Teenager / Steubenville question (Long)

[agapewolf]

This thread is already very long with lots of opinions being posted. I do not have time right now to read all of them so I hope this is not too much of a repeat.

As a parish Coordinator of Youth Ministry, I do not support Steubenville. I find their practices to be just as you described - emotion based on exhaustion. They keep the kids going all day (often in summer - in the heat described) and they are just worn out. Then when they do Adoration the kids start to feel the effects on their body from the exhaustion and become emotional which can intensify the issues and the whole things compounds.

I think there are much healthier opportunities for teens. Most Dioceses have Youth Conventions or Rallys. There is also the National Catholic Youth Conference that is every other year. They are great options for young people.

At this point, I guess the question would be - what do you hope to accomplish by talking to the chaperones? If you think it would help future groups then sure, do it.

Actually, the last few years the adoration with music happens on Friday night. Saturday night has mellowed or silent adoration.

NCYC has basically no value beyond seeing the loads of other teens there. I helped put it together in St. Louis and there was no adoration, no emphasis on sacraments, no emphasis on confession, and very liberal.

Here is a link to the pictures of the vocation call at the Steub conference:

“If God might be calling you to a consecrated/priest vocation come down for a blessing”. What you can’t see is how deep they go…at least 200 of each.

i337.photobucket.com/albums/n391/agapewolf/100_0090.jpg

i337.photobucket.com/albums/n391/agapewolf/100_0088.jpg

 

[BlessedMomof2]

at the one my daughter attended there was a quiet adoration on friday and the BIG adoration on Saturday.

 

[tiggeriffic]

NCYC has basically no value beyond seeing the loads of other teens there. I helped put it together in St. Louis and there was no adoration, no emphasis on sacraments, no emphasis on confession, and very liberal.

I am not going to hijack this thread - but perhaps you did not see it but I am almost assured NCYC had those things. Adoration, and Reconciliation are certainly available at every NCYC I have been to. The on site chapel actually has a variety of prayer forms available through out the weekend. Taize to Adoration and everything in between.

 

[BlessedMomof2]

This thread is already very long with lots of opinions being posted. I do not have time right now to read all of them so I hope this is not too much of a repeat.

As a parish Coordinator of Youth Ministry, I do not support Steubenville. I find their practices to be just as you described - emotion based on exhaustion. They keep the kids going all day (often in summer - in the heat described) and they are just worn out. Then when they do Adoration the kids start to feel the effects on their body from the exhaustion and become emotional which can intensify the issues and the whole things compounds.

I think there are much healthier opportunities for teens. Most Dioceses have Youth Conventions or Rallys. There is also the National Catholic Youth Conference that is every other year. They are great options for young people.

At this point, I guess the question would be - what do you hope to accomplish by talking to the chaperones? If you think it would help future groups then sure, do it.

Thank you Tigger. no, no one else has said what you have said. I am more aligned with your opinion than all the other pro-steubenville posts. No one has given me any indication that this was anything more than exhaustion and emotion brought on by exhaustion and heat and it set off a chain reaction among the kids. I do not agree with the charismatic movement in the catholic church nor do I want to discredit it however, for MY FAMILY I will not allow it to continue. So that will be the last steubenville for my daugther.

And agapewolf, that’s the other issue - the “vocation call”. Nothing like putting emotional kids on the spot with recruiting eh? I think that asking kids to come forward, young teenagers, in public is the wrong thing. What if a kid got caught up and walked forward and then realized that he or she was just caught up in the moment? Then what? I can imagine a tremendous amount of guilt over that. I remember being that age and thinking of becoming a nun. But I also thought of joining the army/being a teacher/serving in the peace corp/being a astronaut. None of which actually turned out to be what I really wanted to be. I can’t imagine feeling like, in the heat of emotion, making a decision I was going to regret. Isn’t this what we try to teach our kids in regards to chastity? How come it’s ok to make snap heat of the moment decisions sometimes? I fully support prayerful call to vocation, and allowing our young people to know that a life of God is a valuable and honorable life and that it’s something that they should consider if the call is there. But not put hundreds of kids on the spot like that.

 

[agapewolf]

And agapewolf, that’s the other issue - the “vocation call”. Nothing like putting emotional kids on the spot with recruiting eh? I think that asking kids to come forward, young teenagers, in public is the wrong thing. What if a kid got caught up and walked forward and then realized that he or she was just caught up in the moment? Then what? I can imagine a tremendous amount of guilt over that. I remember being that age and thinking of becoming a nun. But I also thought of joining the army/being a teacher/serving in the peace corp/being a astronaut. None of which actually turned out to be what I really wanted to be. I can’t imagine feeling like, in the heat of emotion, making a decision I was going to regret. Isn’t this what we try to teach our kids in regards to chastity? How come it’s ok to make snap heat of the moment decisions sometimes? I fully support prayerful call to vocation, and allowing our young people to know that a life of God is a valuable and honorable life and that it’s something that they should consider if the call is there. But not put hundreds of kids on the spot like that.

You weren’t there. No one was put on the spot. How in the world would they regret it? There was absolutely no decision made. THey weren’t signing anything. THey weren’t pressured or put on the spot. They came FORWARD FOR A BLESSING! That’s it. Nothing to regret. You have made up your mind to not like things, so you will place everything in the “I’m going to have problems with everything” file. It was BEAUTIFUL! They make it clear to everyone there that all they need is prayers, no pressure, no one to talk about it after. That their vocation is their own to figure out. Nothing to regret. Even if they did “get caught up in the moment”…again, there is nothing to regret…they have just been open to surrendering to God’s will for them

 

[agapewolf]

I am not going to hijack this thread - but perhaps you did not see it but I am almost assured NCYC had those things. Adoration, and Reconciliation are certainly available at every NCYC I have been to. The on site chapel actually has a variety of prayer forms available through out the weekend. Taize to Adoration and everything in between.

A side chapel being “available” is not an emphasis on sacraments.
At stueb, they encourage constantly to go to Confession. There are lines of hundreds of kids each night to go.

Adoration is actually part of the events of the day that everyone does.

at NCYC, it was merely an afterthought…

 

[BlessedMomof2]

nope, I wasn’t there. But I’m hearing about that aspect of it from my daughter now. The more she talks about it now that she’s rested, hydrated, and not emotional, the more she’s finding how plain odd the whole weekend was. I’m simply telling you what she told me. She said that some kids from their group went forward. Kids she saw last night. They now say they felt weird if they didn’t go up and so they went. They also are saying that they have no intentions of being a priest, not before, not now and they have no clue why they went forward other than it seemed like the thing to do.

i’ve got big problems with it. You’re right. You may say that I’ve made up my mind to not like it, but you’ve made up your mind to follow it blindly. I’ve received a lot of email from people who haven’t wanted to post publicly about things they know now about Steubenville conferences and frankly I’m shocked that the Catholic church supports this.

 

[agapewolf]

i’ve got big problems with it. You’re right. You may say that I’ve made up my mind to not like it, but you’ve made up your mind to follow it blindly. I’ve received a lot of email from people who haven’t wanted to post publicly about things they know now about Steubenville conferences and frankly I’m shocked that the Catholic church supports this.

Again, do not put words in my mouth. I NEVER said I follow it blindly. Back in the day, there were some over dramatization which sounds like it still is happening in some areas and thats unfortunate, but I’m telling you, a lot more good than bad happens.

 

[BlessedMomof2]

I’ve yet to see the good. I see a 15 year old who is still pretty disturbed by the whole experience. I see a leader who has led these children to believe that the leader and the experiences at steubenville are correct and has set them up to expect that their parents are idiots. That sounds like a cult to me.

 

[Larowyn]

I don’t think that it was appropriate that 2500 kids were screaming, crying, and going hysterical during Mass or Adoration. My CYO leader asked the parish priest about it, and he had never heard of anything like that happening.

 

[dconklin]

Ok this is exactly my problem.

You are all basically saying that it’s ok for other adults to tell my child that THEY are correct and her parents are wrong. That’s not appropriate in my opinion and that’s my biggest problem.

Can parents be wrong? Yup. Especially in matters like this. I am friends with people that run the retreats and other programs that Steubenville runs. Nothing is staged… Nothing is done for dramatic flair. Everything is Christ centered. Do you think the Apostles were kinda freaked out when the Holy Spirit came upon them? Very freaked! And thew knew Jesus and saw his miracles. I am not sure about Benedict, put John Paul II thought Steubenville was super.

Just because someone is a parent does not make them right and all knowing. If it was that way, I would be out of a job. You are to be comended about your concern for your daughter and are a shining example of a parent’s love. I feel your outlook on all this would be different if you were there. It is so cool when parents go along as chaperones. Many times they get the most out of a weekend like that because they are in a different mind set going into it.

 

[BlessedMomof2]

but Dave, lets flip this. Suppose my child attended a Protestant youth revival thing and the youth leaders there told my child that the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in this or the catholic church is wrong, but hey that’s ok, we believe in it and if your parents don’t “get it” we’ll explain it? How would that go over?

What if your child had a teacher at school who talked positively about abortion and said “well, hey, your parents might not approve but it’s ok for you to think about it”

What happened to Honoring your Father and Mother? What happened to instilling faith in my child being MY primary job? What happened to ME being the teacher for MY child? Not some youth leader who’s nothing more than another parent with no real credentials.

Like I said, my basis of this thread wasn’t to bash the steubenville program. If I find it not appropriate for my family, then my family will no longer participate. If other people believe in it, then more power to them. Not my problem. My problem is the way the youth leaders handled the events and the subsequent fallout that I’m facing with my child.

 

[lotusblossom]

Like I said, my basis of this thread wasn’t to bash the steubenville program. If I find it not appropriate for my family, then my family will no longer participate. If other people believe in it, then more power to them. Not my problem. My problem is the way the youth leaders handled the events and the subsequent fallout that I’m facing with my child.

Blessed,

I think you’ve answered your own questions - this kind of conference is NOT for your family. You do know your daughter best and now that she’s rested and can talk about it with a clearer mind, you see that. Not everyone likes the charistmatic movement, but in your original post, you asked if what happened at the conference was still in-line with the Church (am I correct?). Those who are pro-Steubenville were merely attempting you show you that they were or that sometimes when weird things happen, they aren’t the fault of Steubenville conference organizers themselves. Teens are emotional, but sometimes it’s just that that gets their foot in the door. I know MANY (including myself) teens who followed their emotions at these conferences, changed for the better, and because of this found the beauty in ALL the Catholic Church - esp. the more “traditional” things. Because of this conference, I no longer grumbled that the music was bad at our parish, I learned to focus on what’s important - the Mass itself, to not criticize priests, been open to Latin Mass, praying the Rosary and Divine Mercy chaplet more often and by myself (as opposed to my parents forcing me to), going to Adoration and spending that quiet prayer time with Jesus, etc. I’m sorry your daughter had such a negative experience. Maybe you can show her more of the beauty you see in the Catholic Church as a result of this. And maybe you could speak up about the youth leaders’ actions, so that the kids won’t be so confused next time around, even if your family doesn’t participate.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ve yet to see the good. I see a 15 year old who is still pretty disturbed by the whole experience. I see a leader who has led these children to believe that the leader and the experiences at steubenville are correct and has set them up to expect that their parents are idiots. That sounds like a cult to me.

REally? they said “your parents are idiots”? and now you are saying its cult, but then later you say you are not bashing steubenville.

Sounds like you’ve got some chaperone issues, not steubenville issues. You say you’ve yet to see the good…however, the way you are taking any feedback here is turning it negative. Perhaps youare doing the same with the stuff you are hearing from your daughter? You are purposely NOT listening or acknowledging all of the good that is mentioned here.

It is not cultish. It is very open. Steub tells group leaders to share with the parents everything before and after. Nothing is secretive.

By the way, the spot for “Adoration” is listed as 3 hours, but really less than an hour is spent in it, if even that much. there is 1/2 hour at least of music, then some summaries of the day, then some more music, then calling upon the holy spirit, then a 30-45 min talk, then adoration, then another summary/processing, sending music.

 

[agapewolf]

Blessed,

I think you’ve answered your own questions - this kind of conference is NOT for your family. You do know your daughter best and now that she’s rested and can talk about it with a clearer mind, you see that. Not everyone likes the charistmatic movement, but in your original post, you asked if what happened at the conference was still in-line with the Church (am I correct?). Those who are pro-Steubenville were merely attempting you show you that they were or that sometimes when weird things happen, they aren’t the fault of Steubenville conference organizers themselves. Teens are emotional, but sometimes it’s just that that gets their foot in the door. I know MANY (including myself) teens who followed their emotions at these conferences, changed for the better, and because of this found the beauty in ALL the Catholic Church - esp. the more “traditional” things. Because of this conference, I no longer grumbled that the music was bad at our parish, I learned to focus on what’s important - the Mass itself, to not criticize priests, been open to Latin Mass, praying the Rosary and Divine Mercy chaplet more often and by myself (as opposed to my parents forcing me to), going to Adoration and spending that quiet prayer time with Jesus, etc. I’m sorry your daughter had such a negative experience. Maybe you can show her more of the beauty you see in the Catholic Church as a result of this. And maybe you could speak up about the youth leaders’ actions, so that the kids won’t be so confused next time around, even if your family doesn’t participate.

The same thing happened to me! After attending Stueb as a youth minister, I was able to go to quiet daily adoration and spend lots of time there, go to quiet daily mass and understand the heart of it all. I became more involved in my devotions, etc.

 

[masha]

I’m sorry your daughter had such a negative experience. I graduated from Stuebenville a few years ago and I can defiantely see how some of the goings at the University and it’s confrences can be disturbing.

Stuebenville has a lot of great programs, and it has done a lot to revive the Catholic faith of a lot of people, especially the teens who go to the confrences. But, like you, I’m not a fan of the Charismatic movement. A lot of the leaders I encountered in Steubenville were not entirely orthodox in their Catholicism. I’m sure it had a lot to do with the Charismatic movement itself, which is too focused on emotion and extreme experiences. That’s not to say its cultish or wrong, its just limited.

The biggest problem with Steubenville, is that a lot of Catholics see it as being unquestionably orthodox. It isn’t. Stuebenville is better than a lot of Catholic colleges, because it does care deeply about being a good, faithful, Catholic college, but it isn’t prefect. The students, the faculty, the administration, and the confrences fall short. There is a tendency at Steubenville to push the charismatic movement - I’ve heard quite a few say that all Catholics ought to speak in tongues, that we should practice speaking in tongues, that they have to go to Pentacostal churches after Mass to get “fed” because their home parish was not Charismatic. These are problematic ideas, these aren’t Catholic ideas.

If you see Steubenville as a reasonably orthodox charismatic Catholic institution, take the good from it, and leave the bad, you’ll do well. The teen confrences are unstable, but some of the adult & educational confrences are decent.

 

[mynameismeg]

Dear Blessed,

I don’t think anyone else has said this, but here’s my two cents. I’m not meaning to generalize this to all kids, by any means, but there are some kids who go who have never been to adoration before, or have a real lot of stuff going on in their lives, and do melt down. Unfortunately, I think what else happens is that others around them think that htis is what is supposed to happen, and it can become massive emotion-fest, although this is not what is supposed to happen. Adults are supposed to step in and keep things from getting to this point, and allow the kids to pray.

The Holy Spirit does work pretty powerfully in some kids, and some major healing may be going on, and a teen may cry, which is not an unusual reaction to God’s healing touch in our lives. Out of control hysterical crying and screaming is not a usual response, and really not an appropriate response, but some kids don’t know how to respond, and respond how others around them are, or how they heard so-and-so did a few years back, etc. I’m in no way saying that your teen or the teens from your parish are in this boat, but if others around them are, they certainly would have seen/been affected by it. The adults (both from your parishes and Steubenville staff) should have acted to avoid the mass hysteria you described. But you are right, they often aren’t adequately trained, and are tired themselves, and overwhelmed, and may not calm someone down like they ought.

If your daughter did not have a good experience and you are concerned, then I think that you should really talk to your parish youth minister. Be open and honest with him/her, tell them your concerns, your dissappointments, etc. They may not be aware of this, and can have a post-conference meeting to address these concerns, or Adoration done correctly, etc. But be gentle with them, and give them and the other adults the benefit of the doubt. They might not be aware of some of the bad experiences some teens had. Often times the kids that had a wonderful time talk about it constantly, and sometimes the kids that didn’t don’t get the chance to really voice it. So please call and talk to your youth minister. I urge you to have an open line of communication with them. I also say don’t go to the parish priest until you talk to the youth minister (unless the priest was on the trip) as your youth minister may feel betrayed or feelings hurt that you didn’t share your concerns with them first. So, my advice to you is to call your YM up and ask to chat with them. And it’s also a good idea to pray before you do, that you may speak charitably and they may do the same, and that you may both be open to hearing what the other has to say. Good luck, and I’ll be praying for you and your daughter!

 

[GraceDK]

Hmmm… interesting thread… Now I wanna go to Steubenville even more than before… I have it like this. If everyone is at total ease and nothing new and shocking happens… nothing that scares people or gets them emotional or anything of the sort… then I know that the Holy Spirit is not running the show, man is.

But thats just me and my interpretation of the NT… back then there was some action going on.

Everyone is entitled to have another oppinion of course…
But I think that the critique stated here about Steubenville retreats can be given about any pilgrimage I have been on… people are exhausted after long walks and hours of prayer… then they weep and have conversion experiences… they say the see Jesus and Mary… and what about the saints? They did neither sleep nor eat. My professor also said thats why they were hallucinating and thought God spoke to them… jugding from the reasoning of this thread, maybe he was right … Just a thought.

 

[maria29]

**Again as someone who used to work for conferences it can be a mixture of two things one the kids are tired, etc. But this is the fault of chaperones not Stuebenville.

Again as I posted earlier, I find it interesting that people don’t believe that Satan would attack at these kind of things. Think about how many souls he stands to lose and you don’t think there will be spiritual warfare?

And if these conferences are truly not Catholic then one wouldn’t see these types of attacks, etc. In fact I think Satan would be pleased because Stuebenville would be leading teens away from the Church.

I’m not Charismatic at all and in fact have never wanted any of the gifts. THat being said, I never felt the Charismatic influence was heavy on campus. In fact if anything it went towards the other way. **

 

[dconklin]

but Dave, lets flip this. Suppose my child attended a Protestant youth revival thing and the youth leaders there told my child that the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in this or the catholic church is wrong, but hey that’s ok, we believe in it and if your parents don’t “get it” we’ll explain it? How would that go over?

The simple difference between what we have been trying to let you know and what a Protestant preacher might say is the truth. Sure, things may not have gone as gracefully at the adoration as the noon mass at a catherdral, but Jesus and the Holy Spirit were there. The YM may have goofed, but I am not sure where. He could have covered everything up or sugarcoated it - but that would be wrong. A priest did anoint the boy and that seemed to “fix” everything.

Parents definately are supposed to be the primary catechists. You are an awesome parent and obviously love your daughter and the Lord. You may not, however, be up to snuff on church doctrine. Just because something does not happen at your church, does not make it wrong. You say the YM is just another parent. If they are just parents, cut them some slack - because they are just parents. You did trust them to take your daughter away (out of state?) for a weekend.

It seems you are fired up because they offered to explain the events to you. It is not like they made everyone swear to not tell their parents. I hope your reaction has not scared your daughter away from telling you further things. The parent-child bond is very wonderful but it is also just as fragile.

When you start a thread and ask questions people may give you answers that you may not agreee with. That does not make them wrong.

So, here are my questions:

1. Steubenville - I guess I should have googled more before I let her go, they are charismatic, but are they “wrong”? Are they violating anything in our Church?
2. should I have a discussion with the leaders and possibly bring in our parish priest?
3. what documentation do I have to prove that this was wrong - and was it wrong? I know it doesn’t feel right. I prayed last night and every answer I got was that it wasn’t right. I kept getting more and more reasons in my head over and over why it wasn’t right. And I was led here to ask more I think.

So anyone have words of wisdom for me? I’m sorry this was so long. I’m not trying to debate the whole charismatic movement here. That’s not my intent. My intent is to make sure that my child is ok, that she is not afraid of God and that she is not being led down the wrong path.

1 - I think we have shown they were not wrong. 2 - Definately have a dialog with the YM - but have an open heart and mind. 3 - Be careful of what you pray for. It is not always what you want.