Telling kids the Church allows divorce?

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This is what I find truly baffling and frustrating.

The Church has developed, through the centuries with the best theological minds, an interlocking theology where everything fits together and makes sense. Its all complicated but well thought out.

Then, at the point of sale, if you will, they let any parent who wants to, any DRE with an opinion, teach little children anything they want.

:confused:It makes no sense.
You got that right.
To everyone else,
It’s even baffling for people like me who take their DRE positions very seriously, and strive to offer the best teachers, and support the teachers.
If your parish has great RE, thank someone, and tell the priest, so that it remains on point.
Pray for those who educate your children.

And if it doesn’t? Ask why. They’re your kids people…require excellence.
 
The church does allow divorce and separation.

The church does accept “a second marriage” if proper procedure is followed (annulment)

None of these things are remotely appropriate to discuss with first graders though.
I agree with this. However, if I was teaching the older kids, I would tell them that I cannot teach a falsehood no matter who complains about it and resign from the position if I needed to.
 
It troubles me that those teaching the faith would even say that the Church approves of second marriages…… A decree of Nullity finds that there was** NO FIRST MARRIAGE…**. This means that the so called second marriage the Church approves is the FIRST Marriage. A Catholic can only be married one time.

I would stick with what God says when teaching on Divorce. To do otherwise it to appoint oneself as the interpreter of God’s true meaning of Scripture…
Malachi 2:16 For I hate divorce, says the LORD, the God of Israel,
and what says Jesus:
Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matt. 19:3–8; cf. Mark 10:2–9; Luke 16:18)
Some wish to change Catholic teaching on Divorce. The Church is very clear and to the point on divorce.
Article 6 THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT, IV. Offenses Against the Dignity of Marriage
2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.173 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law. 174 Between the baptized, “a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death.” 175
2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in **certain cases provided for by canon law. 176 **If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.
(CANON LAW IS Specific…)
Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too difficult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.
§2. In all cases, when the cause for the separation ceases, conjugal living must be restored unless ecclesiastical authority has established otherwise.

The Catechism also calls the non-filing spouse “innocent of a moral offense” This implies the other, if not meeting the conditions spelled out by the Church, may be guilty of a grave moral offense.
We hear Priests say that those who are divorced may receive the Eucharist if they are otherwise in the proper disposition… and forget that filing for divorce is very likely Mortal Sin… they are not in the proper disposition.
(source = ewtn.com/expert/answers/communion_of_divorced_and_remarr.htm)
2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law.
There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.178
FULL KNOWLEDGE is often misunderstood as an excuse of sinful actions. # 1859 of the Catechism clarifies “ignorance” stating that “feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of sin.” And #1860 clarifies “ignorance” even further: “But no one is deemed ignorant of the moral law, which is written in the conscience of every man.”
Research shows that those who stayed and worked through their marriage issues reported they were in a happy marriage 5 years later. For those who divorced? They were less happy than those that stuck it out.
Why is it that we can’t understand this simple teaching? The Apostles heard Jesus and their reaction was “It would have been better if we never married”. It was that harsh. Jesus never said Hey Guys, what I really meant was try and stay married but I am God so I know what you will face in real life, so if 1. You are not happy, 2. He/she gains weight, 3. you find someone better, or 4 you no longer want to keep up your end of the marriage bargain, go ahead and dump your spouse… I, God, understand. He is all knowing… He knew the struggles that married couples would go through … He understood perfectly what He was saying…… tough teaching… I wonder how many marriages could have been saved if we spoke the truth in love instead of being what we call ‘pastoral” ( a joke because is it love to misinform someone of the consequences of their actions to save their feelings???)
Here is an excellent article by an expert in these subjects:
catholic.com/magazine/articles/did-jesus-allow-divorce
 
The church does allow divorce and separation.

The church does accept “a second marriage” if proper procedure is followed (annulment)

None of these things are remotely appropriate to discuss with first graders though.
Church does allow divorce:
Does it mean if the Church allows divorce then the divorce in and of itself is not sinful so long there is no remarriage?

As long as one doesn’t remarry, is it sinful to get a divorce because of irreconcilable difference? Can the divorcée/divorcé immediately receive communion in the mass right after his/her divorce without going to confession?
 
Careful here… the only time the Church accepts a second marriage is if the spouse dies. If you are granted a decree of nullity you were never married in the eyes of the Church so it is your first marriage…

Divorce is a grave matter according to the Catechism so I wouldn’t say the Church approves it (grave matter = mortal sin). There are situations that, with Clergy approval separation can be long term but goal is always to reconcile. Most priests talking on the subject will be pastoral ( Catholic for Politically correct) and add the line "if they are in proper condition to receive otherwise or something similar… which begs the question completely. Hard part come with reconciliation. I have been trying to get a straight answer for two years on this from the priest on this site and never get answers. If you steal a million dollars you can receive forgiveness but you must give the money back in someway… you can’t keep it and spend it knowing your actions was a sin and be forgiven… With divorce, if it is a grave matter, if one is happy they divorced and refuse to reconcile as required by Canon Law, are they forgiven and in proper condition to receive? Hmm

I wonder how many marriages we could save if we spoke the truth of our faith in love and enforced Canon Law. If one is Catholic and truly believes marriage is a sacrament how can you be in proper standing when the person filing for civil divorce is saying they know better than God… and do not believe He can save their marriage? If you treat other sins in the same way, say adultery, which is used all the time by priests as an example of not being forgiven… usually is it is something like If you ask for forgiveness for adultery but the lady you are cheating with is waiting for you in the car you are not making a proper confession and are not absolved. So if you go against Church teaching and file for divorce, get it granted and separate without the approval required by canon law… and are happy you are no longer married… are you really forgiven? If you are then Canon Law is a waste of words and the catechism is in error calling divorce grave matter. It should say remarriage after divorce is grave matter. Currently it does not say that even though most on this site will act as if it does. Basically they take the stand that even if you divorce you are still married… so no sin. Problem with that is the catechism outlines requirements on the spouses which divorce destroys.the marriage embrace for example…

You can have sex with your ex-wife when remarried outside the church and not be sinful… if you have sex with your second wife it is a sin since you are still married to your ex-wife in the church’s eyes.

We have divorce support groups in parishes where those who filed meet and console each other. the topic tends to be God understands… Of course we have no group that will interject themselves to try and save a couple’s marriage and encourage them to work things out. Even Retrovive (I know I misspelled) refuses to contact a spouse when requested by the other spouse… both have to go to them. Of course Jesus never worked that way when He was teaching us how to instruct with love the teachings of His Church… He got involved and always ended with a command to sin no more… He was understanding and honest about what was unacceptable behavior. He judged sin often and spoke up hoping to guide the people to Heaven. Catholic’s tend to pray and be understanding when tough situations come up. Tell first graders it is a sin to remarry. It is the truth. Given their parents actions what is to say they won’t get their first communion then never return. It is a tough teaching… many leave due to it. I tend to believe God when he says he hates divorce. Jesus never said, marriage is forever, but I understand if you are not happy you may want out so you decide when there is no hope … don’t rely on me…

funny thing is if you sign a prenup. you are not allowed to marry in the church since you are not adhering to the teaching on the sacrament of marriage. If you get married in the church, divorce without meeting the circumstances called for in canon law, take half the marital property, even when the spouse does not want a divorce you will be told it is OK to go to communion. Both abuse the sacrament. We look the other way when friends get divorced and tell them we will pray for them… pastoral… make them feel good while here on earth… Taking weak stands like this contributes to why most Catholics voted for Obama last election… when he was honest about what his plans were for healthcare and abortion.

I would love so hear a straight answer to the questions you asked. You deserve one as do all of us. Of course we know conditions are different for different people (same for murders and child abusers folks…) but someone should be able to determine if when a Catholic, who knows or should know church teaching files for divorce without approval of clergy and has no intention of attempting to reconciling, when no abuse, financial danger or any other threats are present, and the reason stated for divorce is simply irreconcilable differences is sinning. If not then why say divorce is grave matter? When the catechism calls one party innocent is that a mistake? Our actions do not match our teachings. T If a two year old was about to step into traffic we would not pray that they didn’t get hit by a car… we would reach out and grab them… as adults when others put their eternal life at risk most stand by and watch, say a few prayers and pretend they don’t know enough about the situation or their Faith to get involved.
 
The church does allow divorce and separation.

The church does accept “a second marriage” if proper procedure is followed (annulment)

None of these things are remotely appropriate to discuss with first graders though.
That’s was my first reaction to the OP. Why on earth is this discussed in 1St grade?
 
The OP will not give the book. I have seen many many First Grade books and NONE of them even come close to this. I don’t believe it.
Could the OP please give the name of the curriculum. It is not that hard you don’t even have to have it in front of you, if you are opening it and reading it to the kids you know the name.
I flat out do not believe that a first grade religious curriculum discusses this. What I do believe is that teachers can ad lib.
 
Because the book is at school. In the book it discussed sacraments and marriage is one.
 
Because the book is at school. In the book it discussed sacraments and marriage is one.
It’s just kind of weird since people have been asking for a month what the name of the book is.🤷 it almost sounds like the class discussion went off track when discussing sacraments and a bit more was discussed than necessary. I doubt that annulments were covered in the book under sacraments. Not for first grade. No way. Sorry.
 
Because the book is at school. In the book it discussed sacraments and marriage is one.
You have been reading and studying this curriculum for months, read strait out of it to the kids, and have fought with parents about it and don’t even know the name of the book?

I can tell you no book exists. Not in first grade. Perhaps you went to far in depth with kids with Church teaching and are looking for a way to back it up. But no one can help you if you are not honest about the situation.

What is the name of the curriculum that the parish approved and you have been using for months? If you don’t know then perhaps you need to review your educational training. I would be concerned about any teacher of the faith or any subject really that could not cite the name of the curriculum. You are being evasive on this point. Why?
 
Once again people miss my point. My point is that we have to tell the kids divorce is not an issue when it is. The church has been known for being strictly anti divorce unless one has an annulment.
 
Okay, once again, you are missing the point also.

No one believes divorce was even brought up in the text. It is not a sacrament and that’s what is covered in first grade, not divorce. Someone must have talked to first graders about divorce. And annulment. And then all heck broke out when some kid went home and told their parents. So yeah, now to smooth it over, someone else is making another bad decision, and younwantbeveryone here to support your outrage.

Sorry.
 
Once again people miss my point. My point is that we have to tell the kids divorce is not an issue when it is. The church has been known for being strictly anti divorce unless one has an annulment.
Nobody is missing the point.

Here is a post from you from a couple years ago.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11149521#post11149521
in it you state:
We have a book which I use but also supplement it by learning the sacraments and the rosary and prayers.
And I think that is what happened here. And frankly, that is alarming. And it is one of the reasons I homeschool my children. I can and do indeed teaching them heavily about marriage and the Church’s teachings, but the last thing I would want is someone talking to my six or seven year old about is divorce and annulments as seen thought their interpretation.:eek: It is an abuse of the responsibility you are given to go off curriculum on this issue that is is obviously something you are passionate about. Most of your posts have to do with the issue of divorce. And while you may be correct in your assessment for the most part, you are damaging families with your insistence on pushing this issue. As a former Youth Minister, and Catechist myself I can assure you that it is indeed frustrating when the parish seems to cower in the face of parents. And I understand the zeal of wanting to teach the faith and I also understand the frustration especially in this time of confusion about marriage. We are in a Crisis and a time of outright defiance of God and His Church. But you are way out of bounds telling this to small kids who’s parents have been divorced. stick to the Curriculum or you will rightfully be relieved of your service. We also teach first graders about the eight commandment., and we use terminology they can understand. Perhaps you should think about that and what possibly is breaking the 8th commandment in defaming a parish, curriculum and misleading people about the curriculum.

If you want to talk about how the sacrament of marriage is under attack and misunderstood by a good many Catholics who are not educated will in their faith then I am with you 100 percent. But if you wish to inflict pain into little johnny’s life about his parents, then I think what you are doing is downright destructive. But for the sake of a fruitful and honest discussion please, come clean or tell us the name of the book.
 
Right.
The textbook may mention “Sacraments” ( in a rather vague way) and you are to tell them that Sacraments are how we receive GRACE from God.

Here’s a sample of a typical Scope and Sequence for First Grade:

GRADE 1

UNIT 1: We Believe (Creed)
Faith Concepts
  1. Gift of faith; Catholic Church; Bible
  2. God the Creator; Human beings as images of God; God our loving Father
  3. Jesus Son of God; Holy Family; Jesus shared God’s love
  4. Bible; Angels; Annunciation; Faith of Mary
  5. Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus
  6. Old Testament and New Testament; The Gospels; Caring for one another
  7. Holy Trinity; Jesus’ promise of the Holy Spirit; Holy Spirit as our helper; Signs of the Holy Spirit
  8. People of God; Pentecost; Catholic Church; Mary, the greatest saint and other saints of the Church
  9. Life in the early Church; Living as children of God and disciples of Jesus
Catechism of the Catholic Church
80–95, 101–133, 142–175, 232–248, 268–314, 456–478, 484–507, 512–560, 561, 620–621, 629, 656–665, 683–801, 849–852, 1397, 2030–2046

Sacred Scripture
Genesis 1:26–31; 17:4, 15–16 Matthew 28:7 Luke 1:28–38; 2:15–17, 20; 10:30, 33–35; 11:2; 24:1–4, 6 John 13:34; 14:16 Acts 2:1–4; 2:42, 45–47

Faith Vocabulary
Angels; Believe; Bible; Catholic; Christians; Church; Creator; Cross; Disciples; Faith; Holy Family; Holy Spirit; Holy Trinity; Image of God; New Testament; Old Testament; Son of God

Faith-Filled People
Isaac; Saint Anne and Saint Joachim; Saint Catherine of Siena; Saint Mary Magdalene; Saint Patrick; Saint Peter the Apostle

Our Catholic Identity
Candlemas Day; Feast Days; Lord, have mercy; Our Father; Patron saints; The Pope; Prayer of the Faithful; Sign of the Cross; Signs and symbols

Our Church Makes a Difference
The Catholic Church; Caring for God’s world; The Church shares God’s love; The Church honors Mary; Ways the Church uses the Easter candle and other candles; Catholic hospitals; Caring for the sick; Stained-glass windows; All members of the Church work together to tell people about Jesus;
Saint Martin de Porres

Prayer
Sign of the Cross; An act of love; A Psalm prayer: Psalm 1:1–2; Litany to Jesus; A prayer of the faithful;
A prayer to the Holy Spirit; Litany of Saints; A sign
of peace

A person can go all the way to 8th grade and not encounter divorce or annulment as topics for class.
You are playing with fire if you are mentioning divorce and annulments to First graders.
I do not believe that the books in place have anything of the sort in them.
What is your motivation for stirring things up like this?
None of this makes any sense. **I cannot believe that any credible and trained, degreed DRE would allow such to go on. This is an abuse of power. **The vocabulary alone makes this highly suspect.
:tsktsk:
 
Nobody is missing the point.

Here is a post from you from a couple years ago.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11149521#post11149521
in it you state:

And I think that is what happened here. And frankly, that is alarming. And it is one of the reasons I homeschool my children. I can and do indeed teaching them heavily about marriage and the Church’s teachings, but the last thing I would want is someone talking to my six or seven year old about is divorce and annulments as seen thought their interpretation.:eek: It is an abuse of the responsibility you are given to go off curriculum on this issue that is is obviously something you are passionate about. Most of your posts have to do with the issue of divorce. And while you may be correct in your assessment for the most part, you are damaging families with your insistence on pushing this issue. As a former Youth Minister, and Catechist myself I can assure you that it is indeed frustrating when the parish seems to cower in the face of parents. And I understand the zeal of wanting to teach the faith and I also understand the frustration especially in this time of confusion about marriage. We are in a Crisis and a time of outright defiance of God and His Church. But you are way out of bounds telling this to small kids who’s parents have been divorced. stick to the Curriculum or you will rightfully be relieved of your service. We also teach first graders about the eight commandment., and we use terminology they can understand. Perhaps you should think about that and what possibly is breaking the 8th commandment in defaming a parish, curriculum and misleading people about the curriculum.

If you want to talk about how the sacrament of marriage is under attack and misunderstood by a good many Catholics who are not educated will in their faith then I am with you 100 percent. But if you wish to inflict pain into little johnny’s life about his parents, then I think what you are doing is downright destructive. But for the sake of a fruitful and honest discussion please, come clean or tell us the name of the book.
If the parents don’t like it they don’t have to send kids. If the church decides I can’t teach anymore it’s their lose because most of the parents do nothing for the church. Marriage is a sacrament and the book discusses this. Even though society isn’t pro marriage the church is supposed to be.
 
If the parents don’t like it they don’t have to send kids. If the church decides I can’t teach anymore it’s their lose because most of the parents do nothing for the church. Marriage is a sacrament and the book discusses this. Even though society isn’t pro marriage the church is supposed to be.
You know what? You have a real chip on your shoulder. How flippant of you to assume that parents should just stop sending their childepren because you have some sort of twisted agenda that is NOT part of the first grade text. You know what you are doing is wrong by your resistance to naming the text for us that have asked. You are not following what the Church teaches to first graders, because they are hearing about divorce and annulments which NOT in the text. You are teaching what you have made your own personal mission. I believe you have a personal vendetta against divorced parents and you wish to punish them.

If I knew where you taught, I would report you to the diocese. It would be no loss to anyone if you stopped teaching despite what you believe.
 
**
You know what? You have a real chip on your shoulder. How flippant of you to assume that parents should just stop sending their childepren because you have some sort of twisted agenda that is NOT part of the first grade text. You know what you are doing is wrong by your resistance to naming the text for us that have asked. You are not following what the Church teaches to first graders, because they are hearing about divorce and annulments which NOT in the text. You are teaching what you have made your own personal mission. I believe you have a personal vendetta against divorced parents and you wish to punish them.

If I knew where you taught, I would report you to the diocese. It would be no loss to anyone if you stopped teaching despite what you believe.
I teach what is the views of the church. Way too many people complain yet they refuse to help. Maybe I should tell the kids that gay marriage is acceptable according to the church just because a kid might have gay parents. That would never be acceptable. Your other comments are personal attacks. I have repeatedly said that the parents want us to teach divorce is acceptable.
 
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