Teens and young adults, please respond! about Mass . .

[UKcatholicGuy]

I went to my first LifeTeen Mass tonight just to see what it was like. To be fair, I did not see any noticeable abuse go on (aside from the now-gernerally-accepted holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer), but I still didn’t like it. The music was loud and literally every single song was a protestant christian contemporary song. Keep in mind I’m a 20 yr old college student! Even the Alleluja (sp?) for the Gospel was taken from a section of a contemporary prot. rock song!

Here’s the thing, I’m saying that the Mass wasn’t just as pleasing to God as a Latin Mass or perfectly-done New Mass-- not at all. Woe to me if I ever become so proud as to decide who worships God the most. Only God knows men’s hearts.

But I’m saddened by the LifeTeen Masses because they miss the point: for some reason Catholic Churches are feeling this enormous pressure to become protestant. Why??

There would be absolutely no need for protestant music to bring in teens to Catholic Masses if the DOGMA OF THE TRUE PRESENCE was properly taught. There ain’t a non-Catholic Church in the world that can compete with the Real Presence! I don’t care how many guitars they have!

It breaks my heart to think that Catholic Church leaders are giving into loud, secular, uninspiring rock music for Mass. This shows that most people don’t really believe in the Real Presence. If they did, they wouldnt give a hoot about the music selection!

Also, after the Mass, everyone clapped for the band, as if the music was performed for the teens. IT’S PERFORMED FOR GOD, or at least it used to be . . .

I pray for our Church, it’s going down hill. We need all orthodox young adults to stand up and tell the Church leaders that we don’t want some watered-down Protestantized version of Mass–give us the Real stuff!

Thoughts?

 

[Genesis315]

I am 23 and I have never been to a LifeTeen Mass. I go to the TLM so you can safely say I’m pretty traditional. A few weeks ago, the young adults group at my parish (mainly 20 somethings, married and single) went to something called XLT Adoration (I go to regular Adoration almost every week). It was mainly geared for the Lifeteen Crowd, but there were some people of different ages, even some senior citizens. It started with 30 minutes of praise, followed by a 30 minute talk, and 30 minutes of Adoration.

Now, the 30 minutes of praise made me feel uncomfortable to say the least. It was similar to the music you described with a lots of hand motions and swaying and stuff. I’m not saying this is bad, just not my style so to speak.

The second 30 minutes, a talk, was given by a couple women from another parish. They made sure at the beginning to say that they are not priests or theologians. They did, however, give an awesome talk about the Real Presence and how powerful an experience Adoration is. I especially liked the mention of when the Apostles fell asleep and Jesus admonished them for not being able to spend an hour with him (can we not spend an hour in Adoration with Jesus?)

Then, the priest set up the monstrance and incensed it and everything. They did play some music during Adoration, which I wasn’t a big fan of, but it wasn’t all that bad.

Anyway, overall,. I thought they did an excellent job of focusing on the Real Presence and I think the kids there could appreciate it. If I were running the show, I would have prayed the Rosary with the Sorrowful Mysteries (it was Tuesday) instead of the praise session, especially given the content of the little talk. But that’s just more my style I guess. Like I said, overall it was a good experience and the truth of the Real Presence was definitely driven home.

 

[A.Pelliccio]

It’s sad. I am a 19 year old catholic. I totally am orthodox in my belief system and attend the TLM whenever possible. With that said I live in almost a contstant state of sin between lust, pornography, masturbation, ect. It’s really tough to conquer these sins for me.

With that said I am also a huge metal head, but guitars and GOD dont mix. I totally am for the organ, choir, chants ect. It makes me “heated” to see this go on at church.

The problem is at the foundations at the lack of education for Catholics. I went to Catechism for 8 years and all I learned were generilizations. “Jesus loves you”, “the Lord wants you to share”, ect. Nothing was EVER taught about , “why are we Catholics”, “why we are the one true church”, "what makes us differnt from say other ‘denominations’ ", ect. So children are unprepared to go out into the world and defend their faith. So thats why when something small happends their faith cracks because its not built on the rock.

 

[pnewton]

I had to attend my one and only LifeTeen last summer. I like the approach you have taken. So often we get narrow of mind and call what we do not like “wrong” based on personal dislike. What you have raised where legitimate questions of how prudence and not validity. I am anxious to see what some LifeTeen people have to say.

 

[UKcatholicGuy]

OOPS! I made a big typo on my original post! Here:

Here’s the thing, I’m saying that the Mass wasn’t just as pleasing to God as a Latin Mass or perfectly-done New Mass-- not at all. Woe to me if I ever become so proud as to decide who worships God the most. Only God knows men’s hearts.

It should read that I’m NOT SAYING that the mass wasnt’ as pleasing . . . etc

Sorry about that!

 

[Catholic2003]

UKcatholicGuy:

But I’m saddened by the LifeTeen Masses because they miss the point: for some reason Catholic Churches are feeling this enormous pressure to become protestant. Why??

From Unitatis Redintegratio:

1. The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to men as the true inheritors of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but differ in mind and go their different ways, as if Christ Himself were divided. Such division openly contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the holy cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.

…

1. Today, in many parts of the world, under the inspiring grace of the Holy Spirit, many efforts are being made in prayer, word and action to attain that fullness of unity which Jesus Christ desires. The Sacred Council exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism.

 

[Genesis315]

A.Pelliccio:

With that said I live in almost a contstant state of sin between lust, pornography, masturbation, ect. It’s really tough to conquer these sins for me.

With that said I am also a huge metal head,

Not to hijack the thread, but if you get rid of the metal, it might help. That stuff really is not good for the soul. Those are some tough sins to beat and you need all the help you can get. It’s better to bring elements into our life that bring us grace and remind us of Jesus and Mary instead of things like heavy metal which definitely point away from them. Some of the rhythms and beats in heavy rock are geared to subliminally cause a sexual response. Fr. Corapi (whose life was once entrenched in sex, drugs, and heavy metal) gave a talk about it once. Just a thought.

 

[Windmill]

hey you guys. quit complaining and DO something

I helped start a men’s chant group. Know what? We are so in demand here in our area that we are having to turn churches down for appearances. Am I bragging about us? No. My point is to say that there is a huge hunger for reverence and people will respond.

Rich

 

[Genesis315]

Windmill:

hey you guys. quit complaining and DO something

I helped start a men’s chant group. Know what? We are so in demand here in our area that we are having to turn churches down for appearances. Am I bragging about us? No. My point is to say that there is a huge hunger for reverence and people will respond.

Rich

The choir that sings the chant at the TLM I attend is made up of almost all teenagers and they are amazing! So it’s true, teens don’t need all the hokey music to get interested

 

[luvthelight]

hey - i cant say that i have been to a lifeteen mass - but i do understand where u r coming from. i too am orthodox in my views of the mass, n im gladt o say that my parish, for the most part, does not have any liturgical abuses. im 17, n i see there being two types of christian (catholic music), both of whih i love. gospel music is for church - its supposed to be beautiful and filled with love, the christian rock type is for home.

a note about the kids not being taught enough about the depth of the church - I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!! im an assistant ccd teacher for second grade, and i greatly respect the head teacher, but sometimes i want to bang my head against a wall. we dont refer back to the bible for passages about the Last Supper and “this IS my body” things like that. the one pet peeve i have about my church is the ccd program isnt that strong. i no i waz almost lost b4 i found this site, and it makes me nervous how many kids may NOT have found this site n become lax catholics or worse. so yeah - im hoping to become a head teacher next year for perhaps an older grade so i can get more in depth w/ apologetics 101 lol. jus give them a stronger basis for the faith ya know?

 

[Prometheum_x]

pnewton:

I had to attend my one and only LifeTeen last summer. I like the approach you have taken. So often we get narrow of mind and call what we do not like “wrong” based on personal dislike. What you have raised where legitimate questions of how prudence and not validity. I am anxious to see what some LifeTeen people have to say.

21year old, orthodox Lifeteen person reporting:

Actually, since I am the Lifeteen music coordinator at my parish, I certainly have some things to say in response.

1. First of all, my favorite music would have to be music from around the renaissance period – Tallis, Victoria, etc. Four part SATB a capella music from that time period. . . nothing better in my mind. That’s coming from a pianist.
2. I’m intruiged by this idea of “protestant” music. Does that include “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross” or the Bach-Gounod “Ave Maria”? Charles Gounod took one of Bach’s preludes from the “Well Tempered Klavier” collection and simply wrote a melody to go along with it. (I realize that “Ave Maria” isn’t typically sung at Mass). I could greatly expand the list of “protestant” songs used by Catholic churches since long before. The Church has never been afraid of adopting symbols from the culture and “baptizing” them, so to speak.

Quite frankly I think the “protestant music” argument is a bit of an ad hominem. It is a convenient expression that helps us avoid the difficulty of identifying the characteristics of music which make it more or less appropriate for the Liturgy.

1. Aesthetics of music. The first post on this thread mentioned music that is “loud, secular, uninspiring rock music.” Organs and large choirs can be quite loud, and I have heard plenty of uninspiring organists and choirs. What would happen if someone played quiet, sacred, inspiring rock music? Impossible? Then I would want to know a) the definition of “rock music” and b) what it is about rock music the keeps it from being sacred or inspiring.
2. In that same post (actually, in the following line) it is stated: “This shows that most people don’t really believe in the Real Presence. If they did, they wouldnt give a hoot about the music selection!” It is true that the music selection doesn’t make the mass any more or less valid, but music does matter in another way, just as statues, icons, incense, bells, and stained glass matter. They are all intended to engage the physical senses and draw our thoughts towards heavenly things.

My job as Lifeteen music coordinator is to facilitate that with music. I for one am very leery of using anything directly from the secular music culture – or even some of contemporary Christian music culture – because it has become so commercialized. Assuming I have weeded out theologically suspect music and trite drivel, I must be sensitive to several things: the quality of the music itself (tempo, key, difficulty), its harmony with the texts of the Liturgy for the day, and how well the people at Mass will be able to participate in the music. There is an important place for education – I would love to find a way of introducing some ancient musical treasures into the Lifeteen mass – but it takes time to help people appreciate and even enjoy music of different eras and cultures.

 

[UKcatholicGuy]

Prome,

thanks for some (name removed by moderator)ut from “the inside.”

To answer your question, when I say “protesant music”, I’m talking about the “me and Jesus” music that has no substance to it. Traditional Catholic hymns, on the other hand, usually convey some part of Catholic doctrine.

Especially during Communion I think it’s incredibly important you have a song that emphasizes that we are literally consuming Jesus. Was that the case at the LifeTeen Mass I attended? Nope! It had nothing whatsoever to do with Communion, as it was written by someone who views the Real Presence as idolatry!

Contemporary protestant music is doing just fine and making billions of dollars without support from the Catholic Church. Why wouldnt you want to “help your own” so to speak? Introduce us to some good Catholic artists! Ever heard of Sean Forest? He’s a wonderful contemporary Catholic singer, and his songs are about Church teaching such as the Eucharist, etc.

Also, why cant the band play from the choir loft? When they’re in the sanctuary it distracts from Jesus-- that’s Who I came to see. I don’t doubt your intentions are good, but LifeTeen Masses are insulting to teens. It suggests teens are too immature to “endure” an “adult” mass. I don’t get it. My parents didn’t allow me to go to children’s church past age 10. Teens today are tired of the watered-down teaching they get from the world. They want the Truth.

 

[pnewton]

21year old, orthodox Lifeteen person reporting:

Thank you for your time in composing such a well-organized post. Much of the problems and decisions you deal with are similar to what I or any other musician deals with in deciding what is best for Mass. At least you are in the trenches and doing the job. It is often easier to complain than to do.

 

[A.Pelliccio]

Can’t get rid of the Metal, like I said I don’t take any of it seriously. Most of it isnt that fake “devil worship” music anyway. On top of that the stuff that is , is just show business.

Metal really doesnt have an affect on my haveing a constant urge for lust. I think that the daily “soft core” sex I see on tv, women dressed scantily, and obviously most importantly my lack of will, are to blame.

And its not like I dont listen to religious music, my IPOD is full of traditional hymns, the Latin High Mass, sacred arias, ect. I just cant do that “Faith Plus One” type of music (if anyone watches South Park, you get this joke.)

 

[A_O]

I’m 14, never been to a LifeTeen Mass and I never want to. I struggle enough at the Kum-By-Yah local parish where the choir is constantly strumming a guitar and I’m older than most of the music.

I attend a parish that is further away but much more orthodox, and the liturgy is not so harshly abused. I recently converted and one of my major turnoffs in the process was the butchering of the mass at some parishes, it literally was damaging to my faith.

I’ve attended a Tridentine Mass once, beautiful! I wish more parishes would celebrate the 1962 Missal, or at least offer a respectful mass in the vernacular.

 

[A_O]

UKcatholicGuy:

…Teens today are tired of the watered-down teaching they get from the world. They want the Truth.

 

[Prometheum_x]

UKcatholicGuy:

To answer your question, when I say “protesant music”, I’m talking about the “me and Jesus” music that has no substance to it. Traditional Catholic hymns, on the other hand, usually convey some part of Catholic doctrine.

There is a lot of protestant music that has a great deal of substance in it. The protestants do not have a corner on the substance-lacking music market. One might be tempted to say that the bad Catholic music draws its inspiration from the bad protestant music, but that would be very hard to demonstrate and it is not very helpful. I propose instead that we treat each song according to its own individual merits and say, “This is a good song, that is a bad song, and this here is a questionable song.”

Especially during Communion I think it’s incredibly important you have a song that emphasizes that we are literally consuming Jesus. Was that the case at the LifeTeen Mass I attended? Nope! It had nothing whatsoever to do with Communion, as it was written by someone who views the Real Presence as idolatry!

Where is it indicated that the Communion hymn must be explicitly about the literal consumption of Jesus? Sometimes when I select music I will use music that is explicitly focused on that, other times it is music that is a song of general praise to God, or music that ties in with the Scripture readings for the day. As one who is concerned with making sure that I am in compliance with the litugical norms and since I am under the supervision of a music director who is also concerned with that, I would very much like to know if I am out of line in this area. Please direct me to the relevant documents.

Contemporary protestant music is doing just fine and making billions of dollars without support from the Catholic Church. Why wouldnt you want to “help your own” so to speak? Introduce us to some good Catholic artists! Ever heard of Sean Forest? He’s a wonderful contemporary Catholic singer, and his songs are about Church teaching such as the Eucharist, etc.

I’ll have to look up Sean Forest. A lot of contemporary music from the *"*artists" isn’t well suited for liturgical use, even the really good stuff, just because of how it is structured.

Also, why cant the band play from the choir loft? When they’re in the sanctuary it distracts from Jesus-- that’s Who I came to see. I don’t doubt your intentions are good, but LifeTeen Masses are insulting to teens. It suggests teens are too immature to “endure” an “adult” mass. I don’t get it. My parents didn’t allow me to go to children’s church past age 10. Teens today are tired of the watered-down teaching they get from the world. They want the Truth.

We don’t have a choir loft, but the musicians aren’t in the sanctuary either. We are off to one side, facing somewhat towards the altar. I’m not too sure how the “LifeTeen” Mass is insulting to teens though. The only thing that makes it “LifeTeen” is that the various lay assistants at mass (readers, ushers, musicians, altar servers) tend to be selected from among the youth. The music is mostly drawn from the collection that the parish uses in general, and we will use anything from chanted mass parts and hymns to more contemporary music. While we use the same music (with some exceptions), we tend to play it in a little more contemporary style, but always done in a way that is deemed appropriate to the Mass. Since the largest demographic group at the Sunday evening mass are those in highschool, the homilies tend to be directed towards them. And these are no watered down homilies. No. . . our pastor has actually told the families that come with young children that they should be warned that the subject matter may be a little too intense for young kids as it will often deal with the particular issues that teens face.

 

[Meggie]

As a Senior in high school I attended an abuse-free Lifeteen Mass Weekly. It was wonderful becuase it was both Solem(for Communion) and full of praise.

I don’t think its really about what kids like or what connects to teens. Lifeteen Masses are typically an hour fifteen minutes to nearly two hours long. As one teen remarked “I actually realize that I am at Mass”

I like long Masses…but you can’t really find them in my town…and Lifeteen in my town has created a bunch of Adoration lovers.
True story, After Mass

Father J- I need help cleaning the hall in preparation for such and such event…I would appreciate teen voulenteers…
-a coule of hands raised
Father J-there will be pizza
-one more
Father J-what is it you kids want now adays?
Youth group leader- Father, the teens like Adoration
Father J (grudgling and confused)-ok an hour of Adoration after you’re all done.
-more than a dozen hands went up…it was so amazing

That evening passed and two dozen youth had adoration after they voulenteered for Father…it was simply amazing…

When correctly done, Lifeteen creates great love for the Church…and the Lfieteen Mass gets them in