dad has some explaining to do!!”

Not wanting to go to Confession could simply mean they have nothing to say in Confession. It doesn’t mean they are unhappy. Just not in mortal sin. At 13, if the family has been going for years, she knows if she needs to go or not. Forcing her to go, even just telling her she has to talk to the priest, in my opinion, is wrong.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I also agree with the posters here - this sounds more like your husband’s issue with being controlling than your daughter’s issue. Thirteen year olds simply cannot be parented as if they were three instead.

In particular, you cannot ever force another adult (in Church-speak) to receive a sacrament. Since your daughter is over the age of reason and has received the sacraments of First Penance and First Holy Communion, no one can tell her that she must go to confession and especially not what she should say to the priest.

Has she been confirmed yet? She may be one who refuses to go through Confirmation if these fights continue. I would strongly consider dropping formal religion class from your homeschool curriculum. Give her something like the Prove It! series by Amy Welborn and ask her to read them. They may help her with the doubts and anger she is having which the Baltimore Catechism doesn’t even acknowledge.

I’d also like to second the idea of thinking about “away school” for high school. I fully support homeschooling, but believe even more strongly in doing what is best for each child. In this case, it may be better to give your daughter a bit more room to grow on her own.

She will hopefully have the following experiences:

1. she will find out from her friends that other parents can be overwhelming also, but not all of them
2. she will interact daily with other adults and learn how to positively handle different types of authority
3. she will develop her own ways of defending her faith and practicing it
4. she will see daily family prayer as refreshment from the trials of the day

My daughter and her father have always had an excellent relationship, but interactions with her males teachers gave her another view. A young woman (well any woman really) can’t treat everyone like Daddy and relationships with peers are not the same thing at all.

As to her outward actions, genuflecting and the sign of the cross, yes they are visible signs of piety, but they can also be performed perfectly with no thought behind them. One thing to be aware of is if the clothes she wears to church allow her to genuflect modestly. You don’t have to be wearing a micro-mini to feel awkward. At 13 she may also just be going through an awkward stage in general.

 

[PaulinVA]

I agree with everything but the bold and underlined part.

Not wanting to go to Confession could simply mean they have nothing to say in Confession. It doesn’t mean they are unhappy. Just not in mortal sin. At 13, if the family has been going for years, she knows if she needs to go or not. Forcing her to go, even just telling her she has to talk to the priest, in my opinion, is wrong.

Well, you want to foster the idea of regular confession. You don’t want allow the child to never go, so a compromise is just to talk to the priest. I don’t know whether that is wrong or not, but, really, you want them to get used to doing the confession thing.

Forcing them is wrong, but, if you get them to wait in line maybe they will talk to the priest about why they don’t want to go. That’s useful.