Teens sentenced to life w/o parole

[pnewton]

Public officials have huge responsibilites and are immune from being sued for their mistakes. Without that immunity no one would take the job.

But with immunity we have a far worse problem. Lack of accountability will invariably lead to a system where the worst of judges thrive. I disagree that lack of immunity would cause no one to take a job. Police have no immunity and are regularly sued. Yet there are those you are willing to take a stand against injustice and risk having to be accountable for mistakes. Doctors likewise incur a tremendous risk for making judgement calls about peoples’ lives.

The difference is that the most of the laws in this country are written by lawyers. Therefore, lawyers are the hardest to hold accountable.

 

[Trader]

But with immunity we have a far worse problem. Lack of accountability will invariably lead to a system where the worst of judges thrive. I disagree that lack of immunity would cause no one to take a job. Police have no immunity and are regularly sued. Yet there are those you are willing to take a stand against injustice and risk having to be accountable for mistakes. Doctors likewise incur a tremendous risk for making judgement calls about peoples’ lives.

The difference is that the most of the laws in this country are written by lawyers. Therefore, lawyers are the hardest to hold accountable.

I can’t disagree with everything you say. I tell people my grandfather was so old that he was an honest lawyer. He was also old enough to see the Chicago Cubs win the World Series.

There is some accountability in the system. For people who reach the rank of judge or prosecutor, impeachment and removal from office is a pretty serious blow, as is disbarment, which would make them unable to earn a living at their chosen profession.

Would you really want judges to be sued because one of the litigants thinks he or she was wrong? Since almost every case has a loser, it would almost double the load on the court system.

 

[bobzills]

There’s a story in today’s NY Times about 13 & 14 yr-olds sentenced to life in prison w/o possibility of parole, which I hadn’t known was possible. There’s also a link to a report from an advocacy group, the Equal Justice Initiative [who invents these names?] about it.

I really don’t care about how US law compares to international law, which the story and the report both go into, but the basic question:
Don’t we have an obligation to try to salvage these kids, no matter how horrible their crimes, rather than just throwing them away?

I know “the age of reason” is reckoned to be seven or eight [forget which]. But we all know teens are busting with hormones, have poor to nil impulse control and science tells us their brains aren’t fully formed yet.
When some terrible crime is committed I often hear people say that the perp is a psychopath or “has no conscience” or even “has no soul”, which always bugs me – and I really hate the idea of making that judgment about kids too young to get a learner’s permit.

Society has a right to protect itself against killers. This is called the right to self defense.

 

[DaveBj]

I realize that my little pipe dream of holding people responsible when they turn criminals loose on society could never happen, not in our space-time continuum. That doesn’t keep me from wishing it could be so.

I would also like to see murderers immediately drop dead of a heart attack, rapists suddenly lose their never minds, liars suddenly lose the power of speech, speeders find their engines melting into slag, etc.

I have a rich fantasy life, don’t I?

 

[Al_Masetti]

Some people have absolutely no inhibitions … killing means nothing to them.

This is not about psycyhological profiling; it is about actual behavior. Some people like to kill and have no guilt or fear. It is about people who act out their sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies.

After they have used up all their second chances and all their “do-overs” and all the compassion that society can muster, then they have to be removed from society.

It’s their behavior that determines the outcome. If they look down on people who respect the law or who respect other people, then they have no right to demand to be treated as if they have authority to kill anyone they please.

I’ve heard folks deride normal people as “chumps”.

Normal people have to be protected from someone who has had the opportunity to be civil but who insists on killing innocent people.

So we have to put them away where they won’t kill anyone else.

 

[Trader]

Punishment for crime has more than one dimension.

1. Deterrence. People need a warning that certain choices have severe consequences.
2. Simple Justice. Bad acts demand that the damage caused be repaired and that punishment be imposed according to the severity of the crime.
3. Protection and Self Defense. This is the natural right of both individuals and society. Those with proven tendencies to harm others need to be restrained in a way that prevents them from repeating their crimes.

When it comes to a crime as horrible as murder, we have a big problem. Reparation is impossible. There is no punishment availble to us that can make things right.

Deterrence is doubtful. Most studies show that the severity of punishment does not deter serious crime, although the certainty of punishment is a better deterrent. A lot of criminals view the system as a kind of lottery, where a good lawyer can get you off.
Ask OJ about this.

The best we can do with murderers is to make sure that cannot repeat their crime. Modern societies can do this with imprisonment. The death penalty may be necessary in extreme circumstances. One I can think of is, what do we do if we capture Bin Laden alive? Would a living Bin Laden be a danger even in captivity? Would we see terrorist kidnappings world wide demanding his release as long as he lived?

As for the actual topic here, life sentences for young people, there is still the possibility of executive clemency for those who show some exceptional reason for relief during their lifetime. For almost all murderers, my opinion remains unchanged. They should be locked up for as long as the victim remains dead.