Teenagers and Church Music

[muffinmojo]

Another teenager who adores Gregorian chant, polyphony, the pipe organ, traditional hymns, etc. Though I must say, I’m not a Gregorian purist, and I find that my favorite hymns are Sicut Cervus and ‘Only Begotten Word of God Eternal’(gotta love those english processional hymns).

Modern music isn’t all bad, but it’s not appropriate for Mass, ever. Not because it is new, but because the style that currently is ‘new’ is inappropriate, no matter when it was written. That, and the folky stuff is just sickening.

 

[aloysiusg]

Modern music isn’t all bad, but it’s not appropriate for Mass, ever. Not because it is new, but because the style that currently is ‘new’ is inappropriate, no matter when it was written.

So was chant inappropriate when it was first written since, at the time, it was new? What about polyphony? Was it inappropriate when it was new?

All generalizations are bad.

 

[Jimsdun]

So was chant inappropriate when it was first written since, at the time, it was new? What about polyphony? Was it inappropriate when it was new?

All generalizations are bad.

New doesn’t necessarily mean bad. It is more the context or the quality. And the quality of much of the new stuff leaves much to be desired. Of course, most of the “new” music is written by atheists and protestants.

 

[Jimsdun]

Getting back to the matter at hand, rather than debating which type of music is appropriate or not for mass: Rather, I think there was a progression that was well-intentioned but misguided, and has led to the mess that exists now:

1. Teenagers losing interest in mass.
2. The Powers-that-be (PTB) mistakenly think that rhe only reason teenagers lose interest in mass is that the music is too dull for them.
3. PTB call on their music directors to introduce rock music to the mass in order to reverse this trend.
4. That may have slowed the exodus, and it may have brought some new ones back to mass, but those who attend for the rock music are only there to be entertained, and that is the wong reason for attending mass.

 

[japhy]

Modern music isn’t all bad, but it’s not appropriate for Mass, ever. Not because it is new, but because the style that currently is ‘new’ is inappropriate, no matter when it was written.

So was chant inappropriate when it was first written since, at the time, it was new? What about polyphony? Was it inappropriate when it was new?

aloysiusg, muffinmojo said that “the style that currently is ‘new’ is inappopriate, no matter when it was written”. In other words, music that is written in particular styles is inappropriate for Mass, not because of when it was written, but because of the style. Chant has always been proper and appropriate. Polyphony has not, because for a while it was tainted by secular influences and bawdy arrangements.

 

[aloysiusg]

Of course, most of the “new” music is written by atheists and protestants.

The levels to which that line is offensive is truly astounding.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Getting back to the matter at hand, rather than debating which type of music is appropriate or not for mass: Rather, I think there was a progression that was well-intentioned but misguided, and has led to the mess that exists now:

1. Teenagers losing interest in mass.
2. The Powers-that-be (PTB) mistakenly think that rhe only reason teenagers lose interest in mass is that the music is too dull for them.
3. PTB call on their music directors to introduce rock music to the mass in order to reverse this trend.
4. That may have slowed the exodus, and it may have brought some new ones back to mass, but those who attend for the rock music are only there to be entertained, and that is the wong reason for attending mass.

The sad truth.

I have come to the same conclusions myself, too many PTB (as you call them ) think the lack of interest is because the Mass is seen as “boring” by people of all ages. The “solution” is to appeal and CONTINUE to appeal to their “tastes” in order to bring them back. The mess we are in now is due to the fact too many continue to appeal without realizing where such an attitude is taking them and totally confuses what Mass is. But the real killer is that what ends up happening is that the truly faithful end up getting alienated and hurt and forced to suffer while those who are being appealed to end up getting tired in the end and have no problem leaving when they get bored again.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The levels to which that line is offensive is truly astounding.

I can see how that can be offensive, but there is truth behind it. Many of today’s “music” writers do not have a solid Catholic foundation from which they build their music off of, or worse yet they are heavily influenced by the Protestant Pop music market which when put in a Catholic setting both waters down Catholic truths or even implicitly undermines them.

Also this reminds me of a thread a few years ago where -if memory serves me correctly- one of the big name modern Catholic music writers who was a Jesuit ended up coming out of the closet and leaving the faith a few years ago.

 

[bknebel]

Honestly, give kids true honest Catholicism, not just watered down fluff… they’ll notice the truth and want it.

Example,

one of my kids in my youth group insists she’s pro-choice. but yet, she wants to hear my stance more and more and more. she wants to hear the truth and i give it to her.

I say give the truth, not just what you think they want. They will crave the truth. The truth will set them (and us) free!

 

[Jimsdun]

The levels to which that line is offensive is truly astounding.

I’m sorry that the truth offends you.

 

[Jimsdun]

I can see how that can be offensive, but there is truth behind it. Many of today’s “music” writers do not have a solid Catholic foundation from which they build their music off of, or worse yet they are heavily influenced by the Protestant Pop music market which when put in a Catholic setting both waters down Catholic truths or even implicitly undermines them.

Also this reminds me of a thread a few years ago where -if memory serves me correctly- one of the big name modern Catholic music writers who was a Jesuit ended up coming out of the closet and leaving the faith a few years ago.

Most of Christian pop tunes are written by Protestants, and many lyrics contain distinctive Protestant doctrines. Many others are recycled secular pop tunes (that didn’t make it to the charts), which have had the lyrics reworked.

 

[VociMike]

Those who prefer the contemporary Christian music are generally the middle-aged who felt they missed out and are trying to recapture their youth by pretending to be Jesus freak hippies. That was pretty much out of vogue by 1980.

It’s almost comical to see these receding hairlines and expanding waistlines trying to act and dress like teenagers.

I was very surprised when I went (unknowningly) to my first Life Teen Mass a few years ago and saw that the average age of the congregation was about 55.

 

[Cat]

Those who prefer the contemporary Christian music are generally the middle-aged who felt they missed out and are trying to recapture their youth by pretending to be Jesus freak hippies. That was pretty much out of vogue by 1980.

It’s almost comical to see these receding hairlines and expanding waistlines trying to act and dress like teenagers.

C’mon. Be nice.

You know, there’s nothing wrong or sinful with liking the music that you grew up with, and there’s nothing wrong or sinful with adults who remember their youth with fondness and try to recapture some of those happy times.

I met my husband back in 1973, when he was 15 and I was 16. These were some of the happiest days of my life.

The 70s was a great time to be teenager–no war (out of Viet Nam by 1972) and lots of hope for the future. Great economy, marriage was still pretty strong and lots of good television shows that to this day, are very watchable by young children (e.g., The Brady Bunch). It all ended with Watergate, which as far as I’m concerned, was when everything fell apart and the nation slid into a mess. Thankfully I was old enough then to process it and let it go, but for the younger teenagers, it must have been horrific and I’m sure they are still injured in their souls from that awful time.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you say “trying to act and dress like teenagers.” The look of the 1970s is very much in style today. It was a natural look with minimal makeup, simple hair, and comfortable non-fussy clothing (jeans, t-shirts, sweat-shirts, knee-length dresses and skirts, and of course, layers!). There is nothing wrong or immodest with this look. I’m glad that it’s back in style for a while.

And there is nothing wrong with loving the music that you grew up with.

Many of you who grew up with chant and other traditional church music love that kind of music.

I grew up playing classical piano, and I love that kind of music.

But I also grew up listening to the 60s and 70s rock, and I’ll admit that I like it and I get these old albums (LPs!) out once in while and “relive my youth!” A lot of senior citizens do this–it’s just what a person does as they get older. There is nothing to criticize in this unless a person loses touch with reality and the present and actually thinks they are back in those times. And even then, our reaction should not be “criticism” but pity and concern for someone who is obviously suffering from a mental disorder.

I especially like the Christian rock music of those times (Larry Norman–God rest his soul, Randy Stonehill, Ralph Carmichael, etc.). As far as I’m concerned, Christian Rock Music died when 2nd Chapter of Acts disbanded! (Sorry to all the Jars of Clay and other current CCM group fans out there–or is Jars of Clay now “out” along with all the other oldsters?! I don’t keep up.)

And there are still Jesus People. jpusa.org/

Many of the Jesus “freaks” grew up to be excellent Christian teachers, preachers, musicians, and just plain ol’ workin’ family folks. It was a wonderful era. These Christians were able (and still are) able to witness to young people in a way that the “establishment” couldn’t.

In a way, the Jesus freaks and Jesus people were and still are modelled after the Catholic “religious” communities. So why run them down? If they’re not against us, they’re for us!

I say live and let live.

I will agree, though, that this “boomer music” is not going to attract teenagers to church, either Protestant or Catholic. The love of God, both the Love that Christ pours out on us, and the love that Christians manifest actively toward each other, is what attracts teenagers to church.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I was very surprised when I went (unknowningly) to my first Life Teen Mass a few years ago and saw that the average age of the congregation was about 55.

Are you serious?

 

[brotherhrolf]

Cat, you make Bro feel like one old dude. In 1972 I was in the Navy at age 21. By that time I was stationed just outside Chicago and I got to go to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (conducted by Sir Georg Solti) and they were doing Mahler (the whole two years I was stationed there). The soundtrack of my youth is evidently something quite different.

Does it count if I tell you I did get to see the Broadway production of Jesus Christ Superstar? (I did). But other than that, I did not listen to the music my generation did. But I married a hippie chick .

Thirty years later, I know which music will “set her off” and she knows which music will “set me off”. It’s too bad we can’t have the same kind of agreement when it comes to Mass.

 

[Jimsdun]

C’mon. Be nice.

You know, there’s nothing wrong or sinful with liking the music that you grew up with, and there’s nothing wrong or sinful with adults who remember their youth with fondness and try to recapture some of those happy times.

I met my husband back in 1973, when he was 15 and I was 16. These were some of the happiest days of my life.

The 70s was a great time to be teenager–no war (out of Viet Nam by 1972) and lots of hope for the future. Great economy, marriage was still pretty strong and lots of good television shows that to this day, are very watchable by young children (e.g., The Brady Bunch). It all ended with Watergate, which as far as I’m concerned, was when everything fell apart and the nation slid into a mess. Thankfully I was old enough then to process it and let it go, but for the younger teenagers, it must have been horrific and I’m sure they are still injured in their souls from that awful time.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you say “trying to act and dress like teenagers.” The look of the 1970s is very much in style today. It was a natural look with minimal makeup, simple hair, and comfortable non-fussy clothing (jeans, t-shirts, sweat-shirts, knee-length dresses and skirts, and of course, layers!). There is nothing wrong or immodest with this look. I’m glad that it’s back in style for a while.

And there is nothing wrong with loving the music that you grew up with.

Many of you who grew up with chant and other traditional church music love that kind of music.

I grew up playing classical piano, and I love that kind of music.

But I also grew up listening to the 60s and 70s rock, and I’ll admit that I like it and I get these old albums (LPs!) out once in while and “relive my youth!” A lot of senior citizens do this–it’s just what a person does as they get older. There is nothing to criticize in this unless a person loses touch with reality and the present and actually thinks they are back in those times. And even then, our reaction should not be “criticism” but pity and concern for someone who is obviously suffering from a mental disorder.

I especially like the Christian rock music of those times (Larry Norman–God rest his soul, Randy Stonehill, Ralph Carmichael, etc.). As far as I’m concerned, Christian Rock Music died when 2nd Chapter of Acts disbanded! (Sorry to all the Jars of Clay and other current CCM group fans out there–or is Jars of Clay now “out” along with all the other oldsters?! I don’t keep up.)

And there are still Jesus People. jpusa.org/

Many of the Jesus “freaks” grew up to be excellent Christian teachers, preachers, musicians, and just plain ol’ workin’ family folks. It was a wonderful era. These Christians were able (and still are) able to witness to young people in a way that the “establishment” couldn’t.

In a way, the Jesus freaks and Jesus people were and still are modelled after the Catholic “religious” communities. So why run them down? If they’re not against us, they’re for us!

I say live and let live.

I will agree, though, that this “boomer music” is not going to attract teenagers to church, either Protestant or Catholic. The love of God, both the Love that Christ pours out on us, and the love that Christians manifest actively toward each other, is what attracts teenagers to church.

Cat you seem to be about the same age as me, and I had a great time listening to 70s music like the Eagles, Led Zeppelin and Elton John. I still love the music of that era. However, in my assessment, Christian rock was pretty lame in those days. I was not a fan of Larry Norman, (The only halfway decent Christian group was Daniel Amos; a Marshall Tucker Band imitation). I had experiences with the Jesus freaks in those days and they really let me down. Talk about backstabbers. I’m sorry, but my experiences with the Jesus people of that era was not a good one.

At the same time, I also liked the classic religious music. When I was growing up e had often attended the organ concerts at the Presbyterian church.

I’m 50 years old and accept my age. I don’t try to act like I’m 20.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Cat you seem to be about the same age as me, and I had a great time listening to 70s music like the Eagles, Led Zeppelin and Elton John. I still love the music of that era. However, in my assessment, Christian rock was pretty lame in those days. I was not a fan of Larry Norman, (The only halfway decent Christian group was Daniel Amos; a Marshall Tucker Band imitation). I had experiences with the Jesus freaks in those days and they really let me down. Talk about backstabbers. I’m sorry, but my experiences with the Jesus people of that era was not a good one.

At the same time, I also liked the classic religious music. When I was growing up e had often attended the organ concerts at the Presbyterian church.

I’m 50 years old and accept my age. I don’t try to act like I’m 20.

I LOVE “oldies” music (mid 50s to mid 70s), it is the best music ever, that is all I listen to on the radio…the thing is, as you would agree, it (that style of music) does NOT belong being played during Mass.

 

[Jimsdun]

I LOVE “oldies” music (mid 50s to mid 70s), it is the best music ever, that is all I listen to on the radio…the thing is, as you would agree, it (that style of music) does NOT belong being played during Mass.

I agree. Somebody came up with the idea of putting pineapples on pizza. I like pineapples and I like pizza but for my tastes, they don’t mix well. OK, some people like pineapples on pizza.

I like wine and I like ice cream, but they don’t go together well

 

[Cat]

I LOVE “oldies” music (mid 50s to mid 70s), it is the best music ever, that is all I listen to on the radio…the thing is, as you would agree, it (that style of music) does NOT belong being played during Mass.

Why not? Personal preference.

I think what is difficult is to find songs written in this style that are appropriate for Mass. Personally, I think that a lot of the Ralph Carmichael music would be very appropriate. Here’s a link to the song “He’s Everything To Me.” angelfire.com/co2/inspiration/everything.html

Or the song Pass It On by Kurt Kaiser my.homewithgod.com/heavenlymidis2/pass.html

In fact, reading and singing through these lyrics this morning, I find that they mean even MORE to me as a Catholic than they ever did when I was evangelical Protestant! Wow!

 

[Cat]

I agree. Somebody came up with the idea of putting pineapples on pizza. I like pineapples and I like pizza but for my tastes, they don’t mix well. OK, some people like pineapples on pizza.

I like wine and I like ice cream, but they don’t go together well

Personal preference.

My husband and I loved pineapples on pizza back in the 1970s when we first saw it at Pizza Villa in Dekalb, IL while were we at NIU.

We still do. Our whole family does. Personal preference.

I don’t like wine or any alcoholic beverage and I would have been in the vanguard with Carrie Nation and her hatchet ladies. Definitely personal preference, right?!

Personal preference, thank goodness, is not the meterstick used to determine what music is appropriate for Mass and what isn’t.