Tell me what you think of this chapter in the Book of Mormon

[ParkerD]

This is the problem Parker, you think that you and your church has the added benefit of the Holy Ghost. That is not true. All born again believers in Christ receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who illuminates the Scriptures for us and confirms Heavenly Father’s will. The Holy Spirit also convicts us when we sin. In order to have this indwelling, one must be born again. “The lds church does not teach that.” They are still working towards salvation through obedience of the laws and ordinances of your church. This is the pride of superiority which the lds falsely believes he has. You do not have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit nor do you have the indwelling because you are not part of the royal priesthood which Peter talks about. If you had this indwelling, you would be able to understand and rightly divide the Word of God without constantly depending on you leaders for interpretation.

Yankee Drifter,

I never have said, nor do I believe for a minute that the LDS “have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.”

I certainly understand that the Protestant perspective on the words “born again” are different than the LDS perspective, since the LDS do indeed believe that after a person is “born again”–“born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters” (Mosiah 27:25) then they will still need to repent some more, do good things with their life, endure in faith to the end including when “sore trials come upon them”, and live their lives with gospel ordinances and covenants as an ongoing part of their life.

I assure you that LDS don’t “constantly depend on their leaders for interpretation” and that the Bible is a sure and consistent standard for their beliefs, yet there is a breadth of belief in terms of getting the specific meaning from every verse of scripture in exactly the same way. But the LDS do have faith-filled leaders who teach the doctrines of the gospel of salvation well, and encourage the LDS members to follow the living Christ in all that they do individually and collectively.

That is a continuous blessing in my life and the lives of my children–who listen attentively to the prophet and apostles and are very grateful for their words of counsel and encouragement. They are ages 13-26, and they love listening to the prophet and apostles, the seventy and the women leaders in the church. They especially love the personal experiences that bring home the messages and make them memorable for a long time.

 

[The_One_Trinity]

Yankee, dont try and argue with the mormons. You will be wasting your time. They are right and the whole world is wrong. Dont reply to their remarks, thats how they try and sucker you in.

 

[KathleenGee]

I was speaking to our RCIA head who prepares people for initiation into the Catholic Church. She pretty much touched on all the issues that have been brought up…

One Holy Trinity, yes, the Mormons think one way, and we another. I believe that what God reveals is the truth, and what follows up to contradict is counterfeit. Yet there are common lines within Mormonism and Catholicism that are the same, and I have been reading some points and appears it is a matter of rephrasing, Mormon style, what Christians believe all over the world.

Americans are known to be independent individualists and Mormons reflect this to some point; but we know that diocese to diocese, parish to parish, each have their own charism.

You are right that there will never be agreement. It is a matter of how much time you want to spend arguing.

 

[yankee_drifter]

Yankee Drifter,

I never have said, nor do I believe for a minute that the LDS “have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.”

I certainly understand that the Protestant perspective on the words “born again” are different than the LDS perspective, since the LDS do indeed believe that after a person is “born again”–“born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters” (Mosiah 27:25) then they will still need to repent some more, do good things with their life, endure in faith to the end including when “sore trials come upon them”, and live their lives with gospel ordinances and covenants as an ongoing part of their life.

I assure you that LDS don’t “constantly depend on their leaders for interpretation” and that the Bible is a sure and consistent standard for their beliefs, yet there is a breadth of belief in terms of getting the specific meaning from every verse of scripture in exactly the same way. But the LDS do have faith-filled leaders who teach the doctrines of the gospel of salvation well, and encourage the LDS members to follow the living Christ in all that they do individually and collectively.

That is a continuous blessing in my life and the lives of my children–who listen attentively to the prophet and apostles and are very grateful for their words of counsel and encouragement. They are ages 13-26, and they love listening to the prophet and apostles, the seventy and the women leaders in the church. They especially love the personal experiences that bring home the messages and make them memorable for a long time.

You wrote that the lds has the added benefit of the witness of the Holy Ghost, Thus by your own admission you are claiming that you have something the rest of us do not. Do you believe that when your leader speaks the thinking been done? Do you believe that only your leaders can translate the Bible correctly. Do you believe that the lds are the chosen and the rest of us are Gentiles? Do you believe that the New Jerusalem will be in America? These are the teachings of your church.

 

[ParkerD]

(1) You wrote that the LDS have the added benefit of the witness of the Holy Ghost, Thus by your own admission you are claiming that you have something the rest of us do not.
(2) Do you believe that when your leader speaks the thinking been done?
(3) Do you believe that only your leaders can translate the Bible correctly.
(4) Do you believe that the LDS are the chosen and the rest of us are Gentiles?
(5) Do you believe that the New Jerusalem will be in America? These are the teachings of your church.

Yankee Drifter,
These are good questions–thanks.

1. The witness of the Holy Ghost comes if someone prays sincerely, asking a specific question about specific truth, and if they are patient and have “done their homework” rather than thinking that God will do their thinking for them. People can have the influence of the Holy Ghost concerning many truths of the gospel and truths about relationships in their life, such as being loving and forgiving toward others. They do that by having a questioning heart about specific concerns, and by getting answers from God about those specific concerns–and being sincere about their questions and what they plan to do when they receive guidance from God through the influence of the Holy Ghost. But if no sincere question is asked about a specific subject, no answer will be given about that subject.
2. Definitely not.
3. Definitely not. William Tyndale did an exceptional and remarkable work in translating the Bible into English, and was guided by the Holy Ghost in doing so.
4. Definitely not. The word “Gentiles” has different connotations within different contexts, but there is no question that the descendants of Abraham and of Israel are scattered throughout the earth, and are among the Gentiles and no one will know who is of “Abrahamic descent” and who is of “Gentile descent”, because our pedigrees of course don’t go back that far. The LDS don’t believe only the LDS are of the house of Israel–of course they don’t.
5. Yes, and it will eventually be across the entire two continents of the Americas–during the Millenium. There will also be the Old Jerusalem restored to being a place of peace and full gospel blessings, including for the Jews at that time when they receive their King and their Messiah whom they will finally come to recognize.

 

[The_One_Trinity]

“4) Definitely not. The word “Gentiles” has different connotations within different contexts, but there is no question that the descendants of Abraham and of Israel are scattered throughout the earth, and are among the Gentiles and no one will know who is of “Abrahamic descent” and who is of “Gentile descent”, because our pedigrees of course don’t go back that far. The LDS don’t believe only the LDS are of the house of Israel–of course they don’t.”

You guys do believe your the chosen people. You say you are a lost tribe of Israel. You also think you will be celestial gods and have wives and bear children in Heaven. And all dark skinned people are damned. You also believe that the Angel Moroni was a Native American whos skin color was fair and all other Native Americans were given dark skinned because they are unworthy or something weird. This is whats still taught today. How do I know? I ask alot of questions and read. Mormons are the ones telling me what it is they believe. So how do you have a different view on this? Just curious.

 

[yankee_drifter]

Yankee Drifter,
These are good questions–thanks.

1. The witness of the Holy Ghost comes if someone prays sincerely, asking a specific question about specific truth, and if they are patient and have “done their homework” rather than thinking that God will do their thinking for them. People can have the influence of the Holy Ghost concerning many truths of the gospel and truths about relationships in their life, such as being loving and forgiving toward others. They do that by having a questioning heart about specific concerns, and by getting answers from God about those specific concerns–and being sincere about their questions and what they plan to do when they receive guidance from God through the influence of the Holy Ghost. But if no sincere question is asked about a specific subject, no answer will be given about that subject.
2. Definitely not.
3. Definitely not. William Tyndale did an exceptional and remarkable work in translating the Bible into English, and was guided by the Holy Ghost in doing so.
4. Definitely not. The word “Gentiles” has different connotations within different contexts, but there is no question that the descendants of Abraham and of Israel are scattered throughout the earth, and are among the Gentiles and no one will know who is of “Abrahamic descent” and who is of “Gentile descent”, because our pedigrees of course don’t go back that far. The LDS don’t believe only the LDS are of the house of Israel–of course they don’t.
5. Yes, and it will eventually be across the entire two continents of the Americas–during the Millenium. There will also be the Old Jerusalem restored to being a place of peace and full gospel blessings, including for the Jews at that time when they receive their King and their Messiah whom they will finally come to recognize.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit takes place the moment one experiences the spiritual rebirth. Once one accepts Christ as Lord and Savior though repentance and confession of sins, and acknowledges that he is a lost sinner who can do nothing to save himself and is totally trusting in Christ alone for his eternal salavtion, that person then become regenerate, spiritually born again which Christ commanded. Then the person receives the Holy Spirit. It is a spontaneous indwelling. One does not pray specific, long prayers or strive for it. Nowhere does the Scriptures say we must ask specific questions and do our “homework”. That’s a work based theology and its what mormonism teaches. Not the Word of God.

If you believe Tyndale did an excellent job in translating the Scriptures, then you are in a minority among your fellow lds. Joseph Smith made many revisions and said he was commanded by God to do so. I think it speaks volumes when the lds does not use the JST exclusively or even in church. Isn’t this disrespecting your Prophet and founder?

Nowhere does the Bible teach that the New Jerusalem will be in America. Again this is the teaching of your founder which finds no support in God’s Word.

The lds has always referred to non lds as Gentiles. This is an incorrect usage of the word. It has always referred to non Israelite. If you look up the definition you will sometimes see that it will include the lds definition which is in sharp contrast.

Sorry Parker, but the lds are not the regathered Israelites. God chosen people has always been and still is the Jews. When Jesus Christ returns, He will regather the remnant of Israel, dissolve the state of Palestine and establish Zion as the headquarters of the Millennial Kingdom. America will be out of the picture.

 

[yankee_drifter]

“4) Definitely not. The word “Gentiles” has different connotations within different contexts, but there is no question that the descendants of Abraham and of Israel are scattered throughout the earth, and are among the Gentiles and no one will know who is of “Abrahamic descent” and who is of “Gentile descent”, because our pedigrees of course don’t go back that far. The LDS don’t believe only the LDS are of the house of Israel–of course they don’t.”

You guys do believe your the chosen people. You say you are a lost tribe of Israel. You also think you will be celestial gods and have wives and bear children in Heaven. And all dark skinned people are damned. You also believe that the Angel Moroni was a Native American whos skin color was fair and all other Native Americans were given dark skinned because they are unworthy or something weird. This is whats still taught today. How do I know? I ask alot of questions and read. Mormons are the ones telling me what it is they believe. So how do you have a different view on this? Just curious.

I sometimes wonder if the majority of the lds really know what their church teaches. So many of the teachings of past leaders have been tossed out. Their doctrines are ever changing. Mormonism disagrees with the BoM many times. I also think that many of the lds are still in the milk stage. Maybe Parker is just giving us the milk instead of the meat like the missionaries do.

 

[ParkerD]

T.O.T.,
I had commented–

“4) Definitely not. The word “Gentiles” has different connotations within different contexts, but there is no question that the descendants of Abraham and of Israel are scattered throughout the earth, and are among the Gentiles and no one will know who is of “Abrahamic descent” and who is of “Gentile descent”, because our pedigrees of course don’t go back that far. The LDS don’t believe only the LDS are of the house of Israel–of course they don’t.”

It’s true that we believe that Abraham received a promise that his descendants would bless the whole world with the blessings of the gospel. But that shouldn’t be taken to mean that the LDS think they are exclusive descendants of Abraham–we certainly don’t. The Old Testament and New Testament talk about the Gentiles being brought in to the gospel covenant, and thus being part of the covenant people.

LDS do receive a “lineage blessing” where they are told which tribe of Israel they are part of, but that can mean they are “adopted in” or a “literal descendant” and it doesn’t differentiate.

The idea of “bearing children in heaven” has to do with bringing a spirit child into a spirit family situation where they are nurtured and prepared to go to a world where they will gain a body to grow through the experiences of a mortal world. That doesn’t mean a resurrected woman will physically “conceive” a spirit child and “bear” a spirit child. It means that she can have the privilege of nurturing a spirit child in a motherly way, with motherly joy in the process of helping that spirit child grow and progress.

“And all dark skinned people are damned.” You also believe that the Angel Moroni was a Native American whos skin color was fair and all other Native Americans were given dark skinned because they are unworthy or something weird. This is whats still taught today. How do I know? I ask alot of questions and read. Mormons are the ones telling me what it is they believe. So how do you have a different view on this? Just curious.

The LDS believe “all are alike unto God” as taught in the Book of Mormon, regardless of ethnicity at all. It’s true that the Book of Mormon describes a group of “white-skinned” people who eventually became unrighteous (except for Moroni and his father, Mormon) and
were destroyed through the intra-fighting among them and between them and another group who were called “Lamanites”, and that some “Lamanite” descendants were not destroyed through that intra-fighting so there are some Lamanite descendants today among the Native American populations. But among that group, the Lamanite descendants (whose skin color may or may not be “dark”) are part of the “house of Israel” and their skin color has only to do with their gene pool. Skin color has nothing to do with being a “covenant person” or collectively a “covenant people”, or being “worthy”.

 

[yankee_drifter]

It’s true that we believe that Abraham received a promise that his descendants would bless the whole world with the blessings of the gospel. But that shouldn’t be taken to mean that the LDS think they are exclusive descendants of Abraham–we certainly don’t. The Old Testament and New Testament talk about the Gentiles being brought in to the gospel covenant, and thus being part of the covenant people.

LDS do receive a “lineage blessing” where they are told which tribe of Israel they are part of, but that can mean they are “adopted in” or a “literal descendant” and it doesn’t differentiate.

The idea of “bearing children in heaven” has to do with bringing a spirit child into a spirit family situation where they are nurtured and prepared to go to a world where they will gain a body to grow through the experiences of a mortal world. That doesn’t mean a resurrected woman will physically “conceive” a spirit child and “bear” a spirit child. It means that she can have the privilege of nurturing a spirit child in a motherly way, with motherly joy in the process of helping that spirit child grow and progress.

The LDS believe “all are alike unto God” as taught in the Book of Mormon, regardless of ethnicity at all. It’s true that the Book of Mormon describes a group of “white-skinned” people who eventually became unrighteous (except for Moroni and his father, Mormon) and
were destroyed through the intra-fighting among them and between them and another group who were called “Lamanites”, and that some “Lamanite” descendants were not destroyed through that intra-fighting so there are some Lamanite descendants today among the Native American populations. But among that group, the Lamanite descendants (whose skin color may or may not be “dark”) are part of the “house of Israel” and their skin color has only to do with their gene pool. Skin color has nothing to do with being a “covenant person” or collectively a “covenant people”, or being “worthy”.

Parker, what I see here is your white washing of lds history. Your leaders believed and taught that blacks are from the curse of Cain. It took until the 1970’s before your church admitted this was wrong and allowed blacks to hold the “priesthood.”

The Holy Bible nowhere supports preexistence nor spirit babies being procreated by God and a fictitious mother goddess. Nor does it support eternal marriage. These teachings are false.

 

[ParkerD]

Parker, what I see here is your white washing of lds history. Your leaders believed and taught that blacks are from the curse of Cain. It took until the 1970’s before your church admitted this was wrong and allowed blacks to hold the “priesthood.”

The Holy Bible nowhere supports preexistence nor spirit babies being procreated by God and a fictitious mother goddess. Nor does it support eternal marriage. These teachings are false.

Y.D.,
T.O.T. didn’t ask about LDS history, nor about blacks and the priesthood, nor about the beliefs of Joseph Fielding Smith that some members agreed with. I have never agreed with his beliefs on that subject.

I gave a talk in 1975 where I said I was going to be glad when the blacks would have missionary work among them and have the full gospel blessings (I had loved being among some very wonderful people in Los Angeles whom I was grateful to associate with)–that day of rejoicing came in 1978–over 32 years ago. Here we are, today, in a different world than the world of 1978–but some people like to live in the past. I don’t.

'Does too “support pre-existence” and “eternal marriage”.

I didn’t write what you wrote, so I agree with the other parts of your third to last sentence.

 

[yankee_drifter]

Y.D.,

'Does too “support pre-existence” and “eternal marriage”.

Give me the scriptural evidence. Holy Bible only.

If you don’t believe much of what your leaders taught then why are you mormon?

 

[ParkerD]

Give me the scriptural evidence. Holy Bible only.

If you don’t believe much of what your leaders taught then why are you mormon?

Yankee Drifter,

I wrote that I didn’t believe what Joseph Fielding Smith taught on that subject–that is one issue, not “much”.

Pre-mortal life is supported by Jude 6, Revelation 12:7-8, and Job 38:7.

Eternal marriage is supported by Genesis 2:24 and by Matthew 19:4-6 and by the promise to Abraham about his seed, which extends to his seed also receiving those same promises if they are faithful as he was.

 

[yankee_drifter]

Yankee Drifter,

I wrote that I didn’t believe what Joseph Fielding Smith taught on that subject–that is one issue, not “much”.

Pre-mortal life is supported by Jude 6, Revelation 12:7-8, and Job 38:7.

Eternal marriage is supported by Genesis 2:24 and by Matthew 19:4-6 and by the promise to Abraham about his seed, which extends to his seed also receiving those same promises if they are faithful as he was.

Please try again. The scriptures you quoted do not support the lds teachings. For 2,000 years biblical Christianity has understood the meaning of these passages and have the support of the early church fathers as well. These fathers never wrote anything about mormon doctrines such as these. You claim to be a restoration of original Christianity but what you have actually done is added and substituted.

Read Genesis again. It says: In the beginning. You can’t go further back than that. if you want to try, then please explain to me how the first man got here and how he got his body.

 

[ParkerD]

Please try again. The scriptures you quoted do not support the lds teachings. For 2,000 years biblical Christianity has understood the meaning of these passages and have the support of the early church fathers as well. These fathers never wrote anything about mormon doctrines such as these. You claim to be a restoration of original Christianity but what you have actually done is added and substituted.

Read Genesis again. It says: In the beginning. You can’t go further back than that. if you want to try, then please explain to me how the first man got here and how he got his body.

Yankee Drifter,

According to one recent post by a Catholic, Justin the Martyr wrote (as translated):

“Sunday is when we hold our assembly because it is the first day, on which God brought forth the world from darkness and matter.”

So there has been a departure from what Justin the Martyr believed and wrote, since that statement says “matter” existed and the world was brought forth from “matter.”

A teacher can say, “Students, in the beginning we are going to talk about elemental subjects. We are going to lay a foundation for our studies.” That does not mean that the students and the teacher didn’t already exist before they arrived at the class. It means the teacher wants them to focus on what they are about to learn and begin to understand as the foundation for further study.

 

[yankee_drifter]

Yankee Drifter,

According to one recent post by a Catholic, Justin the Martyr wrote (as translated):

“Sunday is when we hold our assembly because it is the first day, on which God brought forth the world from darkness and matter.”

So there has been a departure from what Justin the Martyr believed and wrote, since that statement says “matter” existed and the world was brought forth from “matter.”

A teacher can say, “Students, in the beginning we are going to talk about elemental subjects. We are going to lay a foundation for our studies.” That does not mean that the students and the teacher didn’t already exist before they arrived at the class. It means the teacher wants them to focus on what they are about to learn and begin to understand as the foundation for further study.

Although its true we cannot have total agreement with the early church writers, the point is we have much support from them, whereas the lds does not.

Anyway, nice deflection, but we are talking about Mormonism. Instead of looking at the errors of others, please address those of the lds church.

 

[The_One_Trinity]

Although its true we cannot have total agreement with the early church writers, the point is we have much support from them, whereas the lds does not.

Anyway, nice deflection, but we are talking about Mormonism. Instead of looking at the errors of others, please address those of the lds church.

They cant Yankee. This is what they do.

 

[InfiniteLove]

After reading all these posts. Its clear that the LDS members have been led down a road of deciet. They cannot backup their claims and seem to try and flip everything around when they are confronted with truth. May God bless them and guide them.

 

[ParkerD]

(1) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit takes place the moment one experiences the spiritual rebirth. Once one accepts Christ as Lord and Savior though repentance and confession of sins, and acknowledges that he is a lost sinner who can do nothing to save himself and is totally trusting in Christ alone for his eternal salavtion, that person then become regenerate, spiritually born again which Christ commanded. Then the person receives the Holy Spirit. It is a spontaneous indwelling. One does not pray specific, long prayers or strive for it. Nowhere does the Scriptures say we must ask specific questions and do our “homework”. That’s a work based theology and its what mormonism teaches. Not the Word of God.

(2) If you believe Tyndale did an excellent job in translating the Scriptures, then you are in a minority among your fellow lds. Joseph Smith made many revisions and said he was commanded by God to do so. I think it speaks volumes when the lds does not use the JST exclusively or even in church. Isn’t this disrespecting your Prophet and founder?

(3) Nowhere does the Bible teach that the New Jerusalem will be in America. Again this is the teaching of your founder which finds no support in God’s Word.

(4) The lds has always referred to non lds as Gentiles. This is an incorrect usage of the word. It has always referred to non Israelite. If you look up the definition you will sometimes see that it will include the lds definition which is in sharp contrast.

(5) Sorry Parker, but the lds are not the regathered Israelites. God chosen people has always been and still is the Jews. When Jesus Christ returns, He will regather the remnant of Israel, dissolve the state of Palestine and establish Zion as the headquarters of the Millennial Kingdom. America will be out of the picture.

Yankee Drifter,

I suppose that I might as well finish out this thread by answering these assertions, which I had left unanswered because it seemed we were going in circles but I’ve realized you probably really have these impressions in your mind, so I might as well attempt to help change the impression you have had.

1. I would cite the example of the night before the Savior chose His apostles. He lived what He taught–He asked in prayer (all night) about the decisions He was going to make the next day. (See Luke 6:12) He lived by the principle, “ask and it shall be given; seek and ye shall find” which He taught so many times during His ministry. When James taught to “ask in faith, nothing wavering” to gain wisdom from God, he certainly wasn’t teaching what you have written about the Holy Spirit making some blanket coverage for every act of the person after they have been “spiritually born again.” One asks for wisdom–they don’t wait around assuming it is a guarantee in their life.
2. No–several LDS apostles have in recent years cited the case of William Tyndale and his translation, and noted it was an inspired process. Here is an example:

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=b1ab6169b62fe010VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=f318118dd536c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

The Joseph Smith Translation provided some additional insights, and those insights are helpful but not “mandatory” to study–however, many of them are referenced in the LDS published King James Bible, so when the LDS members are reading and studying the Bible they certainly can look at those additional insights.

1. The only places the words “new Jerusalem” are used in the King James Bible are the following two verses:

Rev. 3: 12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev. 21: 2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Those verses are a different use of the term than an existing city or place on earth. I look at those verses and think to myself that of course “the city of my God” will be called “new Jerusalem” or “holy city.”

But the Bible does teach that there will be righteousness all over the world during the Millenium, so I think it is not a wrong expectation that there would be places described as a “new Jerusalem” for the people who live there.

1. Historically, the early LDS identified themselves with being descendants of Abraham and of Israel, and I agree that they may have used terminology that sounded like “everyone else” was a “Gentile”. But that was wrong terminology if it was used, and you will not find that kind of expression in the LDS terminology used today.
2. What you have written about the “Jews” shows that you may be unfamiliar with the words of Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Hosea who wrote about the scattering and gathering of Israel and wrote about other tribes than the tribe of Judah being a part of that scattering and gathering. It’s OK–a common misunderstanding.

Peace to all readers.

 

[yankee_drifter]

Yankee Drifter,

1. No–several LDS apostles have in recent years cited the case of William Tyndale and his translation, and noted it was an inspired process. Here is an example:

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=b1ab6169b62fe010VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=f318118dd536c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

The Joseph Smith Translation provided some additional insights, and those insights are helpful but not “mandatory” to study–however, many of them are referenced in the LDS published King James Bible, so when the LDS members are reading and studying the Bible they certainly can look at those additional insights.

1. Historically, the early LDS identified themselves with being descendants of Abraham and of Israel, and I agree that they may have used terminology that sounded like “everyone else” was a “Gentile”. But that was wrong terminology if it was used, and you will not find that kind of expression in the LDS terminology used today.

Peace to all readers.

Oh I agree that Tyndale did a remarkable job translating into English and yes he was inspired to do it. It was faithful to the manuscripts. But the JST is not inspired and full of “revisions”. Smith changed John 1 which affects the true Doctrine of Jesus Christ.This is why you don’t use it exclusively or even on Sundays. Here’s the dilemma. The lds church teach that only an inspired translation of the bible can be considered absolutely reliable. Smith claimed he produced such a translation. Yet the lds cannot officially accept the JST because it denies some of the doctrines of mormonism. This is the quandary: You can’t totally accept the JST because it contradicts some doctrines taught today. Yet you can’t totally reject the JST because to do so would be to admit Smith was not a true prophet. You claim Smith was inspired to translate, then you turn around and use the KJV. The fact is no Christian group can deny the power of the Holy Bible. There is power in the Word. The Holy Bible stands alone and needs no revisions. This is why the JST can never measure up.

Many lds have told me that Smith never completed the JST. This is untrue. Smith himself said he finished it and that God commanded him to. He also said God commanded him to print it, which didn’t happen.

Why do you print the KJV and only use the JST in the footnotes? Why not print the JST and only use the KJV in the footnotes?

No, Parker, Mormonism is a false religion. Its teaches another Jesus and another gospel. Your standard works are not inspired. You white wash mormonism. This is what the missionaries are trained to do. Give only the sweet milk and sound “christian.” But the moment you get the investigator converted and baptized, its too late. He learns the meat gradually and sees the deviations from Holy Scriptures. He learns of a different god who was once a man from Kolob, a mother god, exaltation to godhood, polygamy, polytheism and all these false teachings. The new convert has to fight and claw to get his name removed. Then he faces ostracism. He is called an apostate who’s destiny is hell. Many ex mormons saw the Truth when they began reading the Bible for themselves. The Truth really does set us free.

Parker, Christianity never disappeared. The church never left the earth. The Bible clearly teaches that its impossible.

We are all children of Abraham and we are all Gentiles, if we are not Israelite. You have totally misunderstood. This is why you believe you have the right to the Aaronic priesthood. In fact, what you have done is violate God’s decree. This priesthood was a hereditary priesthood for Aaron’s descendants ONLY. This priesthood was shown to be inadequate and inferior to bring salvation to men and was replaced. You have resurrected an obsolete office. The Melchizedek priesthood belongs to Christ alone forever. It was never passed on. Men cannot qualify for this priesthood. Read the qualifications in Hebrews: Without father nor mother, without beginning or end.

You have not restored Christianity. What you have done is substituted and added on teachings that are unscriptual.

You are right. This is just going in circles and I really can’t see the use of continuing this.