Temple Endowment

[GoLatin]

Let’s say that an adult converts to the LDS Church.

After baptism, assuming that the person does everything that he needs to do, in a timely manner, how long is it before he gets endowed in the temple?

I understand that there is a lot that needs to be done.

 

[ben_dy]

GoLatin:

Let’s say that an adult converts to the LDS Church.

After baptism, assuming that the person does everything that he needs to do, in a timely manner, how long is it before he gets endowed in the temple?

I understand that there is a lot that needs to be done.

One year is what I understood from my missionary friends but let us hope some of our LDS friends will step in and verify. The reasoning was very good and there might be ‘exceptions’ to the rule: one negative exception, for instance, would be that you took up your old habits of smoking and drinking - even waiting a year if you do those things is not going to get you in line for a temple recommend! On the other hand, if you’ve proven yourself worthy over a 10-11 month period of time, you may (and I emphasize may because I don’t know if this would or has ever occur(red)) be able to receive a temple recommend for some extraordinary reason.

I’m not certain by what you mean in “there is a lot to be done”? Do you mean temple ordinations after baptism? Or preparing for temple endowments?

It seems that our LDS friends haven’t been around much lately - or they’re having the same difficulty as I in finding LDS messages now that there is no longer a LDS sub-forum - but, with luck, one will be able to answer this question.

 

[BJRumph]

One year MINIMUM. this is a policy thing, and I am unaware of any exeptions (for what that is worth), as even “death” or terminal illness is a moot point due to vicarious work for the dead.

The only things that must be done is follow the church’s teachings. If your bishop was like mine when I joined, he will provide you with a copy of the Recommend questions, so you can see what is required. Simple stuff really, if you are serious about your conversion. Pay your tithing, no drinking or drugs, be good to your fellow man, sustain your preisthood leaders as being your leaders, ect.

But again, I have never heard of there being an exception to the one-year rule for temple ordinances, but I was only a mormon for 9 years, so I certainly haven’t heard it all.

hope it helps.

Inter arma caritas

 

[ben_dy]

BJRumph:

One year MINIMUM. this is a policy thing, and I am unaware of any exeptions (for what that is worth), as even “death” or terminal illness is a moot point due to vicarious work for the dead.

I was thinking that I was remembering correctly - but not so confident that I was remembering correctly - that I was told early on in the discussions (after my missionaries found that I has lost my wife and son some years back) that I was told how wonderful it would be to be sealed with my wife and son for all eternity… but that I would have to wait a year before I could begin that process. When I asked, “what if something happens to me if I die?” I was told that I, and all my ancestors (I’m a genealogy buff and the ‘boys’ were impressed that I had been able to trace my maternal lineage to 12th century Wales and my paternal to 16th century Eastern Europe) could be sealed by others after I died, even if I had not received an endowment. From what I understand - and LDS folks, please correct me if I am wrong - there are droves of volunteers who do the work for the dead. I had made some sort of comment to the effect that if I did convert and get my temple recommend that the rest of my life would be spent in a temple having all my ancestors sealed to one another but I was assured that the work could be divided amongst temples and others would ‘stand in’ for all baptisms, sealings, etc.

BJRumph:

The only things that must be done is follow the church’s teachings. If your bishop was like mine when I joined, he will provide you with a copy of the Recommend questions, so you can see what is required. Simple stuff really, if you are serious about your conversion. Pay your tithing, no drinking or drugs, be good to your fellow man, sustain your preisthood leaders as being your leaders, ect.

But again, I have never heard of there being an exception to the one-year rule for temple ordinances, but I was only a mormon for 9 years, so I certainly haven’t heard it all.

hope it helps.

Inter arma caritas

Uh,Hmm. I don’t know if I was supposed to have gotten a copy of the recommend questions but I did, along with the basic baptism questions. I’m hoping that as I begin the process of packing to move (or in supervising folks to pack for me, I suppose I should say!) I’ll run across all that material.

I certainly hope all of our LDS friends didn’t get “lost in the move” = haven’t heard from many in the past couple of days and now I’m back home and, although bedridden, have full use of both hands so I can type with fewer errors (I hope) than when hospitalized!

 

[BJRumph]

Here is a link to the current (supposedly) TR questions.

Not plugging the rest of the site, but the questions here seem correct, as I recall (though it has been over a year now since my last TR interveiw, and so doesn’t rule out some malicious change that I didn’t catch in my breif perusal after the Google).

As can be seen, nothing terribly controversial for a faithful “True Beleiver/ing” mormon, who are the only ones who are supposed to be getting this recommend.

Hope it helps.

Inter arma caritas

 

[BJRumph]

in the FWIW category, I am not sure that I was supposed to get them when I did; but the bishop (Branch President to be more accurate) gave them to me to carry around with me to think about as a guide/tool in my post-baptismal lds “formation” (to borrow a Catholic phrase).

While I certainly don’t think it is a “secret” per se, I have definately gotten the feeling from some of the bishops I’ve dealt with that they would never consider giving out such a thing.

I guess it is not unlike in Masonry; what is an actual “secret” is a very small portion of the work, and so some tell about everything else; wereas others are virtually unwilling to talk about anything outside of the base admission that they are a mason. And that is without considering the more philosophical types, who say nothing that can be told is the True secret of masonry, as the real secrets of masonry are ineffible.

 

[ben_dy]

Here is a link to the current (supposedly) TR questions.

Not plugging the rest of the site, but the questions here seem correct, as I recall (though it has been over a year now since my last TR interveiw, and so doesn’t rule out some malicious change that I didn’t catch in my breif perusal after the Google).

As can be seen, nothing terribly controversial for a faithful “True Beleiver/ing” mormon, who are the only ones who are supposed to be getting this recommend.

Hope it helps.

Inter arma caritas

That’s very much as I recall: although I received the list over two years ago, read it - perhaps - two or three times, and the statement at the website says that it is a “new” questionnaire.

Although… Q #7 looks a bit ‘tricky’ and I would think that I would have asked about the wording (but, then again, there was no way I was going to get to the point of having these questions asked of me, so I might have paid it no heed at the time). But when I read it now:

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

I think - hmm… now if I were to decide to stop wallowing in widowhood and do something crazy like marry again and one of the questions asked me before a wedding date could be scheduled for the church read something like…

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Catholic Church?

…I would have to honestly answer, “yes, I am affiliated with individuals whose practice are contrary to teachings of the Catholic Church. Indeed, I am. Some of my best friends. I don’t agree with their views, and I can’t say I respect their views, but I respect them.”

So it’s likely a very good thing that I am not LDS.

 

[Brad_Haas]

Imagine how my LDS girlfriend feels when asked that question…

 

[BJRumph]

Actually, that was always the one I had to struggle with as well.

See, when I became a mormon, I was also a member of the Rosicrucian Order, AMORC; so I had to get the BP and SP to elaborate on that one, as while they weren’t actively “Anti-mormon”, they certainly held veiws which are contrary to the basic understanding of mormon theology (though naturally, of course, I saw no actual disparity, but I digress…).

When expanded upon, it came down to whether or not the organization actively worked against the church. As I did not see a conflict within my own understanding, then I was OK.

Ironically, this does not appear to be substantially different in how some American Bishops responded to the new canons (issued in '83) that replaced the specific mention of Masonry with organizations that are directly anti-catholic (13-something or other, cant remember at the moment), causing all the controversy back in the '80s that suggested that Catholics could become Masons after all. Of course, (then) Cardinal Ratzinger nipped that in the bud…(as in, No, Catholics cannot become Masons).

Again, I am not sure if how they (the local presidents) handled it was what Salt Lake intends with this particular question, but that is how it was done in my case at any rate. A literal interpretation of this particular question would be very isolating of the member from Society at large.

 

[BJRumph]

Fortunately Ben_dy, I don’t think that the Catholic Church currently holds its members to such a standard

 

[amgid]

ben_dy:

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

This does not mean that anybody that has a non-Mormon wife, husband, relative or friend is thus disqualified from going to the temple. There are thousands of LDS with non-LDS wives, husbands, close relatives, friends, and neighbors that have temple recommends.

amgid

 

[majick275]

What this question really asks is if the individual is an “apostate” or apostate sympathizer. It’s not intended to disqualify people with non-believing friends or family but rather to keep out the folks who might be trying to go to the temple in spite of not accepting the authority of the SLC CoJCoLDS.

Some of the FLDS types (there are a number of schismatic groups claiming to be the “real” LDS church) try to go to the Temples to get “sealed” to their plural wives and other such things. Some folks decide to leave the LDS church and get involved with “anti” groups and try to record temple ceremonies and such stuff.

 

[ben_dy]

amgid:

This does not mean that anybody that has a non-Mormon wife, husband, relative or friend is thus disqualified from going to the temple. There are thousands of LDS with non-LDS wives, husbands, close relatives, friends, and neighbors that have temple recommends.

amgid

Now see - here, again, I learn something that I did not know and wouldn’t even have asked because I just assumed that if you had a non-Mormon spouse you would not be able to get a temple recommend!

amgid, if this question doesn’t fall into the secrets of the temple: is proxy work usually done by family members or, if family members are unable, volunteers? Say folks who are retired? I was just wondering because of what was said in my situation where I have thousands upon thousands (I would estimate almost 10,000+ easily counting my non-direct lineage ancestors) of ancestors in my genealogy work.

 

[ben_dy]

majick275:

What this question really asks is if the individual is an “apostate” or apostate sympathizer. It’s not intended to disqualify people with non-believing friends or family but rather to keep out the folks who might be trying to go to the temple in spite of not accepting the authority of the SLC CoJCoLDS.

Some of the FLDS types (there are a number of schismatic groups claiming to be the “real” LDS church) try to go to the Temples to get “sealed” to their plural wives and other such things. Some folks decide to leave the LDS church and get involved with “anti” groups and try to record temple ceremonies and such stuff.

I’ve seen - on some of the antiMormon sites - mp3 files and ‘transcripts’ from ‘actual recordings’ of various temple ceremonies and while I’ve read the transcripts I’ve never listened to the mp3 files… I tend to think of the latter as a greater invasion of privacy (hypocritical reasoning? Maybe… but then I’ve always preferred reading the text of the Nixon tapes as they’re released because someone else has gone to the trouble of attempting to decipher what may be garbled).

I don’t quite understand how an FLDS could become sealed to a plural wife, though - with all the technology that the LDS church uses, would they be able to see that “Brigham Smith” with SS#444-44-4444 had already been sealed in the NYC Temple and was now attempting to be sealed in the Provo Temple?

 

[majick275]

if i may,
Family members are able and in fact are encouraged to perform ordinances for their departed kin. They are not required to though. Anyone going through the Temple after their first time (which is their own ordinances) does work for and on behalf of someone else. Ususally folks just take the next name waiting at the Temple. Turning in names based on geneology research is considered part of “reedeeming the dead” and provides LDS Temples with names for the patrons to proxy for. Many LDS Temple workers are in fact retired volunteers but it is not uncommon to see a variety of folks going through at any particlar time. Obviously it would be unrealistic to think that every person ever born could have these ordinances performed for them by the handful of Mormons who actually go to the Temple. Mormons beleive that during the millenium they will have the opportunity to catch up on anyone they missed.

 

[amgid]

ben_dy:

Now see - here, again, I learn something that I did not know and wouldn’t even have asked because I just assumed that if you had a non-Mormon spouse you would not be able to get a temple recommend!

If you want the rules on that more accurately spelled out, they are as follows: if an LDS woman is married to a non-LDS man, then she would have to obtain permission from her (non-LDS) husband to go to the temple. If he doesn’t want her to go, and refuses to give his permission, then she can’t go, even if she fulfills all the other requirements. But if an LDS man is married to a non-LDS woman, he will not be subject to the same rule. He can obtain a temple recommend provided he can answer the questions satisfactorily.

amgid, if this question doesn’t fall into the secrets of the temple: is proxy work usually done by family members or, if family members are unable, volunteers? Say folks who are retired? I was just wondering because of what was said in my situation where I have thousands upon thousands (I would estimate almost 10,000+ easily counting my non-direct lineage ancestors) of ancestors in my genealogy work.

Let me first congratulate you on your genealogy work. That is an inspired work, and would be the envy of many a faithful LDS! The answer to your question is that anybody (with a temple recommend) can do the proxy work; it does not necessarily have to be by family members.

There are two ways that genealogical data that are submitted to temples for proxy work: they are called “family file” and “temple file”. “Family file” are those names of your own ancestors which you have researched and prepared yourself (as a Church member), and which you submit to the temple for proxy work. They have the priority, and you would have the complete control over who does the proxy work for them. You can either attend to it yourself (if you have a recommend), or you can ask someone else to do it (or any part of it) for you. “Temple file,” on the other hand, are the names of diseased persons which the Church itself has extracted and prepared for proxy work, subject to certain guidelines, and submitted to the temples. If you really wanted the proxy work to be done for your ancestors even while you are not a member of the Church, that may be possible, I am not absolutely certain at the moment. It would probably have to be done as “temple file”. You would not have the privilege of doing it yourself, as you are not a member of the Church; but others would be doing it for you. Alternatively, it may be possible to submit them as “family file,” provided that you have LDS friends or relatives who would be willing to accept the responsibility of doing it on your behalf. You would have to talk to your local bishop to see if that is possible. If he doesn’t know, he can always find out for you.

But before you can do any of these things, however—even if you were a member of the Church—you would have some work to do to prepare those names for submission to the temple. That will require quite a bit of work, especially if you have a large number of names, as you say you do. The Church has created a special software to enable you to do that. It is called Personal Ancestral File, or PAF for short. I believe the latest version of it is PAF5. You can download it from the Church’s website. You can also download a set of interactive lessons which teach you how to use it. There is also an instruction manual in PDF form that you can download and print out, which teaches you how to use it. It is quite easy to use. Download all three, and then install PAF5 first, followed by the “lessons,” on your PC, and you are ready to go. You will have to enter your data into the computer using that software, and save it as a computer file. Then you would take that file to the temple for it to be processed for temple work.

(Continued in the next post…)

amgid

 

[amgid]

(Continued from the previous post…)

As your genealogical work is extensive, chances are that some of your ancestral lines merge into somebody else’s, and therefore some of the work may have already have been done by others. The Church maintains an up-to-date database of all the temple work that has already been done, at the temples and at LDS Family History Centers. You can take file you have prepared to such centers to have it checked to see if some of it has already been done or not—and by whom! So you may discover family connections to yourself that you knew nothing about! LDS Family History Centers are very useful for this kind of research. There are also knowledgeable people there who can assist or advise you. Talk to your local LDS bishop and LDS friends and they can tell you more. Try posting your questions on FAIR board. There are lots of LDS there who know more about this kind of thing than I do, and can tell you more.

If you don’t want to join the LDS Church, but still want this kind of work to be done for your deceased ancestors, I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t be able to. But you need to get to know LDS, and make friends with them, so you can ask them to do it for you. That is an easy thing to do. LDS are a friendly lot, and they love helping people, especially in this kind of work. If you attend the LDS Church occasionally, nobody is going to force you to join. But you will get to know the members and the bishopric, and you can ask them to help you out.

amgid

 

[Brad_Haas]

Is it possible for me to ensure that the work will never be done for me after I’m dead?

 

[amgid]

Brad Haas:

Is it possible for me to ensure that the work will never be done for me after I’m dead?

The answer to that is actually no! Once you are dead, you are done with the affairs of this life, and you have no more control over what happens in it. You can leave a will, but that only have a limited application. Genghis Khan no longer has any control over what people do with his name here on earth. However, I am assured that in your case it wouldn’t make any difference; because your fate will have already been sealed by the time you are dead:

Alma 34:

32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
amgid

 

[majick275]

But since alma was a figment of JS imagination and the BoM is a piece of fiction fabricated by a womanizing con man then all o fthis academic. The necromantic rituals performed in LDS “temples” do not accomlpish anything other than the damnation of those who perform them so you needn’t worry.