Tell me more about the Feast of the Dedication of the Lateran Basilica in Rome
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I will leave it to someone else to explain why ANY dedication is worthy of a place on a liturgical calendar…
What was explained to me was that for those of us in the Roman rite, the basilica is OUR basilica just like we have our own cathedral and our own parish church. The patron saint for our own parish is a local feast day. The patron saint of our diocese is a local feast day. At least here in the United States I don’t think it has really been the tradition to make a big deal about such local feasts. But in reality we OUGHT to be celebrating the dedications/patronal feast days as well.
I was also told that is legitimate to light the parish dedication candles on the feast of St. John Lateran and on the diocesan cathedral dedication day as well as on the parish dedication day.
What was explained to me was that for those of us in the Roman rite, the basilica is OUR basilica just like we have our own cathedral and our own parish church. The patron saint for our own parish is a local feast day. The patron saint of our diocese is a local feast day. At least here in the United States I don’t think it has really been the tradition to make a big deal about such local feasts. But in reality we OUGHT to be celebrating the dedications/patronal feast days as well.
I was also told that is legitimate to light the parish dedication candles on the feast of St. John Lateran and on the diocesan cathedral dedication day as well as on the parish dedication day.
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benedictgal
Guest
The date of the original dedication is November 9th. Furthermore, this is the dedication of the first church established under Constantine’s rule. This church was built on land given to the Holy Father. St. John Lateran is the mother of all of the churches of Rome and the world because it was the first one established. It is also where the Holy Father has his cathedra. This feast not only marks the dedication of the first church (Christians were still worshipping in catacombs and out-of-the-way places until Constatnine signed the decree legitimizing the Church), but, it also celebrates the universal communion that we have with Peter in the person of the Pope.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Just to expand on what’s already been said.
First, there was no St. John Lateran.
There was no such person. He never existed. Read on.
The word “Lateran” refers to the ancient roman family which owned the land on which the church was built. The family name was “Lateran” (I’m not going to bother with the latin grammar).
The official title of the building is the “Archbasilica of the Holy Savior” For some reason, the building was refered to as the church of St. John (Baptist? Evangelist? I don’t think anyone knows which) and the name just stuck.
Basilica has greek origins and means literally the kings place. The word was adopted by the Romans to refer to any significant public building, (we might say a courthouse or city hall). The Church adopted the word to refer to the significant church buildings in Rome.
The church of St. John (Lateran) is the cathedral church of the popes, and as others have said, because of the universal ministry of the pope, because he is literally the pastor of the entire Church, the basilica is likewise the “parish” church of everyone.
So the universal Church celebrates the anniversary of the dedication of that church just as we might celebrate the anniversary of our own local church building.
Just an aside: the Eastern Catholic Churches do not have this day in their calendar, lest someone jump on that point.
First, there was no St. John Lateran.
There was no such person. He never existed. Read on.
The word “Lateran” refers to the ancient roman family which owned the land on which the church was built. The family name was “Lateran” (I’m not going to bother with the latin grammar).
The official title of the building is the “Archbasilica of the Holy Savior” For some reason, the building was refered to as the church of St. John (Baptist? Evangelist? I don’t think anyone knows which) and the name just stuck.
Basilica has greek origins and means literally the kings place. The word was adopted by the Romans to refer to any significant public building, (we might say a courthouse or city hall). The Church adopted the word to refer to the significant church buildings in Rome.
The church of St. John (Lateran) is the cathedral church of the popes, and as others have said, because of the universal ministry of the pope, because he is literally the pastor of the entire Church, the basilica is likewise the “parish” church of everyone.
So the universal Church celebrates the anniversary of the dedication of that church just as we might celebrate the anniversary of our own local church building.
Just an aside: the Eastern Catholic Churches do not have this day in their calendar, lest someone jump on that point.
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jmcrae
Guest
Father P. was explaining to us yesterday that it was actually dedicated to both of them, and at one point was known as the Church of the Sts. John, in Lateran. (meaning both St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist) and then someone who didn’t know that “fixed” the grammar to make it say the Church of St. John Lateran, and the name just stuck, because that’s just how it goes sometimes.
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benedictgal
Guest
My parochial vicar told us a funny story. He said that when he was in the semianry, one of his classmates got up to do the evening prayer. He was a bit of know-it-all and at the conclusion of the prayer, he said, “Let us pray, that through the intercession of St. John Lateran…”Father P. was explaining to us yesterday that it was actually dedicated to both of them, and at one point was known as the Church of the Sts. John, in Lateran. (meaning both St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist) and then someone who didn’t know that “fixed” the grammar to make it say the Church of St. John Lateran, and the name just stuck, because that’s just how it goes sometimes.
The seminary rector told him that there was no such saint and the feast celebrated was not for a saint, but for the dedication of the basilica.
The celebrant at the New Cathedral Basilica of St. Louis also made sure to tell us that there is n’t a St. John Lateran. Incidentally, it was glorious to attend the Mass for that particular day in a basilica that looks like something that belongs in Rome.
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FrDavid96
Guest
At the early Mass on Sunday, I used EP3. When I came to the place to mention the saint of the day, I added “Saint John Lateran…I mean Saint John THE BAPTIST”My parochial vicar told us a funny story. He said that when he was in the semianry, one of his classmates got up to do the evening prayer. He was a bit of know-it-all and at the conclusion of the prayer, he said, “Let us pray, that through the intercession of St. John Lateran…”
The seminary rector told him that there was no such saint and the feast celebrated was not for a saint, but for the dedication of the basilica.
The celebrant at the New Cathedral Basilica of St. Louis also made sure to tell us that there is n’t a St. John Lateran. Incidentally, it was glorious to attend the Mass for that particular day in a basilica that looks like something that belongs in Rome.
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Cristiano
Guest
It is not St. John Lateran but St. John “in” Lateran or “Sanctissimi Salvatoris et Sancti Iohannes Baptista et Evangelista in Laterano”
"in" as in location “in Palazzo Laterano” "in the Lateran palace"
"in" as in location “in Palazzo Laterano” "in the Lateran palace"
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jmcrae
Guest
And, once again, we go back to the Latin, and there we have the real story. Too simple, eh?
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pnewton
Guest
Th Lateran (Lateri?) family donated the land for the Church that bears the name. We had a magnificent homily. The first time since I have been there (12 years) our priest had a screen set up and showed a five minute clip of the Church that he and others toured last month. The Church includes the Scala Sancta. These are stairs that St. Helen (Constantine’s mother) moved from the Pratorium in Jerusalem, where Jesus was held, scourged and bled, before Pilate, making it one of the few places that we know the blood of Jesus fell. It was a moving video. He then finished with a sermon exceprt from LOTH from the eighth century.
The feast is a commeration of our heritage and our ties to the Universal Church throughout history.
The feast is a commeration of our heritage and our ties to the Universal Church throughout history.
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Cristiano
Guest
I think that a lot of naming conventions for the churches in Rome have similar geographical origins. For example “Santa Maria sulla Minerva” is a church consecrated to the Blessed Mother and it was built on the temple dedicated to the goddess Minerva. Or the other “Basilica di San Paolo fuori le mura” That means St. Paul Basilica outside the city walls.And, once again, we go back to the Latin, and there we have the real story. Too simple, eh?
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Digitonomy
Guest
Thanks for all the useful info. I don’t think Americans are quite as obsessed with buildings as is the case in Europe… I’ve never heard of the anniversary of the dedication of a church, much less the cathedral (if it’s a different parish), being celebrated in any major way, unless it happens to be a convenient time for the parish picnic.
I’m still curious how old this feast is - e.g. do we have records indicating it was celebrated in France in the 13th century?
I’m still curious how old this feast is - e.g. do we have records indicating it was celebrated in France in the 13th century?
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benedictgal
Guest
It’s not that we are obsessed with celebraiting the dedication of a building. Remember that in the Old Testament, the dedication of the Temple was a huge celebration. What we are celebrating is the fact that this is the first Church freely established under Roman rule. It is also the seat of the Holy Father. The major dogmatic statements have been released when the Holy Father sits at his Cathedra (chair). That is where we get the word “cathedral” from because it is his church.
In a sense, St. John Laterna is our church, too, because that is where all of our churches have their root.
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pnewton
Guest
The sermon I mentioned above was from the eighth century on this feast day.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
I’m pretty sure it’s St. John the Baptist, as his tomb (?) is reportedly under the altar (or at least I thought so). Or was that just a statue? I was able to visit the basilica this summer…beautiful.
http://z.about.com/d/goitaly/1/0/t/6/-/-/basilica-st-john-lateran-4.jpg
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Cristiano
Guest
This is not just about a building but about Christianity becoming fully free and a state religion under Constantine.
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Digitonomy
Guest
Ah, that puts it in another light. Most of the previous posts had emphasized the idea that it was our parish in a sense, and symbolized our communion with the pope - in theory those points would also apply to our local parish and bishop/cathedral, yet you rarely see such celebrations in this country.
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Digitonomy
Guest
But was it celebrated outside of the basilica, or the Archdiocese of Rome?
Apparently it wasn’t one of the top 80 or so feasts of note in England in the 7th Century (see list at bottom of that page).
I did find that the dedication was celebrated in 1954 as a double of the second class, and in 1570 as a double, but I haven’t laid eyes on anything between the 7th and 16th Centuries.
Other possibly relevant links I found…
Domus Ecclesiae on the Title of Minor Basilica (1989)
General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar (1974)
From that last, I read
and from later queries,
and
I provided those lengthy cites because I’m a bit confused as to where this feast fits in the ranking. It sounds like its precedence may be of the 4th rank, that of a proper solemnity. Is the “dedication of a particular church” referring to dedication of my local church building or parish, or only such dedications celebrated universally in the Latin Church (if so what others are there?), or dedication of entire churches sui iuris?
Based on this page, it sounds like the first is true. But the author also suggests it is a feast rather than a solemnity. If so, wouldn’t it rank below that of the Ordinary Sunday?
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pnewton
Guest
The bottom line is every seven years when it lands on a Sunday it is celebrated as a feast day.
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LilyM
Guest
Well, most churches DO have special celebrations on the feast day of whichever saint they are named after for one.
But your statement doesn’t really hold true - the Pope, Vicar of Christ, doesn’t have HIS seat (the Chair of Peter, which has its own feast as well mind you, since it is the symbol of Papal authority as given by Our Lord to St Peter) in your local Church or your local Cathedral, now does he?
So there’s no direct link between your church building and my church building in the sense that there is between ALL church buildings in the world and St John Lateran, the mother church of Catholicism.
Nor does he even have it in St Peters basilica in Rome, nor any other church in Rome or in the world, which is why St Peter’s’ dedication isn’t a universal feast either, nor is the dedication of any other church building in the world.
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