Tell me what you think of this chapter in the Book of Mormon

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I have just finished reading the Book of Mormon through 2 Nephi. A lot of 2 Nephi quotes chapters from Isaiah. After quoting these chapters, Nephi begins to interpret them in 2 Nephi 25. I’d be curious to know how people feel about what they read in 2 Nephi 25:

scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/25

According to the Book of Mormon this chapter was written between 559 and 545 B.C.
 
BartBurk said:
I have just finished reading the Book of Mormon through 2 Nephi. A lot of 2 Nephi quotes chapters from Isaiah. After quoting these chapters, Nephi begins to interpret them in 2 Nephi 25. I’d be curious to know how people feel about what they read in 2 Nephi 25:

scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/25

According to the Book of Mormon this chapter was written between 559 and 545 B.C.
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What do you want to know about it? You need to be more specific with your question to get a meaningful reply.
 
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we akeep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the alaw given; wherefore the law hath become bdead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we atalk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we bprophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our cchildren may know to what source they may look for a dremission of their sins.
27 Wherefore, we speak concerning the law that our children may know the deadness of the law; and they, by knowing the deadness of the law, may look forward unto that life which is in Christ, and know for what end the law was given. And after the law is fulfilled in Christ, that they need not harden their hearts against him when the law ought to be done away.
28 And now behold, my people, ye are a astiffnecked people; wherefore, I have spoken plainly unto you, that ye cannot misunderstand. And the words which I have spoken shall stand as a btestimony against you; for they are sufficient to cteach any man the dright way; for the right way is to believe in Christ and deny him not; for by denying him ye also deny the prophets and the law.
29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and aworship him with all your bmight, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
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Random letters indicate footnotes. This is an excellent example of the peculiar pre-Christian Christianity of the BoM. If God had spoken to the Jews in this way before the time of Jesus, things might have turned out differently. Herod would have been successful in getting Him killed as an infant.

Straining at gnats and swallowing camels, anyone?
 
zerinus said:
What do you want to know about it? You need to be more specific with your question to get a meaningful reply.
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I want to get people’s reaction to the entire chapter. Does it sound “true.”
 
zerinus said:
It just does; in the same way that I read Matthew or John, and they sound true to me.
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I don’t know if you were raised Mormon or not. I look at it and the way that it talks about the Jews is interesting to me. The term Jew is hardly ever used in the Old Testament. I also find it striking that it is so specific about Christ:
But, behold, they shall have wars, and rumors of wars; and when the day cometh that the Only Begotten of the Father, yea, even the Father of heaven and of earth, shall manifest himself unto them in the flesh, behold, they will reject him, because of their iniquities, and the hardness of their hearts, and the stiffness of their necks.
13 Behold, they will crucify him; and after he is laid in a sepulchre for the space of three days he shall rise from the dead, with healing in his wings; and all those who shall believe on his name shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day, and my heart doth magnify his holy name.
14 And behold it shall come to pass that after the Messiah hath risen from the dead, and hath manifested himself unto his people, unto as many as will believe on his name, behold, Jerusalem shall be destroyed again; for wo unto them that fight against God and the people of his church.
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Of course there is nothing new in these verses. Every Christian would have been familiar with the life of Jesus at the time the Book of Mormon was published. And of course the part about “wars, and rumors of wars” is a direct quote from both Matthew 24:6 and Mark 13:7 so it is not surprising to me that you compared it to sounding true like the gospels do.
 
zerinus said:
It just does; in the same way that I read Matthew or John, and they sound true to me.
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That’s what struck me as I read it last night. It really was a wonderful testimony of Jesus Christ and his atonement and resurrection. The whole chapter seemed very Christ-centered and bolsters the Mormon claim that it is a second witness of Jesus. I was surprised how specific it was about the work Jesus did for us considering the time in which Nephi lived.
 
BartBurk said:
That’s what struck me as I read it last night. It really was a wonderful testimony of Jesus Christ and his atonement and resurrection. The whole chapter seemed very Christ-centered and bolsters the Mormon claim that it is a second witness of Jesus. I was surprised how specific it was about the work Jesus did for us considering the time in which Nephi lived.
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I agree, it does. To get a better picture you need to go back to Nephi’s great vision, starting with 1 Nephi 11, which vision he received in turn after inquiring of the Lord to know the meaning of his father Lehi’s dream.
 
Are you guys taking this book seriously? It just rips off the bible with a little fan fic thrown in.
 
SnakeMauler said:
Are you guys taking this book seriously? It just rips off the bible with a little fan fic thrown in.
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I certainly am thinking about that. Both the chapter I have suggested as well as the one Zerinius pointed to seem to be very specific. They also seem to sound a little too much like a rehash of the New Testament. I don’t know why God would be so specific with Nephi when he wasn’t this specific with other Old Testament prophets. Of course being specific would have been the only way that people in the Americas would have been ready for the coming of Christ to them after his resurrection since they didn’t experience his ministry in Israel.
 
SnakeMauler said:
Are you guys taking this book seriously? It just rips off the bible with a little fan fic thrown in.
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I should add that the only way we can seriously discuss Mormonism with Mormons is to take the Book of Mormon very seriously. If the Book of Mormon is true we have to take the claims of groups that use the Book of Mormon seriously. On the other hand the entire Mormon religion falls apart if the Book of Mormon isn’t what it claims to be. So maybe instead of looking at the doctrines of various Mormon groups we should concentrate on Book of Mormon issues specifically to have a serious discussion.
 
I personally take the Book of Mormon quite seriously. It is sacred scripture to millions of people. I do not believe the Book of Mormon is anything more than a 19th century religiouos text.

I do not believe it has ANY historical basis what so ever…but that doesn’t prevent me from seeing the beauty in it’s pages that it’s adherants see…and while those RLDS/LDS friends I am acquainted with see things quite differently than I concerning the Books origins…it does not prevent me from having a meaningful dialog with them concerning spiritual things.

It is MY belief in the Light Within that allows me to do so. God/Light/Spirit/Love uses what ever means to make Himself known to His children…a parent will still seek to convey their love and support over a faulty static ridden phone line to a child far away…even though their message is not clearly understood…but the “intent” of their love for that child is understood usually by the child trying to “hear” the far away parent.

God is first and foremost a Lover. God broached the vast gulf between us and Himself in His revelation of Himself through Jesus of Nazareth…if the Book of Momon assists in conveying that astounding Message of love and mercy…I find no fault in those who cling to the Books message of love.
 
Publisher said:
I do not believe it has ANY historical basis what so ever…but that doesn’t prevent me from seeing the beauty in it’s pages that it’s adherants see…and while those RLDS/LDS friends I am acquainted with see things quite differently than I concerning the Books origins…it does not prevent me from having a meaningful dialog with them concerning spiritual things.
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I don’t know, Publisher … if something that claims to be divine scripture is simply made up I call that a hoax. A particularly cruel and dangerous hoax, at that.
 
tomarin said:
I don’t know, Publisher … if something that claims to be divine scripture is simply made up I call that a hoax. A particularly cruel and dangerous hoax, at that.
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When I speak with believers in the BoM…I am speaking to them…not Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery or Martin Harris…IF THEY originated the “hoax”…that is on their heads…not those who believe in the story and words of the BoM…it may well be a “hoax” from the 19th century…but I’m not speaking and praying and laughing and discussing the deep things of the Spirit with a “hoax”…I am dealing with real live flesh and blood people who have had a profound religious experience with the Light Within/God/Christ/Holy Spirit through the ministry they have embraced in the BoM…that deep religious experience is not part of the “hoax”.

I don’t dismiss others religious experiences simply because I do not believe in their particular sared writing…I don’t dismiss Catholics who claim a deep spiritual experience with Mary…even though I do not believe the things written of her by Catholic authors has any basis in actual fact…but the religious experience some Catholics have that cause their hearts to be compassionate, merciful, kind and loving is real…I have also met believers in the BoM who have similar religous experiences which also strenghten their hearts and minds to be more like Jesus…the “myth” of the different religious traditions aren’t Truth…but are simply vehicles of Truth…Truth is lived and expressed by actions…not words…words alone fail us sometimes…but a gentle hand or a loving hug goes much further than words at times.
 
Publisher said:
When I speak with believers in the BoM…I am speaking to them…not Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery or Martin Harris…IF THEY originated the “hoax”…that is on their heads…not those who believe in the story and words of the BoM…it may well be a “hoax” from the 19th century…but I’m not speaking and praying and laughing and discussing the deep things of the Spirit with a “hoax”…I am dealing with real live flesh and blood people who have had a profound religious experience with the Light Within/God/Christ/Holy Spirit through the ministry they have embraced in the BoM…that deep religious experience is not part of the “hoax”.

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Hi,

very well said, my friend. 🙂

Although I never had a chance to talk to a RLDS/LDS Person about religion, I also value the BoM very high.
There are texts in it who are really just wonderful. How god interacts with the Nephites and Lamanites.
It IS a “Christian Book”. Nevertheless, it is a “hoax” of the 19th century, but this doesn’t destinguish the power of this book as a religous.

I’ll put it like this: The Qu’ran, the Bhagavad Gita and all other non Christian books (like Upanishades,Vedes, Gnostic “Bibles” etc), are also books of great value, although we also don’t believe in it. For me the BoM (and the D&C) are basically of the same value than all other sacred books.

In Christ,
Esdra
 
Publisher said:
When I speak with believers in the BoM…I am speaking to them…not Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery or Martin Harris…IF THEY originated the “hoax”…that is on their heads…not those who believe in the story and words of the BoM…it may well be a “hoax” from the 19th century…but I’m not speaking and praying and laughing and discussing the deep things of the Spirit with a “hoax”…I am dealing with real live flesh and blood people who have had a profound religious experience with the Light Within/God/Christ/Holy Spirit through the ministry they have embraced in the BoM…that deep religious experience is not part of the “hoax”.
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I agree it’s not their fault. But that doesn’t mean that they haven’t been led astray all the same.

I don’t have much experience with Mormons; I have more with Jehovahs Witnesses. But I think their situation is equivalent. They appear to be fine upstanding people to a point, but the fact of the matter is that the people behind the Watchtower Organization have led them astray from the truth. I feel a lot of compassion for them for that reason.

Saying that all religions are equally true is the same at bottom as claiming that they are all equally false. I don’t see how it’s different from agnosticism.
 
tomarin said:
I agree it’s not their fault. But that doesn’t mean that they haven’t been led astray all the same.

I don’t have much experience with Mormons; I have more with Jehovahs Witnesses. But I think their situation is equivalent. They appear to be fine upstanding people to a point, but the fact of the matter is that the people behind the Watchtower Organization have led them astray from the truth. I feel a lot of compassion for them for that reason.

Saying that all religions are equally true is the same at bottom as claiming that they are all equally false. I don’t see how it’s different from agnosticism.
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Let’s imagine you are one of the millions of lapsed Catholics who never go to church, but you were baptized as a baby. A Mormon missionary comes along and presents you with the Book of Mormon and it changes your life so that you follow Christ’s teachings, something you never did as a Catholic. This is the real life experience of many cradle Catholics. Are you better off in God’s eyes as a Mormon or as a lapsed Catholic who is living la vida loca? And is it possible your path through Mormonism might be more likely to lead you back to being a faithful Catholic?
 
There are some good points to the BoM. It must be taken seriously, both good and bad. I have trouble with Joseph-onlyites who condemn its entirety because they believe JS was the only author, and believe that the shockingly blasphemous later JS was just like the early JS.
 
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